Crops Gone, deer nocturnal, meat poles empty. 5 goofy years.

[Musky Buck]

Just checking my journal, I didn't realize the past 5 years have been so shaky, I've fired 1 Barney Fife bullet in the past 5 years. Anyway, my area I defintely heard the least amount of shooting ever and driving by the neighboring places etc. they had nothing hanging in their yards this year. The switch from old zone 4 to zone 2 is my first thought, it has hurt a lot of us in the area, 9 straight days of pressure,scent,trucks driving across the fields 45min. before you can shoot sends them for thick dense bedding cover, we no longer get that progression from the fields to where we hunt because they are already spooked for the day. I have 4 properties separated by many miles, in these past 5 years I have seen 1 shootable buck plus having extra days to hunt and muzzleloader also, I have sat for 81 hunts in these 5 years to see that 1 shooter. Figured good crops are gone, restricts where they can be, but no daylight movement or very minimal, I realize how critical it is to connect opening morning or you can nearly forget seeing a mature buck after opening day, the 5 years prior had way more sightings, way more bucks seen with rifle in hand, way more excitement heading out to 1 of my 5 stands, these past 5years you just feel it won't happen that you're lucky to see any deer at all. My journal says 112 deer seen with 18 bucks in the previous 5 years and 29 deer seen in the past 5 years with 4 being bucks. Talking all private land in central MN and after opener you almost could stay home. Now tonight, I'm in zone 1 hunting a farm that hasn't been touched in years, grabbed my trailcam and if I could hunt at midnight I'd be in business, not 1 daylight deer on a farm that has corn and beans harvested on it, a farm where deer from other areas should've moved into, how do you get at them without driving them to see any of them ? Why so nocturnal ? Anyone else in my boat a bit ? I should add those 3 central MN properties have accounted over the years for many mature bucks, is there just that many fewer around but our trailcams prove otherwise, just some rambling post-zone 2 deer analysis. Even if you did connect opening day, how'd the other 8 days go for you? My thinking is with every field in my areas getting pressured, they are already near or in bed for the day once shooting light occurs. Any thoughts on these past 5 years especially after opening day ?

[hockeybc69]

Havent pulled the trigger with my rifle on a deer since opening day of 2004.

Granted I am hunting for a "shooter" buck with my rifle. So plenty of antlerless deer have been passed up with the rifle. I just choose to use my bow or muzzy for some venison if I want to take an antlerless deer.

My cams are void of any buck movement during legal light starting right about Oct 1st. Prior to that I get a few pics, of deer during the day.

I hear so much about hitting the woods hard for a few days prior to rifle season to get a crack at those rutting bucks. For several years we tried that, and decided that not being in the woods prior to rifle might help the gun hunt. We werent seeing any buck activity with bows, and neither with the rifles.

I am at a loss. I checked my 3 cams that I had out and the previous week to rifle season, I had one cam with 9 differnet bucks including 3 for sure shooter 8 pt bucks. Every pic was dark. The other 2 cams I had some buck activity, but one pic right after legal light on a buck, but not what we would shoot.

My dilemma is that I know there are deer around every year. But where they go and why they are so afraid to move during daylight is a headscratcher....

PS - we are in area 240

[candiru]

Baiting have them more nocturnal?

[hoppe56307]

Don't Feel bad i have been hunting for the last 10 years between areas 215 and 218 and this was the first year that i have seen a buck with more than 6 pts, and the first time i have seen multiple bucks. As far as seeing deer after opening weekend this was also the first time in a long time I have seen deer on the second weekend, and noticably less shooting on the second weekend as well, I counted with one hand the number of shots on the last sunday.

[candiru]

More 4-wheelers running around, grouse hunting activity, poaching at night? Just throwing some things out there.

[Bear55]

Musky time for you to puck up the bow and extend your hunting season!

I think what you are seeing is the deer getting smarter or getting shot. They may not be getting smarter in the traditional sense but they are reacting to our pressure and old patterns are broken by a lot of human presence. We have to adapt just like the deer if we want to be successful hunting them. I use to hunt the food, then I switched to the travel routes, now its the beds.

[creepworm]

I am also in 240. For us, morning hunts are just about worthless, we have done much better on evening hunts. Also, mid week has been better than opening weekend. There is a several square mile swamp near us and I think the pressure forces them in there and by mid-week they start to get hungry and start venturing out.

[McGurk]

Fellow zone 240 guy here, and I have to concur with the last 5 years. I've hunted the same 160 acres my whole life (about 20 hunting years). I've seen doe permits get more plentiful, intensive harvest years come and go, and management tags now go empty. This year was as frustrating as ever, with only 1 deer (no shot) sighted by me during shootable hours. I posted more this year from Sunday to Thursday than I probably have in the last 4 years combined, and only saw one deer total.

Granted, On Saturday (I had a wedding/reception hours away to attend) the rest of my hunting party went 2-7 while tramping through the wooded 80 acres, plus one great 12+ pt buck taken Sun morn at 7:30. I had the woods to myself from Mon to Thurs, crops were down, moon was up during the day, and I was attempting to work the wind for posting locations. I don't know what else to say, other than it's 50 weeks until the next hunt, and I hope it works out better next year.

I hunt with a semi-frustrating party, as they really like driving the 80 acres of woods on the 160 acres we hunt. On both days we post until 8:30, get donuts and coffee, drive from 10 til 11:30, lunch til 1:30, drive til 3, and post til dark. Year after year we fill out the neighboring hunters tags while we do these ridiculous drives. I'd rather have everyone stay out of the woods all day on Sat (except to get to and from your stand, of course), and then go crazy on Sunday if there are still tags to be filled. My Dad says they always get deer from those drives, but I see more deer getting Sat morn than the entire rest of the weekend every year during the first post.

The other frustrating part of our party is the lack of management/structure. I do like the guys, and it is a very loose and friendly party, with my Dad and myself hunting with the landowner and his sons and grandsons. I don't think I can pipe up too loud as we have hunted there for free for decades. They also have no problem shooting forks and small 6's/8's, yet come Sunday afternoon no one other than my Dad and myself want to take the deer that are hanging. I've shot many does, a fork in one of my first years, and a decent 10 about 10 years ago. I don't know how long it will be until I see a nice buck again.

Just venting, I guess.

[mabr]

MuskyBuck, I was in the same boat as you but in Douglas County. No mature bucks in the last 4-5 years. Son had his muzzleloader snap on him during firearms (2008) on a HUGE buck during midweek when everyone else had gone home for the week. He still says it was a Booner. Other than that deer, we haven’t seen one shooter in a very long time. Alot of smaller bucks and does have been shot by party members but no BIG deer,. Until, this year.

I gave my 2 best stands that I always see deer from, to my middle son who has only one deer under his belt and it was a while ago. I gave the other to his best friend, first year hunter. I wanted them to have a chance at any legal buck, and they both seen deer opening morning. Son- 2 small bucks and 3 does, Friend 3 bucks 2 small and one 8 that someone ran to him and 1 doe. I on the other hand headed to the opposite side of the pine forest we were all in. It’s an area where does are frequently seen traveling from feeding to bedding with a few small openings with grass growing and one cattail slew. I didn’t expect to see much except does and that didn’t bother me, I had a buck on another property that I planned on hunting after our traditional opener in Douglas county.

Right at sunup I caught movement just inside the pines but all I could see were legs. Later in the morning the usual does started showing up but i kept thinking about the legs I had seen just inside the edge. That night I made my mind up. I was going right in the pines, where I had seen the legs and make a ground blind. I’ve done it in the past but it always was near my old faithful stands. I always seen deer doing this, BUT eventually the deer knew it and vacated the area for the rest of the season. Well I knew we weren’t going to be hunting all week and figured it was a one shot chance if I got busted or they smelt me after I left oh well.. I set up right at daylight just barely enough light to see walking in.Cut some limbs of the pines made a comfy blind that took about 5 minutes to make. I hadn’t been set up for more than 5 minutes when I heard twigs snapping and got ready. Mind you this is a 15-20 year old pine forest about 40 acres in size. You can’t see far at all without looking down rows. I seen him at about 50 yards and knew right away he was a shooter, as soon as he stepped into the first opening I fired. He is the largest buck weve taken from this land to date. I didn’t realize it until I went to where he was standing when I shot but I had entered his bedding area. There were untold rubs right where I shot him and his beds were clearly visible. I feel certain that deer would have never been killed had I not went in where he was bedding. It was lucky on my part as I didn’t know it, but I seen what I believe was him the previous morning and took a chance. It was a onetime only deal as I’m sure, had I not been at least a little close I would have never known he was there and he would have smelled me and been gone. But heck I still wouldn’t have had a chance at him had I not taken the risk.

IMO, all the years that I have hunted my “2 good stands” It has taught the mature deer to stay away from those areas once the first sign of us being in there starts,(except when following does). I’ve always known it was a bedding area, and I always waited until it was later in the season before I ventured into it. Not anymore I’ll tell you that. I guarantee I’ll be in them once again next year, but it will be a 1 time deal or bust. Here the pic of him where he layed after the shot. Nice 10 with 1- 1.75 sticker at his base, scores 143 5/8, weighed over 220.

[McGurk]

Nice deer, mabr. Nice deer.

[reinhard1]

awesome buck mabr! great picture. good luck.

[Musky Buck]

Wow Mabr, that deer looks so much like the t-cam deer I was after lol, area 240 here also, if you aren't in the Leaf River Bottom area it seems to get tougher the further away from it you are near where I hunt the most. I appreciate the input guys and lots of it makes perfect sense, i try field edges,swamp,willows,cattails,bedding ground sometimes leaving my stand to watch the trail in the thickest part, just 1 trail and likely the big guys route but no luck or it gets too dark and can't tell and shooting light goes then I have to try to get out of there. you name it but I don't even hear them in the brush or water or whatever and I get there roughly 45 min to an hour before legal light just to see if that's what is up, then I'll sit until noonish, back out usually to a new unhunted stand miles away and I keep rotating around according to sign and tracks and wind direction etc. I'm not alone, many of the guys in the area are wondering as well, I often get asked if I see anything, I tell them no, but most don't believe it as they think I have the cats meow of the land in 2 of the 4 areas, but it's been the truth the past 5years for sure, take out opening day and I've seen very little. Always figured 3 of 4 properties aren't hunted so I will c deer but that hasn't been the case lately. I like that puck up the bow as I love hockey Bear55, I think you are right though, I think I could pattern somewhat a mature buck for bow season especially with the hundreds of oaks I could perch in. At least I'd see a fair amount of deer and that would be enjoyable in itself, the past 5 years have been very odd, I think the mature does even understand daylight travel is dangerous bedding down with that buck, chase at night, eat at night, digest half of the nights supper, fill the tank full before daybreak and go hide until darkness falls again seems to be the pattern. Just seems like how during old zone 4A, 2 day season, used to c 20 deer per season or so, now with 9 days I c maybe 1/2 that or less and I usually only count what I could shoot from my stand not deer seen driving home etc.

[nonteepical]

I hunt 240 also (sounds like too many hunters) and i passed 6 different 1.5 year old bucks during the season and my trail cameras only caught 2 mature 10 pointers, on monday following opener and they were in the dark. mature bucks are pretty much nocturnal for the most part any way. it's a 25 minute drive from my house to my hunting property and never saw a deer, morning or evening, driving to and from hunting the whole season or archery for that matter, so i don't think the numbers are there in my opinion.

[Bear55]

A lot of it is just a numbers game. Less deer can often mean less bucks slipping through the cracks and reaching old age. Not to mention far less competition for does. Way up north we use to get 2-3 nice deer a year with 10-14 hunters. Now deer numbers are down and we might get 1 nice buck every other year. Half the guys shoot anything so I just go with the flow and take what is given to me. I get a nice one every 4-6 years.

[hockeybc69]

Here is a harvest tally for 2002 to 2009 for permit area 240(formerly 411).

from 2002 to 2007 the middle two columns are swapped on the harvest reports. So just flip flop those numbers. For example for the 2007 numbers, its 2071 adult females and 751 fawn males actually.

[fr0sty]

I hunt one of the properties next to muskie buck. I have been getting a good number of deer on my trail cameras. There is a wide mix of does, young bucks and two or three good mature bucks. Even starting in early October, 99% of all the deer pics are outside of legal shooting hours. Our land gets almost no hunting pressure during bow season.

I don't have many years of hunting history, so this is the first year I have been selective on the deer I shoot. I saw a number of deer during the firearms season, just not mature bucks. We are pretty lucky as most of the people around our area let the small bucks walk.

From talking with relatives and neighbors, there is a fair number of mature deer in our area. They are just playing hard to get!

[mabr]

Not in 240 here. Were in 273 near Kensington Holmes City area.

I've seen the same thing most on here are seeing in our area. I've often blamed it on the yotes more than the over harvest during the late 90s early 2000's. But IMO at least on our properties I think with the limited doe tags there starting to come back again. Although not the numbers previously, were seeing more deer on some of our land we hunt. I expect it to only get better as time goes by.

One other thing I've noticed MuskyB sense losing the A, B seasons is alot Less driving being done. IMO people aren't moving the deer like they used to. At least in our area You could sit in a wide open field and have deer running at anytime of the day due to drives being made all over the area.

[mabr]

Thanks guys on the congrats.

Wanted to put the pics and show where he was killed and show how thick it was in there. Couldnt see more that 50 yards in the best of situations.

[PurpleFloyd]

Great deer MABR. Congrats on that and also for doing the right thing in setting up your son's friend. Good things come to those......

[creepworm]

The deer drive theory is interesting. I know we used to drive just about every piece of cover we had to hunt. Now with a 10 day season and the hunting group getting older, we rarely do a drive. This could explain the less deer movement in our area. Even if we did not see them when we chased them up, they eventually would want to head back to where they feel comfortable and someone might see them then.

Almost everyone I talk to thinks the seasons should be shortened, 10 days is just to much pressure, along with bow hunting and muzzleloading becoming more popular, I believe that is too much pressure and is forcing deer to be more nocturnal.

[archerystud]

Nice deer there Mabr.

My land borders the MN river and with all of the Fall flooding I figured the hunting would suck for us. I was told that my land was 14 feet under water and judging by some of the beaver chews that I've seen, I believe it.

With no crops in the bottoms I was hoping at least a few deer had filtered back in. To my surprise after the water had receded the deer had worked their way back in and the deer sign was pretty good. It also somewhat routed the deer a bit so that their trails were more "clusterd". Also even though our food plots were flooded it seemed as the deer really like to eat some of the new growth were our plots had been.

For the first time ever (in 30 years of hunting) my dad and I both got shots at mature bucks. I classify that as a 3.5 year old or better. Maybe we were just lucky but I was happy to see my dad get a nice buck after years of passing up smaller ones. He took it to the taxidermist on Mon.

[Steve Foss]

Definitely nocturnal where I've been hunting.

Since I'm essentially hunting alone this season (did get to get in on a few 2-man drives with a buddy yesterday), the nocturnal deer are pushing my odds way down. They've gone nocturnal up here in the boreal forest, as well as where I was hunting in more open woodlands/farms the last couple of days. I was in a managed unit Monday and yesterday between Nashwauk and Bovey, with a fair amount of fresh deer sign. All of it left overnight.

Times like that you need a handful of folks to set up drives and get those deer moving. I've been involved in drives before quite a bit, and while I do most of my hunting alone either sitting or still hunting, if done right, drives can be safe. Had one buck heading right for me through the woods on one of those 2-man drives, but it sprinted in a circle and got around and behind the driver before either of us could get a shot.

I've got a day or two of solid work today and tomorrow, and then plan on spending the last three days still hunting or sitting up here. I love any time I can spend out in this wonderful boreal forest, but there IS a bit of that hopeless feeling. It only takes one deer with antlers to put My Cousin Vennie in the freezer, and if that happens 10 seconds before the bell rings on Sunday afternoon, that's fine with me.

Any kind of horns will be fine, though I wouldn't mind seeing one like Mabr's stop 100 yards out broadside.

[Musky Buck]

It's been pretty tough frosty, it seems the tougher the weather the better the swamp hunt is, need that thing frozen over, but then a few deer on the daylight hoof, the deer drive factor, much less of that going on as having extra days why drive where you want to hunt and if several of the guys get a deer no one is left in camp to help make drives, maybe that's a bigger piece of the equation then I thought, if the bedding grounds go undisturbed they'll hang in there and not search out a new refuge so to speak, people aren't feeling that urge to push them as no big deal if we don't rifle connect, we have another longer 16 day muzzy season ahead of us. Tried Zone 1 last night, saw 0, tracks around, went to get the mail at about 8PM and in the combined corn across the road with snow on the ground here I could see 10 or so feeding away, got to keep strategizin, looks to be a cold or at least very chilly muzzy season approaching if the forecasters are correct. Thanks for the analysis.

[Red Miller]

Musky, I dont think you are alone. We had a tough hunt this year as well over in 247. Permits were way down and so were the numbers of deer. The three of us hunt public land so, as said elsewhere, Im not too fussy about what I shoot as long as its legal. Anyway, no permits, no deer hanging and no shootable deer during the season. Many hours in the woods. I think I will try a state forest in Zone 1 on Saturday for a last ditch effort to put some venison in the freezer but its not lookin' good at this stage of the game. We do love our deer hunting and spend many hours and days in preparation. Its kind of a sinking feeling driving back to the city deerless but thats part of the game as well.

I have been getting 6 to 8 deer at the feeder ever night since being home including a very large 8. Chasing, fighting, All the mayhem starts after dark.

[hockeybc69]

Hey Musky,

Did you catch the harvest chart I put on the first page of this thread?

I sure hope when the numbers come out this year we dont see another downward trend.

Here is a winter population count that the DNR did via plane last winter for Ottertail county.