Party hunting question

[BobT]

Quote:

A “party” is defined as any group of two or more licensed deer hunters who are all afield; hunting together at the same time; and all using firearms (including muzzleloaders) or all using archery.

This is one of the points in the handbook where party hunting is defined. It brings up an interesting question.

Suppose my 16-year old daughter and I are hunting together. This means we have formed a party. My daughter takes a deer opening morning and uses her tag on it. Because I would rather she got the opportunity to take another deer rather than me filling my tag, I decide I’ll just assist her with the hunt and not fill my tag myself, which is perfectly legal because we are both licensed. Since I don’t intend to fill my tag I decide why bother carrying a firearm so I go unarmed and just plan on doing a little waking to hopefully get deer moving and maybe give her an opportunity.

Are we now in violation of the party hunting rules? Do I actually have to carry a legal firearm in order for her to fill my tag?

My thought is that the description above is intended to clarify that you can’t mix firearms hunters with archery hunters in the same party. I suspect that the rule was not written to imply that the hunters in the party with open tags had to be armed. Either way, I could see where this could be argued in court if a CO was to issue a citation.

[maros91]

Quote:

A “party” is defined as any group of two or more licensed deer hunters who are all afield; hunting together at the same time; and all using firearms (including muzzleloaders) or all using archery.

This is one of the points in the handbook where party hunting is defined. It brings up an interesting question.

Suppose my 16-year old daughter and I are hunting together. This means we have formed a party. My daughter takes a deer opening morning and uses her tag on it. Because I would rather she got the opportunity to take another deer rather than me filling my tag, I decide I’ll just assist her with the hunt and not fill my tag myself, which is perfectly legal because we are both licensed. Since I don’t intend to fill my tag I decide why bother carrying a firearm so I go unarmed and just plan on doing a little waking to hopefully get deer moving and maybe give her an opportunity.

Are we now in violation of the party hunting rules? Do I actually have to carry a legal firearm in order for her to fill my tag?

My thought is that the description above is intended to clarify that you can’t mix firearms hunters with archery hunters in the same party. I suspect that the rule was not written to imply that the hunters in the party with open tags had to be armed. Either way, I could see where this could be argued in court if a CO was to issue a citation.

"All using firearms" is the key. Just bring one with just to be sure.

[John478]

I think you would be just fine as long as you have a license.

I think the party hunting rule pretains more to the taging of deer then any thing. It doesn't mean that a guy with a firearms license and a archery license can't hunt together they just can't tag each others deer.

[pulleye16]

Boy thats a great question but something tells me thats illegal. That would be the same as my mom buy a liscense never intending to use it or go out hunting (which essencially you are doing not bringing out a gun) just so I could shoot two deer. I think one of the key words in that paragraph is "HUNTING". I know what your thinking...my mom is probably in the cabin where your at least out in the field with your daughter...thats what makes it tought to answer. I'd bring a gun just to be safe and make to make sure your legit....and who knows, maybe that 30 point buck will walk past you!

[candiru]

Just strap on a 9mm pistol

[Monkster]

I do the same exact thing with my 12 year old son. Since I have to be with him (at this age), I interpreting the law as we both have a firearm, even though he is the only one carrying one. If I really needed to shoot, he could hand the gun to me.

[Fish&Fowl]

I've wondered the logic behind using the same weapon when conisdering a "party."

If I have an archery tag, but I fill my rifle tag during the rifle season, I can no longer use my bow the way I read. So I can go out and fill everyone's tag with my rifle, but if I want to try going out with my bow I can't unless someone else is bow hunting. Doesn't make a lot of sense.

And if I have friends who want to black-powder hunt during the special late season, I can't even use my bow if I want to hunt with them. Seems like a money-making scheme.

[DonBo]

I wouldn't even consider going afield without a firearm. What if she wounds one and maybe needs a long tough shot to finish it? Bring the gun...

[96trigger]

Fish, you can still hunt with your bow as long as you are legally licensed. You just can't use somoeone elses tag. You are not considered one of their party.

The only case where you wouldn't be able to use your bow, was if you were in a lotto area and your tag was used up. Then you would be forced to party hunt if you wanted to continue hunting because your archery tag would essentially be tag soup.

Fish&Fowl, can you explain the situation better, are you in a lottery area?

[ANYFISH2]

Good question! I know groups that do drives through some thick stuff, none of the drivers carry a weapon, they are only pushing to the standers. So by some peoples logic they are not part of the party?

I my opinion some are looking to literal at the wording. Those drivers are legally licensed for the season and in the field actively participating in the hunt with the others in the party. I believe that it would still be a legal "party". As I do believe that sitting in a stand with one's daughter and not carrying two weapons would still constitute a party situation. Because both are licenced and actively participating in the hunt together.

[BrdHunter01]

Are you confused by the wording? Our MN DNR would never confuse anyone reading into their regulations

[picksbigwagon]

The DNR doesn't create the rules, the legislature does, that is why they look goofy sometimes or are hard to interpret....

[BobT]

Here’s another interesting twist to this rule. Suppose she shoots a deer in the morning and we tag it with my tag. If she takes a deer and fills her own tag it doesn’t matter if she’s part of a party or not and it’s not illegal for me to be in the woods without a firearm. Because I am licensed I can legally assist her in the taking of a deer on her tag and I don’t have to be carrying a firearm.

So basically it sounds as though the person whose tag is used on the deer must be in possession of a firearm AND be a member of the party.

[Fish&Fowl]

Fish, you can still hunt with your bow as long as you are legally licensed. You just can't use somoeone elses tag. You are not considered one of their party.

The only case where you wouldn't be able to use your bow, was if you were in a lotto area and your tag was used up. Then you would be forced to party hunt if you wanted to continue hunting because your archery tag would essentially be tag soup.

Fish&Fowl, can you explain the situation better, are you in a lottery area?

I am in a lottery area this year yes. But even if I wasn't, here's my point. Everyone in our camp hunts with a rifle. I do too, but also have an archery tag from archery season. Now say I fill my firearms tag, I can no longer hunt with a bow because no one else is. So I can go out and stack up deer with my rifle, but if I want the challenge of a bow to try to arrow another deer (which I wouldn't unless someone else wanted meat or it was a wall-hanger), I couldn't.

We don't fill each other's tag after we've filled our own unless the deer is exceptionally big. We practice QDM and don't try to fill every tag, but it would just be fun to take the bow out after I got a deer.

I can't understand why I can shoot everyone else's deer but I couldn't arrow one. I realize I could use someone else's tag so I could still bow hunt, but what's the difference?

[bigbucks]

I understand your logic, but it would be so difficult to try to enforce that. My guess is that a CO might have the discretion to say that was okay being you had a firearm license, but by the letter of the law, it's not okay.

Certainly why should it matter, but kind of confusing to enforce. "So let me get this straight, this dude shot one with a bow & there's a rifle tag on it" Hmm, it wasn't shot Friday night before rifle season opened, when your rifle tag wasn't yet valid & your bow tag was gone was it? Hmm, you know people would find all kinds of ways to twist that making the CO's job that much harder.

[96trigger]

Quote:

Now say I fill my firearms tag, I can no longer hunt with a bow because no one else is.

If you are not in a lottery zone, you can hunt with them, with your bow. Can you please show me where it says you can't? I am 99% sure that you can. You just can't cross tag with them.

[Fish&Fowl]

Quote:

Now say I fill my firearms tag, I can no longer hunt with a bow because no one else is.

If you are not in a lottery zone, you can hunt with them, with your bow. Can you please show me where it says you can't? I am 99% sure that you can. You just can't cross tag with them.

I am in a lottery zone for this year. But a "party" is defined as a group hunting with bows only or firearms only. If I can't cross-tag and my rifle tag is filled, how can I tag a deer I arrow when everyone else has only firearms tags?

[96trigger]

Your archery tag is still good for the entire archery season. You are just not considered part of their party.

You are thinking about it the old way. Your archery tag is not void after you use your regular firearm. It would still be valid if you were in a managed area.

It goes by bag limit. You can use any method to take the deer as long as the season is open, and you are licensed, and you don't go over the limit in that area.

[Fish&Fowl]

Okay I think I got it figured out now, thanks for the replies!

[96trigger]

Too bad you are in a lotto, you could still be bow hunting.

[maros91]

So basically it sounds as though the person whose tag is used on the deer must be in possession of a firearm AND be a member of the party.

Yes and they must be physically out there hunting and not back at the shack. Thats just like me shooting one and calling back home and telling my neighbor to bring his tag out. They have to be physically hunting with you from the way I see it.

[Big Dave2]

Quote:

A “party” is defined as any group of two or more licensed deer hunters who are all afield; hunting together at the same time; and all using firearms (including muzzleloaders) or all using archery.

This is one of the points in the handbook where party hunting is defined. It brings up an interesting question.

Suppose my 16-year old daughter and I are hunting together. This means we have formed a party. My daughter takes a deer opening morning and uses her tag on it. Because I would rather she got the opportunity to take another deer rather than me filling my tag, I decide I’ll just assist her with the hunt and not fill my tag myself, which is perfectly legal because we are both licensed. Since I don’t intend to fill my tag I decide why bother carrying a firearm so I go unarmed and just plan on doing a little waking to hopefully get deer moving and maybe give her an opportunity.

Are we now in violation of the party hunting rules? Do I actually have to carry a legal firearm in order for her to fill my tag?

My thought is that the description above is intended to clarify that you can’t mix firearms hunters with archery hunters in the same party. I suspect that the rule was not written to imply that the hunters in the party with open tags had to be armed. Either way, I could see where this could be argued in court if a CO was to issue a citation.

To me it's pretty simple. You are assisting your daughter in taking game with a firearm so in my opinion you are lisenced, afield, and part of a hunting party. No problems.

[BobT]

The part that is throwing the kink into the equation is the word "and."

My daughter could legally fill my tag only if she is part of my hunting party. In order for that to be true if I read this correctly, we're not a hunting party unless we are "all afield"; "hunting together at the same time" AND "all using firearms..."

If I'm not using a firearm then I am not in her party and therefore she cannot fill my tag.

What you have eluded to is the other twist to the law. She would not have to be using a firearm to assist me with filling my own tag. In that case, we would not be party hunting because I would be hunting to fill my own tag. She would merely be assisting me. She could do that because she is still licensed even though she already spent her tag.

[ANYFISH2]

Bob I understand your question. Although I do not believe that It requires you both to have a seperate firearm. You are still sitting together hunting with the one firearm. I look at it like the past season when you could take out your 10-11 year old hunting but had to tag the deer with the adults license.

I would love if Lou could clarify this for us if he could. It seems like a gray area none of us really know the perfect answer to.

[Big Dave2]

The part that is throwing the kink into the equation is the word "and."

My daughter could legally fill my tag only if she is part of my hunting party. In order for that to be true if I read this correctly, we're not a hunting party unless we are "all afield"; "hunting together at the same time" AND "all using firearms..."

If I'm not using a firearm then I am not in her party and therefore she cannot fill my tag.

What you have eluded to is the other twist to the law. She would not have to be using a firearm to assist me with filling my own tag. In that case, we would not be party hunting because I would be hunting to fill my own tag. She would merely be assisting me. She could do that because she is still licensed even though she already spent her tag.

Bob, In my humble opinion you are over thinking this. I say that since you are afield at the same time and you are "assisting" her in taking a deer with her gun, you are in essence hunting with a gun. You are not hunting with a different weapon, right? You are hunting with your daughter with a gun. Sounds like party hunting to me.