Puppy Food Question

[JK22]

Hello, I just picked up a 8 week old lab last week. The breeder was feeding him Diamond Puppy Food. I do not know anything about the Diamond product. I wanted to keep him on it for a while but wondering what to do after I use the first bag.

Mainly looking for some comments on this product.

[FCspringer]

It's an OK product, if you switch just mix 50-50 for a week or 2 and then switch. My feeling is there is better, but it is not bad either. I depends on how certain dogs do on any food really. If you want to look at a bunch, well all really, go to [Note from Admin: Please read forum policy before posting again.].com and there it is all spelled out. A rating for all foods. It is 4 star there. I don't think they left out too many manufactures.

[MuleShack]

FC, that site is pretty interesting.

I find it ironic that the "top" advertized brands were only in the first, second and third tiers (or lower half of the ratings) such as Purina, Iams and Eukanuba and Diamond.

Here is their description of Diamond:

After reading it, I wish I hadn't

Rating:

Diamond dry dog food receives the Advisor’s below-average rating of two stars.

The Diamond product line lists six dry dog foods… four designed to meet AAFCO nutrient profiles for adult maintenance and two for all life stages (Puppy and Premium Adult).

■Diamond Maintenance Adult Formula

■Diamond Premium Adult Formula

■Diamond Performance Formula

■Diamond Hi-Energy Formula

■Diamond Original Formula

■Diamond Puppy Formula

Diamond Premium Adult dry dog food was selected to represent the others in the line for this review.

The first ingredient in this dog food is chicken by-product meal… a dry rendered product of slaughterhouse waste. It’s made from what’s left of a slaughtered chicken after all the prime cuts have been removed.

In a nutshell, chicken by-products are those unsavory leftovers usually considered “unfit for human consumption”.

This stuff can contain almost anything… feet, beaks, undeveloped eggs… anything (that is) but skeletal muscle (real meat).

On the brighter side, by-product meals are meat concentrates and contain nearly 300% more protein than fresh chicken.

The next two ingredients are corn and wheat. Now, contrary to what you may have heard, corn and wheat aren’t necessarily bad ingredients.

However, although there’s no way to know for sure here, the corn and wheat used in making many pet foods can be similar to the kind used to make feed for livestock.

And that can sometimes be problematic.

What’s more, corn and wheat are commonly linked to canine food allergies1.

For this reason, we rarely consider these two grains to be preferred components in any dog food.

The fourth ingredient is chicken fat. Chicken fat is obtained from rendering chicken… a process similar to making soup in which the fat itself is skimmed from the surface of the liquid.

Chicken fat is high in linoleic acid… an omega-6 fatty acid essential for life. Although it doesn’t sound very appetizing, chicken fat is actually a quality ingredient.

The fifth item lists brewers rice. Brewers rice represents the small grain fragments left over after milling whole rice.

This is an inexpensive cereal grain by-product and not considered a quality ingredient.

The sixth ingredient lists beet pulp. Beet pulp is a controversial ingredient… a high fiber by-product of sugar beet processing.

Some denounce beet pulp as an inexpensive filler while others cite its outstanding intestinal health and blood sugar benefits.

We only call your attention here to the controversy and believe the inclusion of beet pulp in reasonable amounts in most dog foods is entirely acceptable.

The seventh ingredient is dried egg product… a dehydrated form of shell-free eggs. Quality can vary significantly. Lower grade egg product can even come from commercial hatcheries… from eggs that have failed to hatch.

In any case, eggs are easy to digest and have an exceptionally high biological value.

The eighth ingredient is flaxseed… one of the best plant sources of healthy omega-3 fatty acids. Flax seeds are rich in soluble fiber.

However, we find it unusual to see flaxseed here in its whole seed form. Whole flax seeds are almost impossible to digest (at least for us humans) unless they are first ground to a usable meal before they’re consumed.

Following the natural chicken flavor, we find fish meal… another high-protein meat concentrate.

Unfortunately, this particular item is anonymous. The term “fish” does little to properly describe this ingredient. What species? What parts?

Fish meal is commonly made from the by-products of commercial fish operations.

We are pleased to note that, unlike many fish meals, this particular item2 appears to be ethoxyquin-free.

In checking the list, we find no evidence of probiotics… friendly bacteria applied to the surface of the kibble after processing.

Finally, this food contains chelated minerals… minerals that have been chemically attached to protein. This makes them easier to absorb. Chelated minerals are usually found in better dog foods.

Diamond Dry Dog Food

The Bottom Line

Judging by its ingredients alone, Diamond dog food appears to be an average kibble.

But ingredient quality by itself cannot tell the whole story. We still need to estimate the product’s meat content before determining a final rating.

The dashboard displays a dry matter protein reading of 29%, a fat level of 20% and an estimated carbohydrate content of 43%.

As a group, the brand features an average protein content of 29% and an average fat level of 19%. Together, these figures suggest a carbohydrate serving size of 44% for the overall product line.

Average protein. Above-average fat. And below-average carbs… as compared to a typical dry dog food.

With no evidence of any plant-based protein boosters, this looks like the profile of a kibble containing an average amount of meat.

Bottom line?

Diamond dry dog food is primarily a grain-based kibble using a moderate amount of meat or chicken by-product meal as its main sources of animal protein… thus earning the brand two stars.

Not recommended.

Those looking for a better quality kibble from the same company may wish to visit our review of Diamond Naturals dry dog food.

A Final Word

This review is designed to help you make a more informed decision when buying dog food. However, our rating system is not intended to suggest feeding a particular product will result in specific health benefits for your pet.

For a better understanding of how we analyzed this product, please be sure to read our article, “The Problem with Dog Food Reviews”

Remember, no dog food can possibly be appropriate for every life stage, lifestyle or health condition. So, choose wisely. And when in doubt consult a veterinarian for help.

[MuleShack]

Here is a rating for Nutri Source. It has an average price tag, but rates in the upper tier.

NutriSource Grain Free (Dry)

Rating:

NutriSource Grain Free dog food gets the Advisor’s second-highest rating of four stars.

The NutriSource Grain Free product line lists four dry dog foods… each meeting AAFCO nutrient profiles for all life stages.

■NutriSource Grain Free Chicken Formula

■NutriSource Grain Free Lamb Meal Formula

■NutriSource Grain Free Large Breed Lamb Formula

■NutriSource Grain Free Large Breed Chicken Formula

NutriSource Grain Free Chicken Formula was selected to represent the others in the line for this review.

Ingredients: Chicken, chicken meal, peas, pea starch, pea flour, chicken fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols and citric acid), natural flavors, salmon meal (a source of fish oil), tomato pomace, dried egg product, potassium chloride, sunflower oil, brewers yeast, salt, minerals (zinc proteinate, iron proteinate, copper proteinate, manganese proteinate, cobalt proteinate, selenium yeast), yeast culture (Saccharomyces cerevisiae, Enterococcus faecium, Lactobacillus acidophilus, Aspergillus niger, Bacillus subtillis), taurine, vitamins (vitamin a acetate, vitamin D3 supplement, vitamin E supplement, niacin, d-calcium pantothenate, thiamine mononitrate, pyridoxine hydrochloride, riboflavin supplement, folic acid, biotin, vitamin B12 supplement), glucosamine hydrochloride, ascorbic acid (vitamin C), choline chloride, chondroitin sulfate, Yucca schidigera extract, calcium iodate, rosemary extract

Fiber (estimated dry matter content) = 5.6%

Red items when present indicate controversial ingredients

The first ingredient in this dog food lists chicken. Although it is a quality item, raw chicken contains about 80% water. After cooking, most of that moisture is lost… reducing the meat content to just a fraction of its original weight.

After processing, this item would probably occupy a lower position on the list.

Which brings us to chicken meal… the second and (more likely) the dominant meat ingredient in this dog food.

The second ingredient is chicken meal. Chicken meal is considered a meat concentrate and contains nearly 300% more protein than fresh chicken.

The third ingredient mentions peas. Peas are a quality source of carbohydrates. Plus (like all legumes) they’re rich in natural fiber.

The fourth ingredient lists pea starch… a paste-like carbohydrate extract probably used here as a gel-like binder for making kibble.

The fifth ingredient lists pea flour… a powder made from roasted yellow peas. Pea flour makes a healthy substitute for wheat and supports more stable blood sugar levels.

The sixth ingredient is chicken fat. Chicken fat is obtained from rendering chicken… a process similar to making soup in which the fat itself is skimmed from the surface of the liquid.

Chicken fat is high in linoleic acid… an omega-6 fatty acid essential for life. Although it doesn’t sound very appetizing, chicken fat is actually a quality ingredient.

After the natural flavors, we find salmon meal. Like chicken meal, salmon meal is considered another high protein meat concentrate.

We are pleased to note that, unlike many fish meals, this particular item appears1 to be ethoxyquin-free.

The ninth ingredient includes tomato pomace. Tomato pomace is a controversial ingredient… a by-product remaining after processing tomatoes into juice, soup and ketchup.

Many praise tomato pomace for its high fiber and nutrient content… while others scorn it as a cheap pet food filler laden with pesticides found on the skin of the tomato before processing.

Just the same, there’s probably not enough tomato pomace here to make much of a difference.

The tenth ingredient is dried egg product… a dehydrated form of shell-free eggs. Quality can vary significantly. Lower grade egg product can even come from commercial hatcheries… from eggs that have failed to hatch.

In any case, eggs are easy to digest and have an exceptionally high biological value.

From here, the list goes on to include a number of other items.

But to be realistic, ingredients located this far down the list (other than nutritional supplements) are not likely to affect the overall rating of this product.

With two notable exceptions…

First, the manufacturer appears to have applied friendly bacteria to the surface of the kibble after cooking. These special probiotics are used to enhance a dog’s digestive and immune functions.

And lastly, this food also contains chelated minerals… minerals that have been chemically attached to protein. This makes them easier to absorb. Chelated minerals are usually found in better dog foods.

NutriSource Grain Free Dog Food

The Bottom Line

Judging by its ingredients alone, NutriSource Grain Free appears to be an above-average dry dog food.

But ingredient quality by itself cannot tell the whole story. We still need to estimate the product’s meat content before determining a final rating.

The dashboard displays a dry matter protein reading of 31%, a fat level of 20% and estimated carbohydrates of about 41%.

As a group, the brand features an average protein content of 28% and a mean fat level of 18%. Together, these figures suggest a carbohydrate content of 46% for the overall product line.

Average protein. Above-average fat. And below-average carbs… as compared to a typical dry dog food.

Counting the modest protein contributed by the pea products, this looks like the profile of a kibble containing a moderate amount of meat.

Bottom line?

NutriSource is a grain-free dry dog food using a moderate amount of chicken or lamb meals as its main sources of animal protein… thus earning the brand four stars.

Highly recommended.

[MuleShack]

This one will probably answer your questions:

Best Puppy Foods

How to Find the Best Puppy Foods

Choosing the best puppy food for your new baby dog can be a daunting task. After all, today there are thousands of commercial dog foods on the market.

So, where do you start?

When searching for puppy food, the best place to start is simply knowing what an ideal dog food might look like. And what a puppy needs for proper growth.

It’s no secret, we tend to favor puppy foods that are…

1.Higher in meat-based protein

2.Higher in natural fats and oils

3.Lower in carbohydrates

4.Formulated from a named (non-generic) animal source

5.Free of animal or vegetable by-products

6.Free of artificial flavoring, coloring or preservatives

7.Complete in all essential vitamins and minerals

But Doesn’t Higher Protein Content

Cause Hip and Joint Problems?

No… but overfeeding does.

Contrary to popular belief, hip dysplasia and skeletal diseases in dogs are not related to dietary protein1. They’re much more likely the result of genetics2 and overfeeding during growth3.

Studies have clearly demonstrated the greatest risk of developing skeletal problems later in life is directly linked to overfeeding… allowing a puppy to eat whenever desired.

To greatly decrease the risk of your dog suffering the ill effects of serious growth problems, avoid leaving your puppy’s food in the bowl all day long.

Serve measured amounts… on a regular schedule.

The Challenge of Proper Nutrient Content

Unfortunately, when feeding puppies, you need to pay attention to protein minimums and fiber maximums. And fat content, too.

Too little (or too much) calcium can cause bone problems. And the same for phosphorus and magnesium, too.

Getting everything right can seem frustrating.

But there’s an easier way.

How to Be Sure a Puppy Food

Is Complete and Balanced

To ensure a puppy food is nutritionally complete and balanced, the Association of American Feed Control Officials has established a special nutrient profile optimized for growing dogs.

This AAFCO profile details no less than 37 nutrients that must be present in a puppy food including…

■10 amino acids

■12 minerals

■11 vitamins

To save you tons of time scrutinizing every pet food label, simply look for the AAFCO nutritional adequacy statement on every package of dog food.

This simple statement assures buyers a product meets nutritional requirements for growing puppies…

■Growth

■All life stages

■Growth and maintenance

Look on the label for a statement like…

Product formulated to meet the nutritional levels established by the AAFCO dog food nutrient profiles for growth

Is It Safe to Feed

Adult Dog Food to a Puppy?

Puppy foods contain more of certain nutrients… and less of others.

For this reason, and even though it’s safe to feed your adult dog a puppy food…

Never feed any puppy a food designed for adult maintenance only. Adult foods can be deficient in certain puppy nutrients.

How We Selected the Foods

If you’re looking for an above-average puppy food, we’ve prepared four different lists for you to consider.

Suggested products must meet two requirements. They must be rated at least either four stars or five stars by the Advisor.

And they must meet AAFCO nutritional profiles for either growth or all life stages or they must be recommended for puppies by the manufacturer.

[FCspringer]

OOPS I guess I looked at Diamond naturals, I was trying to be nice.LOL

I love that site. I feed Native and love the result, and have a comfortable feeling they are pretty accurate. Some with the same rating I have not liked the same how ever. But it is a pretty good way to sort through them with out walking through a million stores.LOL

[Kyhl]

Found the site. Thanks for the info.

We've been using a 4-STAR food but and were debating changing. The one we were looking at is a 5-STAR for a bit more money.

What I was looking for was higher protein and lower carbs and fat. One of our mongrels get's a bit overweight over the winter when they get less exercise.

We have to be picky because one of our dogs is allergic to chicken. Breaks out in hives. That alone crosses many foods off the list.

Btw, I've heard from many GSP owners that have the same chicken allergy issue.

[jeffreyd]

Blue Buffalo Large Breed Puppy Formula

Deboned Chicken, Whole Ground Brown Rice, Whole Ground Barley, Oatmeal, Tomato Pomace (natural source of Lycopene), Natural Chicken Flavor, Chicken Fat (naturally preserved with Mixed Tocopherols), Whole Potatoes, Peas, Flaxseed(natural source of Omega 3 and 6 Fatty Acids), Whole Carrots, Whole Sweet Potatoes, Blueberries, Cranberries, Barley Grass, Dried Parsley, Garlic, Alfalfa Meal, Dried Kelp, Yucca Schidigera Extract, L-Carnitine, L-Lysine, Turmeric, Dried Chicory Root, Oil of Rosemary, Beta Carotene, Vitamin A Supplement, Thiamine Mononitrate (Vitamin B1), Riboflavin (Vitamin B2), Niacin (Vitamin B3), d-Calcium Pantothenate (Vitamin B5), Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (Vitamin B6), Biotin (Vitamin B7), Folic Acid (Vitamin B9), Vitamin B12 Supplement, Calcium Ascorbate (source of Vitamin C), Vitamin D3 Supplement, Vitamin E Supplement, Iron Amino Acid Chelate, Zinc Amino Acid Chelate, Manganese Amino Acid Chelate, Copper Amino Acid Chelate, Choline Chloride, Sodium Selenite, Calcium Iodate, Salt, Caramel, Potassium Chloride, Saccharomyces cerevisiae, Lactobacillus acidophilus, Bacillus subtilis, Enterococcus faecium .

Crude Protein 28.0% min

Crude Fat 12.0% min

Crude Fiber 4.0% max

Moisture 10.0% max

Calcium 1.2% min

Phosphorus 0.95% min

DHA* 0.1% min

L-Carnitine* 100 mg/kg max

Omega 3 Fatty Acids* 0.25% min

Omega 6 Fatty Acids* 2.5% min

*Not recognized as an essential nutrient by AAFCO Dog Food Nutrient Profiles.

[nofishfisherman]

I have been feeding my Vizsla Nutri Source for the last year and a half or so. He does alright on it, no real complaints. However, i decided to look at some other options and compared foods on the web. The Nutri Source he is on now was rated at 3 or 4 stars, a good food but not the best.

I looked at the 6 star foods to see what the best foods are and Taste of the Wild was listed. I did a little more research and I ended up buying a bag and I'll be starting to switch him over to TOTW as his old food runs out. TOTW was only $2-3 more per bag which means less than an extra $20 per year to feed my dog a substantially better food. Well worth the money in my opinion. We'll see how he does on it but I have high hopes.

[jparrucci]

I've been doing a lot of research and pricing out of dog foods lately too. I have been using Canidae mostly, it rates out well and is reasonably priced, and available at most pet stores. Taste Of The Wild rates higher and is actually a buck or two cheaper per bag, not really any more expensive for a big bag than Purina One or any of the other "good" popular brands. All of the named brand dog food is garbage and anyone who cares about their dog should not feed it to their pet. Purina, IAMS, any of them. Junk.

The websites that rate the dog foods don't include prices. I spent a lot of time pricing out the quality foods that are affordable. Chicken Soup for the Dog Lovers Soul and Taste of the Wild seemed to be the best premium food for your money. Some of the other premium foods rated just a little higher, but I'm not paying 50-70 bucks a bag for a 30-40 pound bag. Both Chicken Soup for the Dog Lovers Soul and Taste of the Wild were under 40 bucks a bag, for a 30+ pound bag.

[Todd Caswell]

Iv'e fed alot of different food and always end up going back to Purina.

Proplan performance 30/20 for the working dogs and regular adult for the older less worked dogs. I switch the puppys to adult around 5 monthes and have never had a problem, alot of people don't feed puppy food at all.

While feeding purina mine have very nice coats, solid stools, and purina supports the dog games. Many many FT pro's feed pro plan performance to alot of extreemly high valued dogs and they do very well on it, I see no reason to switch.

[kentuck_ike]

I agree with Todd we have done the same, over the last 12 yrs and we are on our back to Purina Pro Plan Performance right now.

[nofishfisherman]

I agree there just is no reason to feed a dog the big brand name foods. There are plenty of high quality foods that aren't that much more money and you save a ton of money in the long run having a healthier dog. I also looked at Chicken Soup for the Dog Lovers Soul and was impressed, I opted for Taste of the Wild because the name sounded more manly.

Where did you see Taste of the Wild for under $40? I think I paid just a hair over $40 at Chuck and Don's. I went there to comparison shop because I knew they carried most of the top brands I wanted to look at. If there is somewhere else to get it cheaper I'd interested in finding out where.

[MuleShack]

Maybe check out a tractor supply.

just read some chatter online that TS was suppose to have the best price on this variety.

They even said you could order it online (using coupon on HSOforum at the time) and then pick up in the store. I didn't check on it myself just relaying (unreliable) information.

[kentuck_ike]

Has anyone talked to a vet about the food recommend on this HSOforum? I am not a fan of HSOforum ratings that have the "better foods" as the big sponsors.

They have some foods fed to National show & field trail dogs rated really low. Makes me think the site is more opinion based than fact based.

It seems to put a high value on human food grade ingredients, most vets will tell you human food is not that good for dogs. This is another reason I am not to sold on this HSOforum thing.

I have tried other "better foods" on my 10 dogs. Over the last 12 yrs. Nothing has maintained their weight, smooth coat, energy level, & small stoles as well as Purina Proplan Performance (Nutri Source Performance was a close 2nd) and my vet says it is a good food and that my dogs are in very good health. So I am going to stick with my experience and vet recommendation over a HSOforum rating system.

[CigarGuy]

If you want to get some unbiased info on dog food, try googling "Retriever Training" and go to the forums. This site has a lot of great info from vets, trainers, breeders, etc. BTW, I feed my dog, Taste of the Wild @ $42.98 for a 30lb bag.

[Shack]

Part of career from 2007 to 2009 involved working with the major dog food manufacturing companies here in the US and over in Europe with replacement & wearable parts for their extruder's and expeller's. With my travels to many places across the US, Diamond and their facilities in MO and CA are some of the most secure and well run facilities out there. The one thing I found "cool" about Diamond was they were a one stop, all done in-house pet food company. Not a pump and bag re-branding factory. All places buy their meal/raw material from rendering houses and other sources, so unless you have an independent facility you know personally, chances are no matter what is written on the bag you are going to get:

Quote:

This stuff can contain almost anything… feet, beaks, undeveloped eggs… anything (that is) but skeletal muscle (real meat).

mixed in with your puppy and dog food. Talk to enough people in the industry and you find out the base material 99% of the time comes from the same major rendering facilities.

To P.E.T.A. and the week at heart the above may shock a person who reads this, but to a puppy or dog, they love it. All dog foods (major brands) have had a recall at one time or another, but this has had more to with additives they blend in to get that list growing and the potential purchasers eyes popping that is on the back of the bag. When you become friends with a pet-food plant manager(s), you hear the real stories and not what some ad wants you to believe. I takes knowing more than two and then combining all the stories together to get an idea of the realties.

I will not recommend to anyone what they should or should not feed their dog or puppy, because how do I know? My luck the minute I recommend a product, someone uses it based on my recommendation, the dog would have an allergic reaction and pass away. I will only inform what I use when asked.

[nofishfisherman]

Its actually seems fairly difficult to get 100% unbiased info on dog foods. If you ask your vet they will give you their "opinion" but it is most often influenced by what manufacturer is giving the best kick backs. My vet pushes one brand and one brand only. I've asked them about food for my cat and food for my dog and they pushed the same brand for both and then dismissed other foods that I had questions about.

YOur best bet is to take the info you can find and decide for yourself what you think is best. In the end the main thing is the dog. If your dog likes a certain brand and is happy and healthy then you found the right food. The only reason I am switching is because its hard to keep weight on my Vizsla, he's a ball of energy that never stops so I want to make sure he's getting everything he needs to remain healthy.

[CigarGuy]

If you look at the site I recommended, they are very honest with their opinions on the different food-these are professional dog people. They analyze the ingredients, what roll they play in dogs health-good or bad. What most on the site say is after you choose a good quality food, let your dog tell you what they like. Observe there overall health, coat, weight gain/loss, performance, etc. Like the previous poster said, what works for one dog might not work for your dog. Use what works best for your dog.

[CaptainGary]

I agree with you CigarGuy. We started our 7yr old lab out with Purina Pro. She hated it. Found out she has a "sensitive stomach". Spent about 3 yrs trying every brand out there..lots of expensive 4,5,and 6 star brands. Lots of vomiting and trips to the vet. We ended up trying Beneful and what do you know, she loves it. Has been eating it ever since and is lean, muscular, and healthy. No more stomach problems. We are picking up a pup today and will probably try Purina again. I wonder what this pup will end up liking...lol

[Jmnhunter]

i've been using diamond naturals; as my breeder also recommended the naturals stuff; hes had good luck with the dogs coat and such and been using it since so i'll stick with it; I tried researching also but its all on opinions and no real good stuff, its a marcum vs. vexilar dsicussion.

[Swimmer]

My large lab grew up on Nutra brand (I do not recommend it) until age 8. At about age 8 he started losing energy so we weaned him over to Iams (we got a free bag and thought it was better quality...not) and then we noticed we couldn't keep his large water bowl full. We took him to the vet for a round of tests. When we got the results back the vet said he had something or another. My RN wife suggested he had diabetes. "Oh ya maybe" the vet said (we still use her, but have our doubts). So another round of tests and it was confirmed as diabetes. At that point I did some serious research on the net and the consensus was that the main brands were absolute [PoorWordUsage] -- containing way to much unnatural grains and byproducts. Obviously we had to limit his carbs to help control the diabetes so we decided to go with "Orijen" brand kibble. Made in Canada of all natural regional game and fruits vegetables and botanicals -- basically mimicking what the canine would be eating in the wild. It also is certified by the hypoglycemic institute and was Canada's "Pet food of the year for 2009 and 2010". He's been eating this lustfully for two years and we noticed he doesn't smell as much (believe it or not even his turds are almost odorless), his coat is glossier, and we have been able to reduce his insulen dose (he gets shots twice a day), more energy when he needs it but calmer demeaner. I am a true believer now in natural quality dog food without grains. Only drawback is that I think a 40# bag is $50. Well worth it though...considering I think if he had been on this food his entire life we wouldn't be worried about diabetes (nor maybe some of the other smaller ailments he had developed).

[Bryce]

Count me as one who uses one food for all life stages. We feed Exceed - only available at Sam's Club. Have seen it advertised on the bag at times to compare to Eukanuba. Not sure what that means. Same/similar formula? Repackaged? Either way, it's a 30/20 type food that we've had good luck with and it has a good price. We wean our pups on it and feed our own on it until death. We adjust amounts with activity level whether it be hunting/training, pregnancy, or old age.

[MuleShack]

so unless you have an independent facility you know personally, chances are no matter what is written on the bag you are going to get:

quote]This stuff can contain almost anything… feet, beaks, undeveloped eggs… anything (that is) but skeletal muscle (real meat).[/quote

mixed in with your puppy and dog food. Talk to enough people in the industry and you find out the base material 99% of the time comes from the same major rendering facilities.

To P.E.T.A. and the week at heart the above may shock a person who reads this, but to a puppy or dog, they love it.

LOL, My dog eats cat [PoorWordUsage] too if he finds it but it doesn't mean its good for him.

[waxworm09]

Our Springer cross is very picky about what he eats, we have had him for 6 years now and have switched his food about 10 times so far. 2 months ago we switched him to science diet and he loves it. Its the first brand of food we have bought that he eats right after we fill his bowl. Usually he lets it sit for hours before he finally eats but with this brand he gets excited to be fed. Is this a good brand of dog food? How does it compare to the Wal Mart brands like Purina One or Pedigree or Iams? We have tried all of those brands and he doesnt like any of them. We would love to keep him on it since we finally found something he loves, but like kentuckike said its hard to trust a HSOforum rating. Science Diet has a rating of 3 out of 10 stars on a site that rated every brand, but I thought it was better than that? It has the same ratings as the lowest quality food you can buy.