Electric outlet question

[kstruck]

At our family business I have been doing some remodeling and am looking at adding a new electric outlet and light switch to a room I am remodeling. Basically I am looking to hook it up and put the dead wiring in the walls before I drywall and then have an electrician come and connect it to a power source. The power for this building is on a 90 amp circuit breaker. I bought a 15 amp switch and a 15 amp outlet and a coil of 14 gauge wire. Will this be able to be merged into the electrical system by the electrician? Or am I off base? Thanks in Advance!!

[BoxMN]

You need to know the codes and should have it inspected before the rock goes on, for it to be done right. They will look at spacing of staples, and where the wire is placed on the studs (middle). Also need to pigtail properly, have correct amount of plastic cut away at the boxes and possibly have GFI as first outlet. If you know all that (and more), then you should be good, but if any of that has you scratching your head, you better get sparky to do it all. I am no sparky but learned alot when building my garage and doing it myself, with help of sparky friend

With that said, if you know enough and/or have a good book, it is not something that is too hard to DIY. But again, to do it right, it needs to be inspected, and very few here will probably advise you to do it based on the questions you asked, I think. And I doubt any real electrician will just hook it up for you if they didn't run the wire or at least see it before rocking. Good luck either way.

[kstruck]

Appreciate the comment. Doesn't hurt to have it done right the first time, I'll call the electrician in the morning!

[upnorth]

You can do it your self and then just have the local inspector check your work, if you want to go that route. Probably save a few $$.

[pureinsanity]

You could probably ask the electrician if he would cut you a deal if you cut the holes and ran the wires, and just had him nail it and connenct it.

[BobT]

All comments are pretty good. I can't imagine an electrician agreeing to "connect it to power" if he hasn't installed it too. The reason is that he would be held liable for the work because he put his license on the line.

If you know enough to get it to the point of applying power then I'd say you know enough to complete the project, which is basically what upnorth is saying I suspect.

Asking an electrician to basically hire you to do most of the grunt work by giving you a cut rate for doing the work might be a workable alternative but speaking from an electrical contractor's point of view (I'm not but I know enough to think in those terms) I would suspect they might be concerned that they would spend too much time (money) explaining how to do what needs doing and this may defeat any gains. Still might be worth exploring the possibility. Clicking submit too fast. THere could also be liability issues with this plan.

[Tom7227]

Consider what it would cost just to have an electrician show and do anything. They need to make enough to make it worth their time to even show up. I suspect it would cost you at least $100 to get them in the door.

[BobT]

I'm sure it would. Of course, if he does it, does it wrong, fails to get it inspected, and then it is later discovered, the inspector can order his power turned off and the wiring exposed (all of it) so he could inspect it or it is determined later that the wiring caused a fire and the insurance company refuses to cover the loss.

[pureinsanity]

Im running wire in my house right now, we are doing most of the pulling wires and drilling the holes and the electrician is connecting everything up. I am just doing what he tells me.

[walleyeseeker]

If this is considered commercial property, you can NOT wire anything yourself. ALL commercial wiring must be done by a licensed electrician. Also, if it is commercial, all wire must be run in conduit. You can no longer use Romex style wire.

[BoxMN]

If this is considered commercial property, you can NOT wire anything yourself. ALL commercial wiring must be done by a licensed electrician. Also, if it is commercial, all wire must be run in conduit. You can no longer use Romex style wire.

Right there is some info us DIY homeowner types would not know, and is one reason its good to find out for sure before starting. -filed away in my meager mind for future knowledge and safety - Thanks for info

[pureinsanity]

You should see the new and old wiring in the place I just picked up. It was a DIY kinda person. One breaker shut down 98% of the house. they have extension cords ran for wiring as well. lol

it was a fire hazzard waiting to happen specially since i've witnessed a couple bulbs burn up and smoke badly. Got new wiring running yesterday should be finished up today.

[BobT]

Good point. I overlooked the part about the family business. Yes, it is not permitted to wire commercial property without proper licensing, e.g., master electrician.

[mabr]

Good ole handy man wiring. Scary thing is this was work that a management company paid a so called contractor to do, and this is what we found after tearing out the drywall and Insulation because of water intrusion.Imagine had the water caused any arcing in this area. Would have been a fire instead of water loss.

I've also seen the extension cords in walls also.

[BobT]

I wonder how a contractor did this without having it inspected? That's worse than sloppy. That's downright criminal regardless who did it.

[BoxMN]

Wow, that is not even handyman wiring, my dogs could do better than that! Argggh... Your right Bob, that is criminal, and I don't even know Jack but can see that.

[soldoncass]

I can tell you that "handy" and that MESS do NOT go together. An inspector should be able to go after whoever did that.

[Jim Almquist]

That really is a joke!

The one thing that they stress in our PLT continuing Ed classes that if it is determined that the fire was caused by faulty wiring and it was not inspected, your insurance company will not have to pay for damages. Our classes are usually taught by inspectors

[upnorth]

I am no electrician, but that looks scary....

[delcecchi]

I think that is bogus. About the insurance company. I guess I need to look at my policy. If you did everything right there should almost never be a fire. Don't clean your chimney, run a space heater too close to the curtains, extension cord under the rug, smoke, etc etc.

[foulpole18]

I know in Minnesota a homeowner can do the electrical work in their primary residence. If you own rental property you cannot do electrical work without a license. If I understood the law as stated on my permit application I couldn't do any electrical work on a cabin if I owned one. The inspector that inspected my basement wiring was a real nice guy and really reasonable. He just want me to move which knockout I used on a couple of boxes and that was it. He looked over all my work and put a stick in a switch box stating that it was inspected.

I wouldn't do any electrical work at home that would require a permit without one. I think that it just give an insurance company an easy out in case of a fire or other damage.

[mabr]

The question about whether your insurance would cover a loss caused by non code compliance wiring is tricky. "If" the owner had no idea it was installed incorrectly or no permit was pulled the Insurance company would most likely cover the loss. The wiring in the pic is an actual loss I'm working on right now. The owner who bought the property had no idea what was done prior to him buying the property. I'm purely guessing, but had there been a fire I think the Insurance carrier would try and find out who the contractor was who did the work. As I said in the previous post, this work was hired out by a management company in the past. "IF" they can prove who did the wiring they would try and go after that persons insurance.

On this loss, the owners carrier will have to pay to fix these mistakes. Most policies allow for code upgrades. There is no way when we pull our permits that the inspector will allow us to cover this. Will they try and research who did it and go after them, I doubt it. Its not big enough to make it worth it to them. Unfortunate but most likely true.

Sad fact is alot of homeowners are willing to agree not to pull permits if it will save them money on the project.

[Macgyver55]

Quote:

The question about whether your insurance would cover a loss caused by non code compliance wiring is tricky. "If" the owner had no idea it was installed incorrectly or no permit was pulled the Insurance company would most likely cover the loss.

I find it difficult to believe for many reasons. There are many electrical installations that do not require a permit that can cause a fire. For instance, replacing a light fixture, installing a fan, replacing an outlet or switch and such. Any of these have the potentioal to cause a fire if done incorectly. It would be financially exhaustive/impossible for an insurance company to prove who did any of these especially when a home has had multiple owners. I cant say as I've ever heard of someone who was denied a claim due to uninspected work, but I only know one person who has been through the experience.

My brother has had first hand knowledge of an electrical fire in his home. The fire department determined it was electrical, the insurance was paid. He was never asked for permits and he was the original owner.

[pureinsanity]

I can see an insurance company denying a claim because of old wiring that wasn't replaced or new wiring wasn't inspected in a heart beat! They don't want to pay ANY claims! they will do whatever to get out of it!

[Whoknows]

As stated earlier a homeowner in the state of MN can do the electrical work themselves. They are however still required to pull a permit and go through the Rough/Final inspection process. Sometimes DIYers know just enough to be dangerous. You would'nt believe some of the stuff I've come across out there thats borderline suicidal.

The fierce competion out there with this sluggish economy sometimes can drive contractors to cut corners to save money, which in turn drives the quality of work down and may put lives or property at risk. If you can't afford to to it right, you should'nt be doing it at all.

I love when the media reports the source of the fire as an electrical failure. They forget to mention that the home owner plugged in a few space heaters on a 15amp general purpose branch circuit and to remedy the nuisance tripping they swap out the 15amp CB with a 30amp CB and wonder why there house burned to the ground.

I apologize about my off topic rant but the image above makes my blood boil...