Road Hunting

[bigbucks]

Started to hijack a post & decide this would maybe be a good topic. A comment about "road hunting" in a fishing post got me to thinking. I'm not picking on CommonSense Guy just food for thought for all of us. A lot of guys seem to take it for granted it's fine to road hunt pheasants & predators as long as they're on a gravel road & not right in front of somebody's house. Why is that? I used to feel that way, but I don't anymore.

I haven't felt road hunting was okay for a long time, but it really got nailed home with me on a bow hunt earlier this fall. I'd decided to sit the "pile" stand which is just an old dozing pile on the back corner of this little maybe 2 acre woods. The woods is bordered on two sides, basically the opposite corner from where I was sitting, by gravel roads. The corner of those roads is a 1/4 mile from my folks house, so I always park in their yard & walk down there, so my vehicle's not in the way to cut off deer. They cross those gravels any old time or place.

Anyway I'm sitting there waiting for a deer & a truck comes by, I can see them, they undoubtedly can't see me. I don't really pay much attention, but just a minute or maybe two after they disappear past the end of the woods I hear a couple of shotgun shots & some hollering. I think what the heck? that's Dad's corn field & pasture over there, whoever it is doesn't have permission to be there! Pretty soon through the trees I see a couple of shapes running. They cross the road, run along the edge of the woods, & then come into the woods. At first glance I thought it was the trespassers, then realize it's deer they pushed out of the corn most likely. Then I see the first deer running behind me, then "the doe & two fawns" we've seen all summer plus an extra fawn are behind me, clearly spooked. They come out right where I was setup for them to & close enough, but they're spooked, they won't stop. Off across the corn stubble they go, my hunt ruined. Pretty quick the truck comes clear of the woods & I hear them yell, there they are, knowing they see the deer they know they spooked out in the field, as they hurry them on there way.

Now they didn't know they wrecked my hunt, no idea if they would have cared had they known, but that's not the point. The point is they didn't have permission to do what they did, what seemed harmless quick little "road hunt" to them ruined a hunt for someone. Someone that had gotten permission, set up a stand site, planned for the right wind, worked on this setup over years really to be ready to take advantage of the right conditions to take a deer in that spot. All of that ruined by some inconsiderate trespassers out for a quick "road hunt." My whole season wasn't ruined, I shot deer this year, but people need to remember there's really no such think as legal "road hunting" unless you have permission on the land your actually hunting from the road or it's public land. Be considerate of landowners & other hunters who've done things the way they're supposed to.

Sorry for the rant.

Thoughts?

[NoWiser]

Here are my thoughts:

Road hunters are lazy slobs that like to call themselves hunters but don't have either the skill or ambition to do it the right way. They do a great job of giving all hunters a bad name. I don't care what they are "hunting" for, either.

[deerminator]

bigbucks, that stinks. There are legal and safe ways to "road hunt," but that is not one of them. I'm talking instead the guys out west who drive around, spot a deer on land they have permission to hunt a ways off, park the truck and hike in for a stalk and shot.

Unfortunately, gun opener became a bit of a circus for me as I was bowhunting. That morning, some of the neighbors zoomed around in their trucks on the township roads from woodlot to woodlot they had permission to hunt on neighboring properties. They worked as a team, one trying to scare the deer to the other side of a woodlot and the others jumping out of their trucks with guns in the "post" positions. This went on for a good hour after sunrise. Amazingly, this did not work for them but managed to scare the heck out of anything in the near vicinity. And they did get a few deer the next weekend by sitting in stands. Imagine that?

[BobT]

So what does this have to do with road huting for pheasants? Isn't it illegal to use a firearm for the taking of deer from a road or across a road? This isn't a road hunting issue. It sounds like a trespassing and illegal use of firearms issue. Don't turn it into something it's not.

[bigbucks]

I would say most of the people I've ever known about who road hunt, that's how they do it. What is legal road hunting for pheasants as you understand it Bob? Not attacking, just not sure what you're getting at.

[deerminator]

You can shoot within a public right of way next to the road or one you have access so long as you're not shooting over the road, correct? I've never done it but heard accounts of people who say that's how they've done it legally. So long as its legal and safe, more power to you in my opinion.

[picksbigwagon]

couple things I guess: bigbucks, did you report them to the sherriff and the DNR with a vehicle description and a description of the criminals? If it was tresspassing, nail them on it, I am sure your Dad would have blocked their vehicle in and called the sherriff if he would have caught them. Most farmers I know would do that exact thing if not more.

Secondly, to me road hunting for pheasants to me has been walking the ditches for pheasants where it is legal. I have done it in Iowa and when we talk about road hunting, that is what "we" refer to it as. Now if you mean driving down the road with loaded weapons, hopping out of the vehicle and shooting roosters that run into the ditch line, that is not ditch hunting, but lazy slob POACHING......I am not trying to speak for BobT, but to me pheasant road hunting is probably different than what you think it is

[BobT]

Quote:

just not sure what you're getting at.

Your post opens with the question of road hunting for pheasants but for the most part is talking about hunters that were targeting deer.

First, I believe it is illegal to shoot deer from a road right-of-way. The legal part of road hunting only applies to taking pheasants and grouse. Since you don't indicate whether you actually saw them shoot from the road at the deer, there is no way to know for sure they illegally shot at the deer from the road. If your assumption is correct then they would be in violation of the legal use of firearms laws.

Here's the wording from the handbook.

Quote:

No person may discharge a firearm or an arrow from a bow on, over,

across, or within the right-of-way of an improved public highway

(including but not limited to federal, state, county, and township

roadways) at a big game animal or a decoy of a big game animal that

has been set out by a licensed peace officer.

Second, you indicate that you witnessed them in a corn field as they pursued the deer. You don't indicate whether or not you know for sure that they do not have permission to be hunting the property but your assumption was that they did not. If your assumption is correct, they would be in violation of trespass laws by hunting the corn field.

None of this has anything to do with road hunting for pheasants. Reading your post I got the impression that you were making a statement against road hunting for small game like pheasants but the gist of your comments were aimed at deer hunters.

[HooknHorns]

There has to be alot of instances for roadhunting to be legal. Such as the deer have to be standing in the right of way on the same side of the road , buildings and livestock at the certain distance and firearms being loaded outside of the vehicle. Its almost impossible to be legal for deer but if one was walking catails for pheasants that is a different story altogether. As said thats the difference between poaching and roadhunting.

[mnbuckhunter]

There has to be alot of instances for roadhunting to be legal. Such as the deer have to be standing in the right of way on the same side of the road

Maybe read this again. This says within the right-of-way.....at big game animals.

"No person may discharge a firearm or an arrow from a bow on, over,

across, or within the right-of-way of an improved public highway

(including but not limited to federal, state, county, and township

roadways) at a big game animal or a decoy of a big game animal that

has been set out by a licensed peace officer."

[ANYFISH2]

I am too lazy to try and find my reg's ,but where are the provisions that make shooting any animal, legal within the right-of-way of any improved road?!

[bigbucks]

They were not hunting deer, I was hunting deer. They were hunting pheasants, it was archery season, but not firearms season. Someone else posted about people shooting at deer. I wasn't able to get a license plate & I didn't actually see them trespass, just from the sounds & what happened I pretty much know they were, could I prove it? very likely not.

My point wasn't to try to fine people, my point was that people need to think about what they're doing. First of course is it legal? Second even if it is legal what would you think of it if this was your land & someone else was doing it? I would call that more the sportsmanship side of it.

[HooknHorns]

I apoligize for not making my self clear about the improved roads. You are all correct about improved roads. I know of alot of roads that are minimum maintance roads that get driven on alot during the gun season. I definetly dont think poachers really care about what roads they hunt from as long as no one is looking. Anyway does anyone even know what is considered improved roadway, gravel roads or just black top? My hunting land is at the end of a dead end road annd would like to know because weve had issues in the past.

[BobT]

I reread your opening post again bigbucks and I still get the impression you were talking about a couple guys chasing deer out of your father’s corn. Your story initially doesn’t state the time frame so we didn’t know if they could legally take deer with firearms or not. In a later post you did state that the firearms season was not open yet so we now know the answer to that question. You claim you knew that they didn’t have permission. It wasn’t you they needed to get permission from but it would be reasonable to assume that you might know whether your parents gave anyone permission or not so we should be able to give you the benefit of doubt.

First, if they were actually hunting pheasants your story is about a couple guys that were hunting illegally by trespassing on agricultural land of which they did not have prior permission. This is not a road hunting issue it’s a trespassing issue.

Second, by your description their actions surely sound like they were after the deer and if that is true then they would also be guilty of discharging a firearm from a road right-of-way at big game. This is not a road hunting issue, it’s an illegal use of firearms issue.

Third, since you clarified later that it was not during legal firearms season then if they were shooting at the deer they would have been guilty of attempted poaching. This is not a road hunting issue it is a poaching issue.

Why are you trying to make this an argument against road hunting when their actions clearly have nothing to do with road hunting? Based on the information you present, whether road hunting was legal or not wouldn’t matter to these couple guys. They would do what they did regardless. Do you see what I'm getting at?

[BLACKJACK]

Why are you trying to make this an argument against road hunting when their actions clearly have nothing to do with road hunting?

Not sure if you're serious Bob or just playing devils advocate.

Two problems with legal road hunting for pheasants:

1) As bigbucks found out, a 'legal' shot at a pheasant in the ditch quickly evolves into trespassing. I would venture to guess that 90% of the time, a pheasant shot from the roadway is going to land on private land. Yes you can legally retrieve your downed game but - onto my second point

2) Road hunting, even 'legal' road hunting, gives hunters a bad reputation. Plain and simple. When I go ask Farmer Bob for hunting permission on his land, don't you suppose he'll be thinking about the jokers that jumped out of his car and blasted at pheasants last week?

Yes I've shot pheasants from the road, thats how I know that sooner or later you're going to end up trespassing to retrieve that bird. And how about the ones that you wound, drop a leg on, or you drop it a 100 yards into the field?

Nowadays I enjoy just watching the dog work, getting a pheasant is just a bonus, I don't have to kill every bird I see.

Roadhunters give hunters a bad name.

[bigbucks]

Yes, I see what you're getting at Bob, I did before.

What I'm saying is this is a LOT of people's idea of road hunting. Meaning that's how they do it & think nothing of it. I'm not bashing road hunting if done legally, it's just that in my observation it seldom has been. I was just hoping to get a few people to think about how they do things. I've known a lot of guys who were good hunters & good guys, who would think nothing of doing that. If you haven't that's great. Apparently I used a title you take offense to, which was not my intent, just what seemed a logical topic name to me.

Also for the record the I don't think the guys ever shot at the deer at all. I assume they shot at a pheasant that I never saw, they probably got it I don't know. They obviously pushed the deer out & knew it & hurried around just to see where they went. Had they just seen them crossing the road & done that there was nothing illegal about that. Having said that hunters still need to think about how what they're doing may be affecting other hunters. We've been sitting on stands during gun season & had deer coming down wood edges & people stop their vehicle to gawk at them even though they're 400 yards away. The deer eventually turn around & go away. I really don't think they were intentionally harassing us, they were just being kind of dense.

[ANYFISH2]

Bob how in any form is road hunting legal in Minnesota? So yes it is a road hunting issue. It is here to figure out the mentality of people driving roads to find easy game instead of properly hunting. If a road is maintained regularly it is improved township, county, state, and interstate.

[NoWiser]

Why are you trying to make this an argument against road hunting when their actions clearly have nothing to do with road hunting? Based on the information you present, whether road hunting was legal or not wouldn’t matter to these couple guys. They would do what they did regardless. Do you see what I'm getting at?

How does this having nothing to do with road hunting??? Seems to me their actions have EVERYTHING to do with road hunting. They were driving down a road, saw pheasants, jumped out and shot at them and, lastly, most likely trespassed. To me, that is THE definition of road-hunting. As mentioned before, I would also guess that 9 times out of 10, road hunting results in trespassing.

Even if they didn't do anything illegal (which is highly unlikely), their actions still succeeded in ruining an individul's afternoon, and giving hunters a bad name.

[BobT]

I am not a road hunter and I prefer to do the walking but I’m not against road hunting. What I mean is I never go out with the intention to road hunt but where it is legal and safe I won’t pass up the opportunity to take a grouse or pheasant from a road right-of-way if it presents itself. Most of the time the birds take flight and we chase them on foot anyway or let them go because they flew onto private property.

Suppose we revisit your story but make a couple small changes in the assumptions. Let’s assume they had permission to hunt the land (they could have if your parents didn’t tell you about it) and they were in fact targeting some pheasants that they came. Let’s also say that they did not know you were bow hunting in the area, which is probably the case.

Whether they shot at a pheasant from the road (road hunted) and either hit it or decided to work the corn, they would have been in the corn and spooked the deer just the same. Once they were in the corn and off the road right-of-way they would no longer be road hunting.

Even if road hunting was illegal this same scenario could play out. They could have been driving along the road and saw pheasants run or fly into the corn and then proceeded to pursue them on foot. When it was illegal we’d purposely drive up to the birds and stop so they would fly off the road and then pursue them on foot. Again, they would spook the deer just the same.

Road hunting doesn’t really play a significant role in this situation at all. The real problem was the suspected trespassing. If they did not have permission it not only interfered with your hunt, it also showed a blatant disregard and respect for the rights of the property owners - your parents.

It is legal to road hunt for pheasants even if both sides of the road are private property. It would be illegal however to take a pheasant from the roadway that is sitting on or flying over private property. So where both sides are private the only way you could shoot at the bird if it takes flight is if it flies directly down the road. If you wound a bird and it manages to escape onto private property it is legal to retrieve it without first obtaining permission. While retrieving that bird it would be illegal to take another one while on the private property. See page 6 of the handbook where it talks about trespass laws.

What I’m suggesting is that it is possible they legally shot at and wounded a pheasant that was sitting on the road right-of-way and it managed to either run or fly into the corn and they went in to retrieve it. This would have been legal. Your story lends validity to this possibility because you don’t mention any more shots and they were there for only a few minutes and left. They may or may not have found the bird but they obviously realized they had jumped the deer and were excited to have seen them. I also suspect they were unaware of your presence.

Is it possible you’re blowing this a little out of proportion? If I was in your shoes I’d be disappointed too but taking a step back and thinking things through, it could just have been one of those days. Something else to consider is that when they jumped those deer, they could just as easily have given you an opportunity you otherwise would never have had.

[HooknHorns]

Its tough to stay what happened at all. In the story there was yelling after shot, maybe there was a dog involved and they were attempting to call it off the deer.

[brian6715]

You can assume that maybe they were running after a dog, heck maybe their kid fell out of the window or something; but the fact of the matter is they were PROBABLY road hunting. There is no doubt that road hunters give hunters a bad name, you can't argue that. You also can't argue that this situation doesn't involve road hunting; as previously mentioned before it practically defines road hunting.

You can approach this anyway you want, but just skirting around the issue doesn't add much to this conversation.

[bigbucks]

2) Road hunting, even 'legal' road hunting, gives hunters a bad reputation. Plain and simple. When I go ask Farmer Bob for hunting permission on his land, don't you suppose he'll be thinking about the jokers that jumped out of his car and blasted at pheasants last week?

On the lighter side & I'm 100% serious. How did you know my Dad's name is Bob? I know you didn't, but it is. How funny is that?

[BobT]

I don't think road hunting has to give hunters a bad name. If a bird that is on the road flushes over private property then an ethical and law-abiding hunter will let it go. If a bird is on the road and flushes right down the road, the shot hits the bird, and then it veers off onto private property before falling, the ethical hunter would go and retreive it. The truest sportsman would mark the spot and let the property owner know that he downed the bird first but an effort should be made to retreive the bird rather than let it die for nothing. This of course takes time and if the bird still has its legs then the sooner one can get on its trail the better.

To the question about whether it is legal to road hunt. It is legal. The law only pertains to using firearms or archery to take big game but says nothing about small game. Laws don't define what is permitted, laws define what is not permitted. Occasionally the law will describe exceptions to what is not permitted. For example, page 7 of the handbook regarding the trespass laws is where you see the exceptions that allow retreival of wounded game on private property without permission.

[bigbucks]

First thing, it happened 6 weeks ago, I've talked to my Dad 50-60 times since then. He didn't give anyone permission, that's the first thing I asked him, naturally, so Bob's speculation, although admittedly just speculation, is wrong.

For the record to clarify another thought neither of these road are minimum maintenance roads.

I've been trying to make a point about if you're going to road hunt, it's very hard to do it legally, so be careful & try to be considerate of others. I've tried to explain this more than once, I guess I must suck at it.

I really didn't lose any sleep over this instance, it frustrated me obviously. Who wouldn't have been frustrated in that situation? I still shot deer this year, it was far from my only spot or my only hunt of the year, but for someone else it could have been. Yes I debated did they hurt me or help me, but that's really not the point. I thought I explained that I was quite sure they didn't know I was bowhunting there, how or why would they? How does that matter? They didn't have permission to hunt there.

Say they did this at 2:00 in the afternoon, prior to me being on stand. They still chased the deer out of a small piece of cover that I as the landowner or at least the hunter with permission to hunt there, know the deer are living in. I know they come out of this field or small woods roughly between 4pm & dark, go East past this pile or West towards my Dad's waterhole most days. This is true, I did know that. I've seen them & I had talked to my Dad many times about deer movement. He sees them & sees their tracks all the time. In other words I've done my homework. Like I'm sure many, many other hunters have.

I would be willing to bet that any who do road hunt or have in the past, have done this, & not done it legally. I can't think of the specific instance, but I'd bet I did in the past. Most of it's done by young guys just excited to hunt & not thinking, but I know there are guys that never really figure this kind of stuff out. I was just trying to provide some perspective. Have you ever gone out bow hunting, didn't see anything, & thought what the heck, these deer almost always come out here on this kind of a day with a SE wind or whatever? Granted sometimes it was something inconsequential like a stray dog bumped them or something unusual going on at the neighbors at the wrong time, just something out of the ordinary. My point is be respectful of other people's property & their hunting, it's not just about what you can snap a shot at right now.

[BobT]

I understand what you're saying about road hunters that don't follow the letter of the law. Don't you also think that whether road hunting is legal or not, these same idiots would still "jump out and blast away" Of course they would. How many threads have we seen on here that talk about deer hunters doing this and that IS illegal.