Deer Idea

[hockeybc69]

I will play a little devils advocate on that Hunterlee.

So if everyone shot that doe instead of the buck(assuming the scenario where a buck and doe are hanging with each other), would you be complaining because you arent seeing as many deer due to all the does being shot and hence not reproducing to allow you to see 25 deer in a single outing?

I am not being fececious about it, but in reality if you are pushing that thought, there would be serious consequences on overall population IF everyone shot the doe in that case.

I dont think thats the answer at all to shoot all the does.

We pass on the does and small bucks during firearms season(except the kids). Just in case you are wondering what we would do.

Archery and muzzy, we use those seasons if we feel the need to shoot some does for some venny in the freezer.

[creepworm]

Alright, I have a scenario for you. You are in a lottery area and enjoy eating venison. A small buck comes by and is likely the only deer you are going to see this season. You do not have a doe tag. What do you do? You could go many years without seeing a "shooter" buck and have no venison to eat.

[hockeybc69]

Great point creep.

Lottery areas, thats a different beast to talk about.

But Hunterlee did say in his original post that he is in a managed area. So the discussion in this case could be swayed more to how things he feels a managed area should or could be.

[creepworm]

Hockeybc69, I don't think you NEED big antlers on every deer either. If you add up what it costs for those antlers you would be better off buying a nice buck from a deer farm.

Sorry but your not needing to fill the freezer argument holds absolutely no water.

[totally_addicted]

I don't agree with no party hunting. I agree with no party hunting for bucks. Does should not matter if they are shot by the person who has the tag or not.

[HunterLee]

The droptine- only have this one pic on this computer. not mature but i would shoot him given where he lives

on of the big 8's

never saw this one and he is still alive

same with this one, he walked under my tree not long after i left. nice but not mature

Now for some ND deer.

Mature deer looks like a steer

this one came after the one i shot.

the one i shot

Those from ND were taken in one week and that was all the time i had a camera out.

[hockeybc69]

Quote:

Hockeybc69, I don't think you NEED big antlers on every deer either. If you add up what it costs for those antlers you would be better off buying a nice buck from a deer farm.

I never said I NEED big antlers on every deer. We shoot some antlerless deer.

If I add up what it costs for "those antlers", my wife might kill me.

Shhhhhhhh!!!!!

[kelly-p]

"there is plenty of food out there that wont cost what a deer costs to harvest."

In my case the entire cost is a rifle. I bought one 44 years ago and it still shoots fine plus I can use it for other things. A box of shells every other year or so and the cost of the license. We butcher our own deer so there is the cost of freezer paper also. Deer hunting is only expensive if a person makes it that way. That is each person's choice. What does hamberger as lean as venison hamberger cost in a store?

How are you going to get the timber wolves to follow the QDM and APR rules. The biggest buck in this area this year died last weekend. The wolves killed him and ate him. They did leave the rack tho for those hunters that only hunt for racks. Around here a field crop is a real treat for deer. We left some soybean stubble for the deer to feed on. Over this hunting season we saw more timber wolves in that field then deer. No I'm afraid that you are going to have a very difficult time getting the wolves to follow the proposals you want and if the wolves aren't involved it makes no sense to have the QDM or APR.

In this area I know of 2 hunting groups with doe tags hunting the same private land that they have hunted for over 3 decades that never fired a shot this year. One of the groups did not even see a deer until today. Over all it was the slowest deer hunting in decades around here. Some of the groups with doe tags let the does and fawns walk on by to help the deer herd out. QDM and APR might be OK for farm country but in the northwoods after a hard winter none of the racks would be big enough for APR.

[schmoe147]

What makes it wrong to party hunt for bucks yet you say party hunting for does is fine??

[Gordie]

to me party hunting is not wrong but the abuse of it witch the members of the party buy tags for the wife that never sets foot in the woods or deer camp ..thats wrong.

[hockeybc69]

Hey Kelly,

I never once said that every person cant do it on a budget. However, I did say that the excuse of filling freezers is used an awful lot.

But I will say this in the same breath; you mention this:

[in this area I know of 2 hunting groups with doe tags hunting the same private land that they have hunted for over 3 decades that never fired a shot this year. One of the groups did not even see a deer until today. /quote]

OK, so are they out hunting to fill freezers because they are starving? If so, they really need to rethink that idea.

Now the wolves is an entirely different issue. We need a seperate topic on that and the delisting. I do not envy you or anyone else with wolves. That does suck bad.

[kelly-p]

"OK, so are they out hunting to fill freezers because they are starving? If so, they really need to rethink that idea."

They deer hunt because they enjoy it and they also can use the meat. Does QDM and APR make any sense when the deer numbers are that low? Should they pass up a spike so that IF he survives the winter and IF the wolves do not kill him he can be a bigger buck next year? This idea that the only value a deer has is in the size of it's horns is one I can not agree with. You seem to feel that people that hunt deer for the meat to put in their freezer are wrong and in the past. I guess then that I live in the past because I take far more pride in taking a good shot that kills quickly and ruins as little meat as posible then I do the size of the horns on the deer.

[hockeybc69]

You and I are on different pages Kelly from what you are debating.

I dont hunt to shoot and not make a good clean kill. No clue where you come up with that the way you imply how you hunt for the quality shots, etc etc..... and maybe I dont(thats the way I read your post). I hate hack hunters.

And I never have once said that people that hunt to fill freezers are wrong. I simply said that people that "claim" to hunt to fill freezers should really look at what it costs them to get the meat if they are truly trying to feed a family for survival. I guarantee you, 99% of licensed hunters cant feed their family cheaper on a deer than they could on other foods. Especially with food stamps and all the other programs out there if people are truly hurting that bad.

You and I are both entitled to our opinions of what we want. This topic is sure to continue on with views from 360 degrees of the discussion and what people think and want.

[bottom-bouncer]

Elwood you hit the nail on the head. The number one reason I hunt is to spend time with my son's and daughters and wife. number two on that list I like hunting mature bucks I hate to burst anybodys bubble but it really isnt hard to kill 1 1/2 year old bucks doesnt matter if your up north or down south (exept S.W minnesota) number three reason is to put some meat in the freezer and for that I shoot does. I think one of the reasons so many aree opossed to QDM is that they are afraid that they may have to put more than three days into harvesting there deer. By that I dont mean that you have to sit for more than three days you may have to actually put more thought and effort into there deer hunting(reading,scouting,studying maps) Most of the people I know that hunt hard for mature bucks put alot of time into there pre-hunt preparations myself included Its part of the fun and it extends your season. I know some body will say I am so busy I dont have more than 3 days that I can put into deer hunting B.S Lame excuse I work my wife works and we have six kids I still find time to invest into my passion for deer hunting. If it truly is something that you love you make the time. The real answers to improving the deer hunting in minnesota are simple. APR untill are DNR moves the gun season this is a good thing if they ever do move the gun season then do away with the APR's. With that said move the season shorten the seasons no cross tagging and educate the hunting public to the importance of letting imature bucks walk.

[bottom-bouncer]

"there is plenty of food out there that wont cost what a deer costs to harvest."

In my case the entire cost is a rifle. I bought one 44 years ago and it still shoots fine plus I can use it for other things. A box of shells every other year or so and the cost of the license. We butcher our own deer so there is the cost of freezer paper also. Deer hunting is only expensive if a person makes it that way. That is each person's choice. What does hamberger as lean as venison hamberger cost in a store?

How are you going to get the timber wolves to follow the QDM and APR rules. The biggest buck in this area this year died last weekend. The wolves killed him and ate him. They did leave the rack tho for those hunters that only hunt for racks. Around here a field crop is a real treat for deer. We left some soybean stubble for the deer to feed on. Over this hunting season we saw more timber wolves in that field then deer. No I'm afraid that you are going to have a very difficult time getting the wolves to follow the proposals you want and if the wolves aren't involved it makes no sense to have the QDM or APR.

In this area I know of 2 hunting groups with doe tags hunting the same private land that they have hunted for over 3 decades that never fired a shot this year. One of the groups did not even see a deer until today. Over all it was the slowest deer hunting in decades around here. Some of the groups with doe tags let the does and fawns walk on by to help the deer herd out. QDM and APR might be OK for farm country but in the northwoods after a hard winter none of the racks would be big enough for APR.

sorry but that is not true a mature buck has a much better chance at surviving a tough winter after the rut than a young buck. Do you know why you seen more wolves in your field than deer because prior to you seeing the wolves the deer were concentrated in that area feeding on your stubble And like any animal in the wild the wolves are animals of opurtunity there not going to go hang out five miles down the road and hope a deer walks by when there are deer concentrated in one area. also to say the wolves are going to kill the biggest bucks in the area absurd it may happen it may not you have no idea if that buck had gotten injured prior to the wolves killing him.

[bottom-bouncer]

Alright, I have a scenario for you. You are in a lottery area and enjoy eating venison. A small buck comes by and is likely the only deer you are going to see this season. You do not have a doe tag. What do you do? You could go many years without seeing a "shooter" buck and have no venison to eat.

How many tiimes are people going to use the you are in a lottery area and a litle buck walks by it mite be the only deer you see this season. What if? you let the litle guy walk and then next year he comes by again only this time he is a eight pointer What if you ate your tag for one season would it really be that bad I havent tagged a buck in four seasons its not the end of the world Good things come to those who wait. The one thing that there is no what if to is the fact that if you kill him when he is a 1 1/2 year old spike is not going to get any older or bigger no matter how many what ifs you feed him.

[matchset]

is change a bad thing???? maybe i'm wrong; but it seems like MOST everyone on this sight is closed minded and stuck in the past (glory days).

is it wrong for a guy to want to see a mature buck??? no. just like its not wrong for you to want to own a 2011 Ford, Chevy, Toyota, GMC, Dodge, truck instead of a GEO Metro you drive to work everyday!

Minnesota is not RECOGNIZED as a quality whitetail state. I'm all for passing up 2.5 year old bucks...heck i've even passed up 3.5 year old bucks because they weren't mature.... it would JUST be nice to see them live instead of crossing property lines and getting blasted by the party hunting neighbors.

time and time again....if meat is what you are looking for; shoot a doe!

BANG BANG THRU THE BRUSH NEEDS TO STOP!

[Pinusbanksiana]

One reason QDM will not work in northern MN is that ONE BAD WINTER and all the work done up to that point is gone. If we had an actual but kicker of a winter it would take several years to recover to a hunt-able population of deer. One bad winter would also knock the wolf population back down too. Two bad winters in a row and we would be in trouble. It is not a matter of if it will happen, but when.

[skee0025]

Sorry for everyone that needs to fill a freezer, but I find it hard to believe there are that many people out there that truly NEED to fill a freezer.

And there is absolutley no one that NEEDS larger antlers. Your point is moot. A better case can be made for filling a freezer than 4 points per side.

[smilee_54]

I for one am a party hunter. I don't like to be put into a catagory of buying license for my wife counsins best friend and using their tag well you my point. I am not a brush wacker like someone said on this board. I think that some of this animosity goes back to people thinking about the negitives and not thinking about the positives. How many people party and and follow the rules and how many people don't. Its like the media the bad news makes good news. When we party hunt Usually the person that shot the deer tags the deer. I like to get meat in my freezer too. That all depends if i see a deer or not. I saw a deer the other morning it was too dark I could of shot but I didn't. Why does everyone think that party hunters break the law. How about road hunters? How about the guys that sit in there trucks in the woods and hunt out of them. ever think that alot of party hunters bow hunt before the season and havent shot at a deer and would like to get a deer to have some vension. I don't agree with the APR. I am not a "tropy hunter". I like to go hunting with my cousins and brothers. It a long standing tradition that goes back before my time. I am just sick of people saying that people that party hunt are bush wackers and and get tags from other people. When most people that party hunt do follow the rules and enjoy their time out in the woods. Maybe we should get rid of rifles. I mean the deer don't have a chance at over 300 yards away. rant over

[reinhard1]

i agree with you. we have "party" hunted since i was in jr. high school back in the early 60's. even with 4 of us hunting in northern minnesota, did not guarentee a deer. we have never made a drive so to speak. we normaly sit in our stands and wait and enjoy the woods in the meantime. we always split our meat and i usualy make the sausage for everyone including some of my neighbors. i look forward every year to be with the ones i care about and enjoy our brief time together. i wonder outside of those who hunt alone, how many that hunt in groups take only home the deer they shot and do not share any of the meat. one of my neighbors hunts alone and even he shares his meat with friends and family. good luck.

[bottom-bouncer]

One reason QDM will not work in northern MN is that ONE BAD WINTER and all the work done up to that point is gone. If we had an actual but kicker of a winter it would take several years to recover to a hunt-able population of deer. One bad winter would also knock the wolf population back down too. Two bad winters in a row and we would be in trouble. It is not a matter of if it will happen, but when.

WOW!!! QDM will not work in northern minnesota. Can one of you Weekend warrior's tell me then why does it works in northern saskatchewan I am not talking about the lower part where it is closed to non residents But the northern part that is very heavily timbered. The winters are longer and the snowfall heavier and the temps colder. So tell me why?

[candiru]

I don't think too many people live up there and their hunting pressure certainly is lower than MN's. How do you know for certain that those of us that oppose QDM (antler worship) are "weekend warriors"?

[BigJakeL]

1) No party hunting! Yes, great idea! I believe shoot it, kill it, Tag it with your tag!

2)Buck Lottery- can't disagree more! I hate the idea that if my son goes hunting for the first year and all we see is small bucks and because you want to shoot a mature buck he can't shoot! This idea is great if we had a tag that would allow a first time hunter to shoot whatever, large, small, Big buck, or spike buck. Other than that not opposed to it!

3)Set up Goals- I believe this sounds a lot easier than it would be for the dnr to actually do and enforce! Instead I would suggest a study to determine how many deer are in an area. And perhaps put it in the handy madandy hunting booklet we get all to time so hunters are aware where the chances of bagging an animal are!

4)No more rifles slugs only- I disagree. Its not the rifles that are wrecking deer population. Just because you can shoot far doesn't mean you have to! Its the people who throw a box of shells at the deer and four hundred yards away in an open field and wound it!

5)2 And 4 day seasons- I was not hunting when these were in place so i do not know how this actually works. But if it was a couple two and four day seasons throughout the archery season. I would not be opposed. The reason I say archery season is because you don't really want to be hunting in the summer or spring for deer!

6)Good ole Sticky tags- Yes, Sir! I have lost so many tags after tagging my deer! Those tie on ones are a joke! Along with online registration! I agree that a poacher will be a poacher! It doesn't matter if you have sticky tags or the ones we have today! But as and honest person I want a tag that when tagging the deer doesn't fly off when going down the road!

7)Hunting all three seasons- The deer population is not hurting that much that we need to implement this! Another suggestion I have is who would be opposed to a muzzle loader season before gun season and maybe a couple weeks before like the first week in October! To lessen the pressure on deer?

8)Drawing- Hunting is a tradition in a lot of families including mine. If you destroy party hunting this idea would never work! We hunt to see big bucks, We hunt for fun, we hunt for meat, and we hunt to spend time with the ones we love! By taking away the right to hunt where you want you will destroy the family ties of hunting! What happens when only one of a family of ten gets a tag in the area there cabin is and the others all get another?

Lastly, I love the way you can see the diversity of hunters on this site! It amazes me the help, support, and criticism we can give each other! Good luck and stay safe!

[smilee_54]

A “party” is defined as any group of two or more licensed deer hunters

who are all afield; hunting together at the same time; and all

using firearms (including muzzleloaders) or all using archery. So all the guys saying that all the guys that want to get rid of party hunting hunt my themselves. In the regulations (note the copy and paste in this response. It is also legal to tag a deer for other party members as long as you are not tagging for a youth. • Any member of a party meeting this definition may kill a deer for any

other member of the party who has an unused tag valid for that deer.