Deer Idea

[HunterLee]

I have seen pressure spikes in our area, when we had intesive and other areas had managed or lottery they all came to our area to hunt in figuring there were more deer and could get another deer or two. Now instead of the normal amount of people you had an extra 10-15 cars at some of the state land. With a set zone those people wouldn't of been there.

[Getanet]

Seeing as it's almost Thanksgiving I guess I'll start early...

This year I'm thankful that it's a small minority of folks that like the idea of only allowing people to hunt every few years.

[NoWiser]

Seeing as it's almost Thanksgiving I guess I'll start early...

This year I'm thankful that it's a small minority of folks that like the idea of only allowing people to hunt every few years.

Amen to that! Same with lottery buck tags. This was my 15th year hunting and I got my first shot at a wallhanger buck. I think I would have cried had I not been able to pull the trigger because I wasn't successful in a lottery! In my ideal world the only rule change would be no party hunting for bucks. But, I'd much rather have no changes than some of these things suggested! Can you imagine the family traditions these rules would break up.....

[luckey]

I agree, Getanet, it would be a horrible idea to limit the number of hunters. That idea would fly in the face o the DNR hunter retention and get youth involved programs.

[hockeybc69]

Quote:

Can you imagine the family traditions these rules would break up.....

Or in the world of the glass being half full, imagine the new traditions that will be started.

[nonteepical]

man, i'm not that good of a typer to even get started on a limited amount of tags senerio, but i can type POACHING EPIDEMIC.

[Basseyes]

There is no reason MN can't manage for number's as thats what they are after, but they could also manage quality just as easy. I know that big deer are not under every bush or around every tree.

The DNR is starting on the road to QDM through APR's and earn a buck. It takes time. They are working on learning how it will work in MN in state parks and SE MN. Just because it works great here or there doesn't mean it will put more bigger bucks in every part of the state. There are so many factors involved with the issue on a whole. There's social as well as biological issues at play and nature doesn't always play by the rule book we want or have lain out. And it is not "just as easy" to manage for quality as it is for quantity. Quality is a some what relative term. NE MT produces a lot of 150 class deer but very few over that because of habitat constraints on the soil, nutrition and genetics.

[schmoe147]

I believe the DNR is also starting to get QDM going in the state. It will make some people happy and some people mad. I think of when the dnr made changes to the walleye limit/possesion One over 24", there was alot of talk and people where mad about it. Now its not even talked about. This will be the same for QDM in future years. I dont believe it will change any family traditions. Guess what you can all still get together as a family and share stories and have a great time.

[pulleye16]

I've said this once and I'll say it again...you want a big buck try scouting and doing some homework instead of the state of MN doing it for you (implementing APR).

Every year big bucks get taken here in MN cause people know how to "hunt." My uncle has taken probably one of MN largest bucks ever out of Sherburne Wildlife refuge...a place that probably gets hit the hardest out of any public grounds in the midwest, probably the country (maybe a little fib there).

I also hunt very hard hit public land and ever year we get a "trophy" deer. Thats a bonus cause we'll take most anything but after scouting and learning where the big bucks are, it pays off.

As for party hunting, who cares! the tags are given out to be filled by whomever...just like fishing. When deer numbers get low, they implement bucks only for a year or two, deer herd gets large, they implement bonus tags until they get the herd managed and the cycle starts over again...

[schmoe147]

I do lots of homework and scouting and have had my share of luck. You are missing the point. In the future everyone will forget about the whole QDM thing. Just like walleye slot limit.

[Basseyes]

. But why can't there be a middle ground of decent numbers with some age class of deer?

MN has lots of potential for big deer, I know this first hand as I have shot several nice deer, miss some also, and know people who have shot them.

This year in my area has been an ok season. I haven't seen alot of deer, but I have had good encounters with quality deer- 135 and up, or shooters in my case. Two big 8's both over 135in, one double drop-tine with great potential, decent 9 pt and two not sure if it was the same deer or not but pushing 160's.

Also several very nice ones on camera that i never saw in person, but are supposedly dead.

But the bad thing is I hardly saw any small bucks. Which as we know are next years nice ones.

So with that in mind why can't MN change and manage deer the right way. We have the deer, genetics, and even people that want it done.

What is MN doing so wrong? Aren't they making some changes towards QDM type goals? We have plenty of deer and I think MN has a better age class of bucks than many people give it credit for. Could it be better? Sure. In a lot of areas of the state you can get away from people and still have a good quality hunt on public land. Few states have that. Most states that have great buck hunting right now are pay to play type hunts. If you don't have well over a grand to put into a hunt forget it. Perspective on whitetail hunting is interesting to me. If you look at states like Kansas, Iowa, Illinois, Missouri and others they do shoot some great scoring bucks. If that's all you are after is a high score it's going to cost you be it time or cash. Many things have fallen into place through habitat changes and a lot of hard work by land owners in those states. This has taken a ton of time and a ton of money on their part. It's not just something the DNR did or didn't do on some grand scale of regulation planning that made it all happen. Many things fell into place over the years. Some things were planned. Others just worked out like weather patterns and habitat changes out of the control of the regulation makers hands. On our 40 well north of Hwy 2 in NE MN we have a very nice mix of age class of bucks. Some of the fawn bucks have small antlers growing instead of just buttons. Is fun to see all the younger bucks on the trail camera pictures as well as the older ones. We have many things that other states don't have like winters and a pack of wolves that many think is well above the number given by the DNR and Federal number crunchers. Those are 2 very big factors.

[HunterLee]

The thing with party hunting is if people follow the rules the way they are intended its not a real bad deal, but as others have posted on this post and others is the number of people who buys tags for others and shoot deer for them that either are not hunting, or who don't hunt at all. Thats the biggest issue.

In reality if you bought all three tags, bow, rifle and muzzleloader you could tag three bucks. Illegal yes, but each tag is valid for them, and if the person doesn't register two of the three no body will know they shot the other two.

I know poachers will be poachers, but why not make it harder for them.

The only way those people get caught is when someone knows they have shot other deer and turns them in.

Or the guy who hunts no stop from start to finish and always hunts with a party and shoots a bunch of bucks each year and uses other tags. Then he still has his own to hunt.

I just don't see how that is fair. I guess i go hunting to hunt and fill my own tags and hopefully other people i hunt with fill thiers. Not saying you can hunt with others and help out, but i know i would be a little disappointed if i helped push some deer and the poster shot 4 or 5 and that was the end of hunting for the year for everybody.

Granted hopefully most people follow the rules but even a small percent are doing that it really adds up as the state sells rougly 500,000 tags.

Also the wolf issue- hopefully the state can get something done to help curb that problem. Pretty soon they will eat them out of house and home and die from starvation or mange. I live out in farm country almost to the red river, the last 4-5 years we have seen wolves with regularity. They do what Kelly-P stated they hunt the deer yarding areas or feeding areas. It is not uncommon to see several red spots out in an open field a couple times a week. There are to many and they are putting a hurting on our deer here to, so i can't imagine how many they kill where there are lots of them.

That is a different issue, but is something that would have to be accounted for also. Hopefully the state can get in gear and let us thin them out. I love to coyote hunt and that would be a true trophy.

[pulleye16]

I do lots of homework and scouting and have had my share of luck. You are missing the point. In the future everyone will forget about the whole QDM thing. Just like walleye slot limit.

Fishing I beleive you can catch and release...

Don't get me wrong, catching a nice big walleye is always a blast but doing it on almost every catch isen't as rewarding say going to a lake other then Leech, mille lacs, canada to name a few, and pulling a nice 27+ out of a smaller lake. When people say they caught twenty - 25 inch inch plus walleyes and you ask where and they say up in Canada your response is "ok-not bad." Someone says that say Round lake near palaside you'd be like "holy carp-nice work! You must really know what your doing!" Anyways thats comparing apples to oranges.

you say everyone would get use to QDM (I think you mean APR per every other post)? I'd feel no sense of joy other then spending quality time with family and friends out hunting if everyone was shooting 140+ class bucks. why not jump right on the waggon and say only 6 points on one side should be taken...why stop at just 4 if we want "huge fickin buck?"

[HunterLee]

But you got to understand that if there are lots of 140in bucks around that only means there are bigger ones, as its not quite like fishing.

Also i am not so much after bigger racked bucks- but with letting more get older that is a by product. Thats more of the point. Thats why i never went with APR, would be fine with me, but if you drew a buck tag then you could shoot whatever you wanted.

[Boar]

Wow Hard to take it all in, I guesse I'm a meat hunter, but I certainly dont nessessarily have to fill the freezer, but it sure dose help the grocery bill to put a cuple in the ice chest. I'm for 2 an 4 day seasons. I hunt 257, One buck an one antlerless. right across the road is 209 an 210, 5 deer limit in intensive harvest. A guys at work said he bought his lisence to hunt 209 but actually hunts 257. So he buys a lisence to obtain his 3 extra intensive permits, then gose an hunts a 2 deer limit zone because thats where his girlfreind hunts. I'm just wondering if the state needs to take a close look at how one obtains a lisence in accordence where he hunts. Boar

[mnbuckhunter]

A guys at work said he bought his lisence to hunt 209 but actually hunts 257. So he buys a lisence to obtain his 3 extra intensive permits, then gose an hunts a 2 deer limit zone because thats where his girlfreind hunts.

Sounds like someone is doing something illegal to me. Just because he buys 3 intensive permits doesn't mean he can fill them anywhere he wants to. Doesn't really matter where you say you're going to mainly hunt, you still have to follow the rules of the zone you're. I hunt in a few different places. One is intensive, and one is a lottery. Just because I have intensive permits doesn't mean I can fill them in the lottery area I hunt.

Anyway, personally, I'm all for seeing bigger deer, but not at the expense of having to pass up a deer just so someone else can shoot a trophy. I hunt quite a bit in all three seasons. Some years I don't get a chance at a BIG deer. I generally pass up spikes and forks all year but if I haven't gotten one and it's muzzle season, I'd take a smaller buck given the opportunity...... because I LOVE venison meat more than other meat. Not because I NEED it, but because I want it. I've taken some big deer. One was a 140 class during muzzle season. But my biggest "trophy" is the fork I have on my wall. That was the first deer I took when I was 13 with my Dad.

[pulleye16]

I think maybe, maybe the person was saying that since its open state wide, someone can go to an area that you can shoot 5 does, fill you tags, and then move to another area and take a buck, or if getting a doe permit, take one there too (his wifes area). Not sure if thats what he meant but I think thats what people are doing...

You should have to pick one zone to hunt (bucks) and an area for you doe tags only like back in the day. It would keep people from jumping all over the state and would be easier to manage IMO.

I do agree with you MNBUCKHUNTER. Vension in the freezer is more important then antler size.

Big bucks are great but it's also just as if not more rewarding when having to hunt down and outsmart a big ol buck. Thats why for "filling the freezer" and "big buck" guys, it would be more benificial to PASS on small and fawn doe's cause we take alot of what are actually small bucks out of the game thinking there doe's (and they don't put alot into the freezer). If the DNR would push for that, not making it illeagle but DISCOURAGED, we would increase the amount of bucks (small) which then more would grow into the "trophy" some of you are after. Even for deer managment taking an adult Doe is more benificial as to what the DNR wants. adult doe takes 3 deer out, fawn-fawn buck-and buck only take only deer out.

[brassman]

First, I hunt in an intensive harvest area. I hunted on opening day, shot two deer to fill some bonus tags. I didn't hunt sunday because we had to take care of the three deer our group got saturday morning. I hunted thursday before the second weekend and my father saw a doe that he passed on. The next day I shot a 3.5 year old 9 pointer because I really don't need to shoot a small buck after having 3 deer in the freezer already. I feel that if I had the chance to shoot 5 deer or one, I would still pass small bucks. Thats me. I have the chance to shoot a doe more often than a buck so thats usually what happens, due to my track record its obvious. 8 does and 5 bucks. With one of those being a button buck, which I would have never shot if I would have known. It would be tough to get everyone on board with that mentality. Not impossible but highly improbable.

#1. allow all of those age 16-17 and under to take whatever they please.

#2. in areas of low density, keep it bucks only unless drawn for a doe tag.

#3. no party hunting for bucks, (although party hunting probably accounts for a very small percentage of harvest numbers.)

#4. I don't have a number four.

#5. Facebook should be shut down!

#6. Maybe rethink the bag limits. Why five?Four or maybe three would work better, but as of yet there is no concrete way to accurately judge population densities. Remember that Minnesota has not had this high of a population in modern management times.

#7. Remember that from the time that humans were humans, there have been beggar's liars and cheaters, poaching can and will happen, this isn't Pleasantville.

#8. Don't limit a person to hunting only one season. If you get 3 tags and fill one with each type of weapon, and legally tag them, its fine by me.

#9. The registration system could get rid of the e-registration and go back to regular drive in registration. I utilized the online version, but I did so honestly.

#10. The season dates could be shuffled around a bit, as long as I am able to hunt in the fall I'm happy.

#12. Which is the most important. If any of you remember the survey the DNR put out a few years ago, you would already know that a rather large number of people want to keep most of the regs the same. Change isn't going to come easy!

And to the wolves. They are here to stay, they were here before us. They are the ultimate in evasive tactics so any type of hunting for them would be ten times harder than deer. They are smart creatures and will learn very fast if something or someone is persuing them. I hunt in an area that has plenty of wolf sign, I have seen plenty in the flesh in years past. I don't mind them at all. In fact I would not mind seeing more of them once in a while. It gives me a reason to go back out next weekend. And its always a neat experience. Isn't that why we really go out there in the first place? I feel kind of jipped because in the last two years I have sat on stand for a combined total between bow hunting and rifle hunting.... the grand total is! Under 24hours!!! and thats for 5 deer! one wall hanger and one slightly less than that. (doing a euro mount) Delisting the wolves ins't a panacea for deer hunting however I do believe that their population is at sustainable levels without threat of it dropping. I agree that they should be delisted, but not for reasons linked to deer popultions, that is absurd. As for now, my fingers are tired and I would only be diluting my debate.

[BRULEDRIFTER]

#5. Facebook should be shut down!

That was random...

[brassman]

I know but if you look at legislation bills being passed in D.C. you would find random stuff in them that have no relavance to the main item. plus I had writers block, it was an easy way of getting the ball rolling. But it doesn't negate the fact that it should be shut down. He he

[mabr]

LMAO I like Brassman!!!! Not so much for the facebook thing but his overall outlook.

[lakevet]

Go back to tagging with sticky tags and requiring the person at the registration station to inspect and attach the registration tag like they used to when I was a kid. I think the high deer population allowed the process to get sloppy. Go to Iowa DNR site. The past several years they have had a notice about the deer numbers not registered skewing their stats accuracy, something like 10%. Minnesota used to have metal tags that locked when attached to deer. You had to watch how you folded them in your pocket, cause if it locked accidently you were not able to tag a deer. The DNR went to sticky tags cause some guys figured out how to reuse the metal tags. Now we have tags that we tie on with a string, and register with very little chance of accountability. At least before there was the registration person who might look at what you shot, and could drop a dime on you to the CO.

lakevet

[lakevet]

Party hunting ban for bucks only will reduce buck take by about 7% according to the MN DNR. With Aprs closer to 85% of younger bucks will be "saved". Often party hunting is put first on the list of things to ban as a lightening rod whipping boy, even though it it well proven that banning party hunting reduces harvest of deer minimally (less than 10%). Those that are against legal party hunters (as apposed to poachers who violate existing laws, drop a dime on them instead of complaining about them and letting them go) generally do so for "feel good" reasons instead of management by science. If you disagree, post references of peer reviewed studies that prove me wrong.

Wisconsin and Iowa both allow party hunting for bucks including trophy bucks and have for years. I have only heard silence when this point is brought up because the fact is that party hunting doesn't interfere with the production of big bucks. Wisconsin and Iowa are proof of that year after year after year after year.

MOVE THE HUNT BACK, YES BACK, TO AFTER THE RUT WHERE IT ORIGINALLY WAS IN MINNESOTA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

and let me keep gifting my tags to my kids, nephews and nieces and hopefully someday my grandkids if I have any.

lakevet

[TruthWalleyes]

I'm with ya on the X, Y number of tags....But seriously, first come first serve? Do you want to stand in line for 10hrs to possibly get a deer tag?? I don't. I think there must be a better plan than stand in line like black friday to get the last two TV's!!

[hockeybc69]

I think one thing is pretty clear. The DNR isnt going to go to a method thats going to drastically limit/lower the sales of licenses, which will happen with this X,Y tag thought.

The only reason I could see it, would be if the herd was decimated by something and requiring a drastic measure to be put in place to limit harvest.