Antler Point Restrictions and Slot Limits?

[Hoyt4]

The goal should be to have a healthy deer herd not trying to satisfy hunters status so they feel good they shot a big deer.I know I feel a lot better when I'm out scouting knocking on doors and putting in he work.Seems like a lot but there are a ton of big deer in our state just need to do the work.

[Bear55]

No bear they don't. Slots have an equal benefit/sacrifice ratio across the spectrum. You are being obtuse.

I guess I could say the same for you. I'm still waiting for you to explain to me how someone putting in more time hunting or fishing has an unfair advantage over someone putting in much less time when the rules and regulations are the same for both of them.

[PEATMOSS]

Do you have a nice fishing rig?

[96trigger]

Quote:

Trigger-My favorite deer for steaks and chops is in fact a yearling, for roasts and burger, the bigger the better. Our harvest is usually a mix of the 2 which is nice.

Funny, mine too. I just don't claim to call them mature deer. Yearlings are tasty though. Are you asking me about the nice fishing boat? The answer would be yes and no, its old, but its clean and works.

[PEATMOSS]

I was asking Bear, since he lives much closer, but I'd certainly extend the same invite to you.

I was gonna offer to meet Bear at a lake somwhere between our places. I'd spring for dinner, bring beverages and bait and we could just kick this thing around for an evening. My boat is a tub.

It would be an evening for Bear and I Trigger, probably not practical for you. But if you're ever up this way, I wouldn't mind spending an evening fishing with you either.

[Bear55]

He might be asking me, no I don't have a nice fishing rig but it does the job.

[96trigger]

Quote:

bear, some cliffs notes for you.

slot limits-equal sacrifice/equal benifit regardless of ones level of participation

apr's-disproportionally favor avid hunters and landowners

If my county adds $1000 to everyones property taxes county wide, it's the same law for everyone, but it's gonna affect people differently. Tracking?

I've been pondering this for awhile. I think you are reaching for something that isn't there. Are you trying to tie APR and slots in with economic status? What about those that can't afford a boat? Are they like those that can't afford land? Sure they can catch a walleye offshore, but it gets a lot tougher.

I think the APR will benefit more people and it will be every bit as equal as slot limits. I don't have to buy or lease hundreds of acres anymore (not that I did in the first place). Public land or a 10 acre chunk of woods will be fine. Why? Because everybody has to manage deer equally now. I can pass on small bucks now on public land, knowing that they will probably make it to next year. Previously, I've passed on many of those small bucks on public land, knowing they were going to probably get shot.

[96trigger]

Peat, we could talk wrestling or football, but maybe on a lake, we better stay away from regulations....LOL

[PEATMOSS]

Peat, we could talk wrestling or football, but maybe on a lake, we better stay away from regulations....LOL

You might be surprised, we quibble over details, but I can honestly say that I have only one fundamental difference with most of you.

Wrestling would be a good side topic. Ever notice the further we get from high school and college, the better we were.

[Getanet]

Hey, would you guys quite playing nice.

Back to your corners, get ready for round three, and come out swinging!

[BobT]

Quote:

Really? I have never had a problem identfying a spike buck or a basket rack. Zone 3 is shotgun, if they are too far away to identify, they are probably too far away to shoot for the "average" hunter.

You must have much better eyesight than I do and with my glasses on I have 20-20 vision. First, it's more than just identifying the difference between a spike and a basket. The basket on my brother-in-laws 6-pointer last year set a new state record and the deer was over 230 pounds dressed. He was a well seasoned buck but his genes didn't create a lot of points on his rack. Rack points and age don't always go hand-in-hand.

This past year my daughter took a 6-pointer and an 8-pointer on opening day and I would bet neither of them were over 2-1/2 years old.

Four years ago my daughter wounded an 8-pointer. Shortly after he bolted out of the area, she happened to see a deer in the woods about 75 yards away. I could not find it with naked eyes but with the scope I could see him standing there looking at me. At that moment I could not tell whether I was looking at a buck or doe. With APR requiring that I not only identify it as a buck but also must be able to determine the number of points on the rack, I would never have shot at that deer. Fortunately, because my daughter was only 12 and able to take either sex and having a strong suspicion that she had just wounded one moments before, I took him with my 30-06 because he was too far for the .410 she was using.

After we found him I found her exit wound. When we skinned him out we were able to determine that my shot hit bone and the bullet or part of it turned and tracked down his neckline. Her shot was possibly a little farther back than desired but it would have been fatal either way. In this case, APR would have been the cause for a nice buck dying a slow agonizing death.

[harvey lee]

I haven't seen anyone that supports APR yet provide what they are asking for in terms of point restrictions. What is your proposal? Must have at least a fork, 3 on a side, 12, what? I might be more interested in accepting APR if I knew more about what you are asking me to do.

I know right now that this will start a whole new war but here we go.

For me, I would like to see at a minimum all forkhorns and six pointers left along.

APR would never be the cause of a buvk dying.

Thats what happens when a person shoots at a buck and does not know what they are shooting at. The other reason the buck may have died a slow death is from a poorly placed shot.

Could just as well have been a doe.

[Bear55]

PEAT if I can free up some time I will take you up on that but I wouldn't count on it. You know work, family, other projects. I'm sure you're a great guy but I have friends and family I don't get to see or fish with too often so sometimes internet invites have to take a back seat. Thanks for your gracious offer.

Now back on topic, I have to agree with Trigger, I just don't see how one group of avid outdoorsmen have some great advantage over another group of avid outdoorsmen. Those more dedicated to their sport will always have more success.

[harvey lee]

BobT

What 6pt buck dressed at 230# is a state record, the rack? I have shot deer that dressed in excess of that so I am assuming that the 6pt must be a new state record.

May I ask what that deer scored for a state record?

[Bear55]

I think we need to see some pics of this famous 6 pointer, I doubt its the basket rack you keep describing it as BobT.

Harvey I don't think its a real state record, just a really big mature 6 point buck which are pretty rare and very much a trophy deer in most people eyes. I'm sure it doesn't score well but is a brute.

[PEATMOSS]

Perhaps someday Bear, just my attempt at civility.

I laid out my argument as best I could, really seems like apples/oranges to me.We're gonna just have to agree to disagree. It's alot like your side trying to say that targetting the most viable, healthy specimens of a population will somehow strengthen the herds' health. Just doesn't seem logical any way you put it.

[BobT]

You're right, Harvey. The first shot may have been poorly placed...or not. I did say that I felt it might have been placed a bit too far back and I also figure it was a little high but I also know it was a fatal shot because it took his lungs. Realize too that the gun she used was a .410 and it was 20 minutes into the first day of her first ever experience at deer hunting at the age of 12. I think she did just fine and probably better than most of us could have done.

The only reason I was able to take him was because he was injured enough to ignore our commotion as we switched chairs and I adjusted my scope twice. He stood there the whole time while this was going on and my only explanation for that was that he was hurt bad. Even the best placed shots will not drop a deer in its tracks. I've had does run for 30 yards with no heart. If you've never hunted in northern MN on the iron range you might want to think a little bit about what kind of forest we are hunting in. To actually spot that deer from 75 yards was a feat in itself. You're lucky to be able to see anything beyond about 40 yards on a good day. Not until I cranked my scope up to 7X was I able to see it and even then all I could see was its eyes, part of its front shoulder and belly line, which is what gave me the target area.

There was no blood or hair found where she took her shot. The higher shot placement let him bleed internally and so there was no trail to follow. The .410 slug did not mushroom to create a large exit wound. I could not see antlers and had it been required to count points I would have been forced to let him die because I did not know it was the same deer.

You can talk smart all you want and claim it was a poorly placed shot and you may or may not be accurate but I would love to be there the day you end up having to track a wounded deer so I could walk behind you a laugh my rear off while you sweat.

[nonteepical]

post a pic of the darn 6 pointer for cryin' out loud

[smnduck]

Slot limits are inplace to make sure that there is adult fish in the population to

1 Reproduce

2 Be big enough to be a important predator

Antler points are for Horn Porn addicts to get their fix.

[psepuncher]

all's I know is I'm going to need a cow catcher on my truck.

After all these monsters get on every highway the insurance companies are going to have their hands full.

and remember.

• Slow down and blow your horn with one long blast to frighten the deer away. If it doesn't move, use your high-beam headlights to see the deer better. you may need to count his points before proceeding.

[mabr]

Peat, I wish I were closer id take you up for sure. Not sure if it was your or Bruledrifter last year (when we were hashing this same argument) that I said id buy if we did. But as bear said its tuff with all our family obligations and fishing going on it gets tough being so far away. But maybe one of these days.

I also understand your statement about us not being that far off on agreeing. I "think" I know what you are saying, you just dont want it regulated. But instead push by education and choice. I think from reading most of the posts on this, The people who are for this would agree with that if it were practicle. As Trigger said to see that buck we have let go numurous times be taken by the neighbor who wont work with you it becomes very frustrating and we feel it (regulation) is the only option.

[PurpleFloyd]

One glaring difference between the two is that the slot limits don't stop you from catching fish, it just limits the ones you can keep. So if you enjoy fishing you can hook them all day long if they cooperate and at the end of the day you still got to enjoy catching the fish.

With deer hunting I am not aware of any catch and release scenario that would make them at all similar. You can sit and watch the deer go by I suppose but the essence of the hunt is to take game not watch it and you can't throw the small ones back once you do.

Hopefully none of this ever carries over to my spring passion of striped gopher hunting or to Pheasant hunting. The day I have to judge whether the tailfeather is at least 22 inches long or the gophers tail is at least 4 inches will be a sad day indeed.

[psepuncher]

well purp this is where you have a difference of water and land.

So the real question is.................

what's the best bait to use?

[PurpleFloyd]

well purp this is where you have a difference of water and land.

So the real question is.................

what's the best bait to use?

You bait your deer?

Oh darn, sounds like the start of another contentious thread

[candiru]

I think that the deer are looked at as more of a "winter food supply". You are messing with a lot more meat. Different lakes tend to have different slots or no slots. It's easy to take your boat and fish another lake. It is not so easy to move the hunting land, that has been in the family, to another area that does not have APR. You can measure your fish and let it go. Shoot a "doe" that turns out to have 4" spikes or what you thought was an "8 pointer" that does not have brow tines and your hosed. We have much more opportunties to fish. Deer season is short and opportunities can be limited. Bad weather, hot weather, or standing corn can ruin your weekend to hunt. I hunt in the real world,not on some TV show where the deer always seem to be calmly feeding and unmolested and there is all the time in the world to judge it.