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windsurferlawman

Gill net found on Winnie with rotten fish!

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I am not a everyday religous type person, but, "let he who has no sin cast the first stone."

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dave,
i think the biggest difference between natives netting and commercial fishermen netting is that any one can become a commercial fisherman if they pay the licensing fees and buy the equiptment while natives netting is based strictly on race... meaning it is racist. the whole point is it should be equal oppertunities to all... this is america. it seems unfair to me that because of race some are entitled to do things that other races are not just as it would be unfair to treat an ethnic group differently because of there heritage. it seems to me that the natives want to enjoy all that america stands for and also enjoy their native "rights" i think they should have the right to do that but if that is the case they should have to stay in their country unless they have proper documentation or work visas, they should be treated no differently than mexicans or people from any other country. as for the bands that choose to not let outsiders fish their waters... treat them as they treat us... they should not be allowed to do anything off of the reservation. if i am not mistaken one of the biggest issues that natives had with the early white settlers was that noone could own the land or water, it was provided for all to use responsibly, by god. this is as rediculouse as the border debate between north dakota and minnesota. people act like third graders... if you dont let me play with your toy then you cant play with mine!

------------------
a bad day at the lake is better than a good day at work

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I rarely enter a debate as this (usually just a reader) but on the previous page Long Gray Line brought up a point that has not been addressed that I personally see as part of the problem.
The problem as I see it is perception.
An Anglo sees this act of wasting the netted fish as going "unpunished" because of the way the tribal council seems to keep punishments (if any) for this type of thing under wraps. Or are we only perceiving it as being kept quiet-- I don't know if they allow this information to come out?? All I know is that I never hear about it.

Whereas when anyone else gets busted (Anglos, Asians or whatever) for say an over limit violation we hear about it and they get fined or punished-- probably not enough $ but they do get punished and we do get to hear about it.

So do people get angry because they ONLY PERCEIVE that nothing is being done to punish this individual when they are being punished but we don’t hear about it --or is actually nothing being done???
That is what I am unsure of. I am trying to not let this perception get the best of me and that is why I am asking.

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Lets get back to the facts;

Yes there was a net .
Yes the net was not being tended.
Yes it is legal to net on reservation waters by band members.
Yes it was reported.
The DNR is aware of the incident.
The proper authorities Tribal Game COs are aware of it.
Let them do their jobs and followup on it.
If your not happy with the results address it through proper channels.
Stop beating unrelated issues to death here.
If you wish to address social morays, political opinions or whatever else this is not the place.
Finger pointing and blaming goes no where. And yes for those doubters out there as former tribal Police Officer it will be addressed by Law Enforcement. Stop comparing Bands laws and regulations they vary from band to band tribe to tribe and state and state. Lets get back to fishing or open another forum for this type of discussion.
For myself how about the Lake erie spinner rig system for catching eyes during a mayfly hatch?

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B-Bear,

I believe that human perception is probably the most dangerous trait we posess.

Our fears, hate, love all revolve around our perceptions--founded or un-founded.

If we follow this thread from the beginning, we can easily see how each of our perceptions of this issue color our level of response and response content.

Why in the world do so many of us get bent out of shape when we precieve things as being un-fair?

Somehow someone in our lives--parents, clergy, politicians and society in general short-changed us by telling us that un-fairness is bad and that when we feel something is un-fair we have a right to demand it be changed to meet our perception of what is fair and if our demands are un-met we have license to crucify the perpetrator(s)!

I can choose to look at almost anything in the World and percieve that it's un-fair if I can't "benefit" from it, or "get mine too".

Look at how the rich and powerful of this world are scorned by those who aren't rich and powerful--its the same with the radical Islamists--they percieve all of us are bad because we live differently than they do.

Their inability to think for themselves, and most importantly, empower themselves to change their perceptions of us makes them very dangerous.

I believe we call this insanity grin.gif

My point is--if we work at removing our perceptions from situations that occur e.g. (the net full of rotten fish), we free our minds to search for solutions rather than retribution and placing blame.

Clearly something went wrong with the net and clearly netting is non-selective and wasteful; but most of all, we need to work with the Bands to resolve (and hopefully change) current laws so that there can be peace and at least less waste for all of us.

Thanks for letting me "Philisophicalize"!

------------------
Chells

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My opinion is a bit off topic but all I have to say is that walleye fishing has gone into the tank all over the state, not just the lakes that the tribes net. There was a time, not so long ago, when you could go out with a 75% chance of limiting out on eye's. Now, I would say, you have might have a 10% to 15% chanceand I think those are on the higher end (now I am not saying that you should limit out but the ability was there). I say forget about trying to get the state to do anything about the netting and focus on something more realistic, like what they can do about the non-native fishing. I am a big believer that unless we take dramatic steps, our fishing will not be any better here than in any other state (which might be true already). Those steps, I believe, include a reduced limit, more lake by lake regs, higher fees, shorter season and in some cases closed lakes for fishing like on Red.

JegerJack

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"What did the old man trade for these guys, a used puck bag?"

[This message has been edited by jegerjack (edited 06-18-2004).]

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If I understand the Soveriegn Nation thing correctly they are not really part of the US, but a seperate nation and government unto themselves. Which means our laws and rules don't apply to them any more than our rules and laws would apply to Canada or Mexico. That would also mean that the land or water is theirs to do with as they please, for good or bad.

I do find netting and waste disturbing, but if they want to make a mess of their resources it is their business. It is not really our land or water, but theirs and our government has absolutely no jurisdiction if it on their land.

We can sit here and complain about netting and waste till the end of time, we can write our congressman, we can call the DNR or even President Bush and it will have no affect unless the leaders of this Soveriegn Nation take some action to stop this themselves. It is not land ruled or governed by the good old US of A.

Just my take on the situation grin.gif

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******* I think? you're right.

That is why I think we need to work with them ( other states, bands, countries) on border waters where we'd both have an interest. Sometimes that is easier said than done, but I hope in the long run agreements (comprimises) will be made.

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GRIZ

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up north, You make a good point however you have to admit that the fish dont know who's water there swimming in.. When half a lake is on "our" land and half is on "there" land..Its not like netting on one side of the lake means only one side of the lake looses fish. Also, if I'm not mistaken N.A.'s are allowed to net on non-tribal waters as long as they get a permit...the same permit that a non-native is not able to get for non-tribal waters.

By the way, The computer thinks your name is a swear word so it ******'s it out?!?
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I'd rather be fishing and think about church, than be at church and thinking about fishing!

[This message has been edited by sirlips (edited 06-19-2004).]

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Dave-

Yeah, they are on the reservation, but they are not sovereign in that they are their own country, so to speak such as Red Lake.

Red Lake is sovereign in that our state police and county sheriffs department have no jurisdiction. If a criminal was hiding out in Red Lake the RL police would have to extradite them to the boundary, where the arresting department would then take custody of the prisoner.

michael

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quote:

windsurferlawman
wrote...

Red Lake is soverign, as you say- but Leech Lake, Mille Lacs and Winnie are not!

windsurferlawman...Leech and Winnibigoshish are inside the Leech Lake reservation boundries. Dont believe me? Click the link below and see.

Leech Lake Reservation Boundries

[This message has been edited by DavidH (edited 06-19-2004).]

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Funny thing is you all complain about netting. I bet you anything it's only because it's your precious walleye, northern, bass whatever you want to lump into the gamefish group. If this was carps, sucker, gars, bowfins, bullheads buffalo, etc, it'll get brushed off so fast it's like this thread never existed. I remember a post awhile back about carps and suckers being netted out of the St. Croix down by Prescott. Everybody cheered and jumped for joy and in the back of your mind you're thinking " yes, get rid off those roughfish so our walleye's, bass, northerns, etc can flourish" . That topic didn't go 2pg. My .02 .

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How do you like that I am listed as cuss word smile.gif

windsurferlawman,

I am not positive about this, but I do believe that the other reservations could have been like Red Lake, but they have sold off some of the land and it would make it difficult to keep others completely out. Still, on reservation land and waters they(reservation residents) live by their rules not ours.

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Yeah,

I am a little surprised that > north is a swear word! lol

As far as the netting of a particular spesies of fish, it is not the same. If one person is able to net a fish, then the rest should be able to as well. This is not our preciouos Walleye. This is about equal rights, wanton waste, and right and wrong!

I lived in Alaksa off and on for a number of years and I am all for the comercial fishing up there. You have to know though that up there comercial fishing is more closely regulated thananything else.

I know a Conservation Officer who actually rides right with the comercial fishermen as they are netting fish. can you imagine the uproar the natives would be making if a CO wanted to ride in one of their boats while they netted???

Also, Alaska has the numbers of fish to support the netting. I have been told by several fishermen that they could actually net 95% of all Salmon in any year if they were allowed to net as they wanted.

They use planes to spot the schools then surround them and get them with a purse seiner. They net the enitre school!

Take one look at Red Lake or Leech and tell me that netting does not have a negative effect!

Michael

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Sorry Dave H,

Can't do it and if we could why should we?

Show me one lake in MN where you can catch as many 28"-30" Walleye as Mille Lacs--

Mille Lacs, Winnie, and leech should all be in the top ten in the us for Walleye and they could be with the proper management.

Why do you think there are no more pro-am tournaments on Mille Lacs? Because the Natives have it so messed up with the slot size! There is hope now with the 20-22" changes this year, but there is a long ways to go- sill, look at how many boats came in for the wave wacker with zero weigh fish, yet they caught tons!

Michael

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I agree. So many of the smaller lakes do not have strong walleye populations like some of the big ones like Mille Lacs and Lake of the Woods. You don't have to worry so much about the pressure on the larger lakes. The other thing is Mille Lacs has very few pleasure boaters and water skiiers because of the rough waters. Not like Minnetonka where it is difficult to fish during the weekends.

Mille Lacs is regarded nationally as a world class fishery within an hour of the Twin Cities.

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All reservations have some form of sovreignty and yes are still subject to some legislation at both state and federal. Mostly dealing with criminal acts. however the amount of state and federal impact is limeted by band, tribe, tribal constitution and past treatys. Redlake is different due to the that they are th eonly purely sovereign tribal nation there they do not have to comply with state jurisdiction. they have the option but they are still subject to some federal jurisdiction and authority.

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Funny all the complaints about Natives fishing/netting/spearing Red lake, Leech and Winnie and there are over 10,000 lakes here in Minnesota. Surely one can find another lake to fish on where there is no Native fishing/netting/spearing.

Or are there ulterior motives to some of these complaints?

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If the Red lake is truly sovereign, can I buy my cigs, gas and booze, without having to pay any fed or state taxes?

Just curious.

Windsurfer...glad you found this site. See ya around the TS site. How close are you to the Brainerd area. I'm just north of Pine River

Doug

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It's dry res. so you can't buy your booze there. I don't think they pay state sales tax though. There is a commercial for a repair shop that has a trailer at the end stating "and you always save 6.5%"

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I would like to point out just so people know that all netters aren't from the Res. Mille Lacs used to have a gill-netting season for Whitefish/Tulibees and my dad and I netted it. Was quite a fun experience.......except when someone snagged a net while trolling and thought it would be fun to drop it off a 20' foot hole. Of course they thought they were saving the fish of course you drop it in that depth and all it will catch is Eyes. My dad went out and drug his anchor until he snagged it. See some of us netters do care about where our nets end up.

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Tight Lines,
JP Z

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The only comments I wanted to make, are sticking to the actual subject. Although it would appear that the owner of the net found on Winnie & shown in the picture was a negligent slob regardless of race, we don't know that's for sure the case. Now maybe someone knows the guy & knows the circumstances, but how do we know he didn't have a heart attack or some one in his family get deathly ill, etc. & he hasn't even remembered or been capable of remembering that he put a net out? Here's another possibility too, someone didn't like the guy for some reason, so they moved it to another spot & set it up just like he would have set it, so it looks like negligence, yet he doesn't even know where it is.

What makes me think of this scenario is I once had a 4 X 6 permanent fishhouse on runners, that was very light. I came out to go fishing on Saturday afternoon & it wasn't there. In the past that house had blown accross the lakes if we got like 40+ mph winds during a thaw, but this wasn't the case. I reported it stolen & like two days later received a fine for have my fish house on the lake without my name or driver's license # on it, the citation was from 5 days "before" I even knew it was missing. The first thing I asked the CO was, "Where is the fish house?" He tells me it's on a different lake less than a mile from the one it had been on. I went & checked it out, sure enough it had been bashed in, the insides burned, & my name sign ripped off. It took some convincing, but I did get them to drop the fine. Anyway I'm just saying it's possible this net isn't this guy's fault.

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