More public land frusturations

[MUSKY18]

Fishahulik:

Come and hunt up by us! We hunt state/potlatch land and there is so much woods up there our litle party can't cover it all. Seems to be a couple of very small groups that come up and hunt for a year or two and we never see them again. With all the woods we aren't covering, the deer move about freely with no worries. We have found some good spots, like the one where I put my stand. We have shot 5 deer off it in the last two years, but other spots never see a deer. Lots of land tho!

[pulleye16]

Public land is what it is "Public." I hunt probably the most hunted public land in Aitkin. On a one mile stretch of this ridge I hunt, their are 3 other hunters who hunt it. I also have a hunter in front of me on private land about 250 yards away, a hunter behind me 300 yards away, and a guy off to my other side roughly 400-500 yards away. Three where there before me, three came in after I've started hunting there. we've bagged in the three years hunting that stand a monster 10 and 8 pointer, a 7 pointer and a nice doe. I know the hunters behind me and on both sides usually get deer opening day. Before hunting here we've hunted large areas of public land where you wouldn't see a person for miles....I've seen and shot more deer in heavly hunted public land then remote public land.

Its tough to get used to hunting like that and you do run into some "greety" people but you DO get used to it and when you find the deer it can be a fun hunt. The only thing I miss is walking and stocking on this heavily public land as it could potentially be dangerous.

Take some PTO during the week as generally you can be the only one out there and have the woods to yourself...5 days of PTO is alot cheaper then a monthly morgage for the next 20 years and it can be like owning your own land!

Good luck and I hope you can still have some fun deer hunting!

[pulleye16]

Also...Sorry, But if my memory serves me right, I beleive you CAN build permenant stands on public land in MN though its NOT recommended by the DNR. BUT I think you CANNOT build them on WMA or State parks. On all other public lands I beleive you can build them but must be less the 16'???? off the ground. They are a good source of "claiming" your spot though someone could "legally" hunt it. I wish like bear hunting, you had to post some info on your permenant stand to show your hunting it(but wouldn't "legally" allow you to own it") and that you had to tear it down if you don't use it any more. I can't tell you how many stands i see in the woods that people don't use any more causing other "ethical" hunters not to hunt those areas afraid that someone might be hunting there.

[CaptainMusky]

I know I have scouted out a area well, then put up my portable, and as I was walking out, noticed a portable already set up, about 75 yards from were I just set up. I went back to my stand, and removed it. I won't hunt someones spot that arrived before me. its the ethics for me.

I had this same thing happen to me on opening morning a couple years ago. I was very careful to look for other stands when I put up my stand a couple days before the season. Opening morning I am sitting in my stand and about 15 minutes before shooting hours a guy passes right below my stand and walks to a stand not 50 yards from me.

So I began to think did I miss his stand when I placed mine or did he just disregard mine?? At about 730 I had 4 deer walking down the pather in front of me and they were headed his direction. I let the first two pass so that when I shot he would get a chance to shoot in case it was my error. We each shot a nice big doe and were totally happy. I never asked him about whose error it was, because it didnt seem to matter and we got along fine.

[Big Buck Buster]

Also...Sorry, But if my memory serves me right, I beleive you CAN build permenant stands on public land in MN though its NOT recommended by the DNR. BUT I think you CANNOT build them on WMA or State parks. On all other public lands I beleive you can build them but must be less the 16'???? off the ground. They are a good source of "claiming" your spot though someone could "legally" hunt it. I wish like bear hunting, you had to post some info on your permenant stand to show your hunting it(but wouldn't "legally" allow you to own it") and that you had to tear it down if you don't use it any more. I can't tell you how many stands i see in the woods that people don't use any more causing other "ethical" hunters not to hunt those areas afraid that someone might be hunting there.

You CANNOT build them, or repair the old ones on any state land anymore!!

[ANYFISH2]

BBB You are WRONG!! State forest and other general lands owned by the state of minnesota they are still perfectly legal to build and maintain stands.

Off limits are WMA's, WPA's, SNA's, and State Parks. As well as Crow wing county administered land and you are no longer allowed to build new stand on Cass County administered land but may maintian exsisting stands, stands will be destroyed as forests areas are cut.

Best place to find out is by reading the regs, it is there!

[Big Buck Buster]

BBB You are WRONG!! State forest and other general lands owned by the state of minnesota they are still perfectly legal to build and maintain stands.

Off limits are WMA's, WPA's, SNA's, and State Parks. As well as Crow wing county administered land and you are no longer allowed to build new stand on Cass County administered land but may maintian exsisting stands, stands will be destroyed as forests areas are cut.

OK, then why did the DNR tell me where I hunt on the north shore of Big Winnie it was illegal to construct, or maintain the stands we have??? Is that one of these: WMA's, WPA's, SNA's, and State Parks on the north shore area??

[ANYFISH2]

Could it be part of a National Forest(chippawa)? I not versed in NF regs but I bet I can Find the answers in the regs If I had mine handy. I do believe however that they are not allowed to be constructed in National Forests either.

Sorry if I came off harsh, Perms have been debated to no end on here and I get frustrated with people saying some one is doing something illegal when they are not.

[Big Buck Buster]

I looked at the forest maps in the dnr site, and the area I am in is the Bowstring State forest, but when you look at the map for national forest, it is in the Chippewa National forest. To top it off, it is part of the Leech Lake Indian Reservation.

My bad. I was pretty sure that he had said in any state forest. I will have to talk to him next time I am up there to clarify that.

I was hoping that we could get back to the way we used to hunt, and keep the perms going.

Sorry about that.

[fishuhalik]

Wouldn't that be great BBB? When I first started hunting (only 13 years ago) we NEVER had any of these problems. I think I'm gonna take up muzzleloader next year, if I can afford it.

[fishuhalik]

Muskie18, where 'bouts are ya? Please, for your own sake, don't tell me specifics on the internet, just wondering which county? We're in Itasca county, mostly north of nashwauk but also over by sand/bowstring lake and we use to hunt west of bigfork about 12 miles

[ANYFISH2]

BBB, we would love to build some new perms too (hunt on Cass county land) but by law are not allowed to. Although a pain to haul in any distance, we have found a good ladder stand works great, and more comfortable.

even with the frustrations of public land hunting we don't leave. Been asked to hunt with a friend on his farm, but still wood rather go to "Deer Camp" on public with all the family instead.

[cm1977]

I hunt both WI public and private during the bow season and mostly public in the rifle season so the old timers in our group can enjoy the private land as well (my brother and I maintain 4 food plots on our land). I thought I had enough stands up this year to make sure that I would have a peaceful hunt (6 stands) on public land. I have hunted all of these stands during bow season and felt they would be good and all are at least a 45 minute walk from the nearest road. Of these 6 stands, 4 now have another portable up within 100 yards of them and 1 was stolen sometime on Saturday evening, which I will get to shortly...the 1 remaining I am afraid to go into as I don't want the letdown of seeing someone is close to it. 5 of these stands have been up for the last 10 years so it's not like I am testing new waters here. I already shot a decent buck with my bow and I don't want to be greedy here but I also don't want people to piggy back off of my hard work. You see a stand up and think it must be a good spot, well you are in for a rough opening morning I am afraid to say...I understand this is public land but REAL hunters would not do this. Respect another hunters area and put in your own time. I guess they don't know I am going to be a loud stalker this year. Going to go by each stand at least 2 times during the day and sit in them for roughly 30 minutes. They may not like it but I would rather ruin 1 day of my hunt to ensure they wont be back next year...or maybe they will do a little more scouting next year.

As for the stolen stand, I am pretty sure I talked with the guy that stole it earlier in the day. Came out from a sit around noon and a guy was waiting by my truck. He was quizzing me on what I have seen this year and he got angry when I told him I had not seen much this year because you could see the drag marks from a doe I had taken 2 days earlier, tried calling me out on it and I told him it was a big woods and I did not know who shot it...got his license # and will be talking with the CO on Tuesday.

[DinnerPail]

Quote:

Best place to find out is by reading the regs, it is there!

Page 72 and 112

Page 72

Elevated Stands

• No person may take deer from a constructed platform or other structure

that is higher than 16 feet. This restriction does not apply to a

portable stand that is chained, belted, clamped, or tied with rope.

• In Wildlife Management Areas and State Parks open to hunting, only

portable stands may be used. Portable stand use is encouraged in

State Forests (see page 112).

• In Scientific and Natural Areas open to hunting, portable stands and

elevated scaffold may be used if it is removed each day at the close

Page 112

Elevated Scaffolds

• The use of portable tree stands is recommended, especially those

which can be secured without driving nails into trees. Nails are

a safety hazard for woodcutters and harm the forest. Personal

property must be removed from State Forest lands. It is illegal to

destroy state property, including the cutting of trees for shooting

lanes. Littering and erecting permanent buildings are prohibited.

• Any permanent unoccupied stand or blind on public land is public

and not the property of the person who constructed the stand.

It can be confusing at times, you need to know where you are at and who owns the property.

I hunt an area where I have two different counties, state, federal and paper company land. To add to the confusing now there are different rules on ATV's depending on where you are. Just read the regulations and make some calls if you need clarification. I know I had to this fall as alot of the new ATV rules came into play in september.

[fishuhalik]

I hunt both WI public and private during the bow season and mostly public in the rifle season so the old timers in our group can enjoy the private land as well (my brother and I maintain 4 food plots on our land). I thought I had enough stands up this year to make sure that I would have a peaceful hunt (6 stands) on public land. I have hunted all of these stands during bow season and felt they would be good and all are at least a 45 minute walk from the nearest road. Of these 6 stands, 4 now have another portable up within 100 yards of them and 1 was stolen sometime on Saturday evening, which I will get to shortly...the 1 remaining I am afraid to go into as I don't want the letdown of seeing someone is close to it. 5 of these stands have been up for the last 10 years so it's not like I am testing new waters here. I already shot a decent buck with my bow and I don't want to be greedy here but I also don't want people to piggy back off of my hard work. You see a stand up and think it must be a good spot, well you are in for a rough opening morning I am afraid to say...I understand this is public land but REAL hunters would not do this. Respect another hunters area and put in your own time. I guess they don't know I am going to be a loud stalker this year. Going to go by each stand at least 2 times during the day and sit in them for roughly 30 minutes. They may not like it but I would rather ruin 1 day of my hunt to ensure they wont be back next year...or maybe they will do a little more scouting next year.

As for the stolen stand, I am pretty sure I talked with the guy that stole it earlier in the day. Came out from a sit around noon and a guy was waiting by my truck. He was quizzing me on what I have seen this year and he got angry when I told him I had not seen much this year because you could see the drag marks from a doe I had taken 2 days earlier, tried calling me out on it and I told him it was a big woods and I did not know who shot it...got his license # and will be talking with the CO on Tuesday.

cm1977, I really don't wanna sound like a do-gooder or like i'm lecturing you or anything, I know how frusturating it gets, but that's how people get shot. Being that you don't know the guys that are sitting in the stands from adam, you don't know what's going through their minds. I've met some real crazies in the woods and the last thing I would wanna do is tick off the wrong person that you know is holding a gun, ya know?

[InTheNorthwoods]

I can't help but notice that there are alot of comments about hanging stands prior to the season, and about scouting prior to the season and having stands pre-hung, and then complaining that a hunter comes in and "piggy-backs" off your hard work once the season starts. I think that is a very arrogant attitude. It is very possible that those people have scouted the area themselves and that they recognized the area as a good one the day before the season started. It just so happened they didn't take their vacation days until closer to the season. Its public land, and once the season starts, you need to realize there will be more people there than in the weeks prior.

I hunt public land too, and I scout it prior to the season also, but I recognize once opening day comes everything will be different. The one thing I would like to see, if I had it my way, is that I would like to see it be illegal to leave portable stands up overnight forcing people to hang there stands every day so there is no reserving spots (and no having 5 or 6 stands up that aren't going to be used). If it so happens that someone sits within a 100 yards of me, I suck it up and deal with it. Thats life. Its far more likely that the guy hunting next to you is a nice guy and ethical hunter rather than a "piggy-backing" jerk.

[Musky Buck]

Fishuhalik, I hear ya, my dad hasn't rifle hunted since 1999, bought a tag that he throws away each year, he once said I could tag yours, I said no dad, if I pull the trigger and get him, I'm tagging him because you taught me if you're not willing to tag it, don't shoot it, nice gesture, not the right thing to do nor is it legal. I truly think he just wants in on dragging it and being in the woods a bit. My dad got screwed by the all-season tag/now anyone can muzzleload, his 1st year he said I'll just musket because you had to choose rifle or muzzy, now most everyone can so he is done. Public land story, I carried in a ladder stand one morning because scouting I knew a shootable buck was there often. I set it up on the edge according to wind and an hour into the morning comes 2 trucks with 8 hunters. They see me, asked if I saw any and proceeded to drive the land away from me, sure double backs etc. but this was only 15 acres of cover. Well, once they were done so was I, didn't see that buck or any deer for that matter, once your hope is gone you're done.

[Getanet]

Portable stands certainly makes it tough to tell if you're in anyone's "spot." You try your best to scout an area before the season, but you never know. Fishuhalik was peaved opening morning - but you never know if that other guy had been hunting that spot for a number of years - he might be telling his buddies about some yahoo who set up next to him.

At least with a permanent stand you can make some sort of judgment by its condition if someone is still using it.

I guess that's life with public land. They shut down ATV use in our area this year and it totally changed how my group hunts.

[Bear55]

Muskie18, where 'bouts are ya? Please, for your own sake, don't tell me specifics on the internet, just wondering which county? We're in Itasca county, mostly north of nashwauk but also over by sand/bowstring lake and we use to hunt west of bigfork about 12 miles

Hey fishuhalik

I hunt the same general area - just a bit further north. The best advice I can give you is go where others are not willing to. Walking way back in, using a canoe or even just crossing or hunting in a large swamp should get you away from other hunters and maybe have a chance for a mature buck.

If that doesn't work or isn't possible with the lay of the land try to use the other hunters to your advantage. Mature bucks are very good at patterning hunters. Know where all the stands are or even potential stands sites are and get into a spot early and have them push deer to you. This location might look bad when scouting but the deer might use it as a safe haven. Maybe setup on escape routes or funnels to catch deer trying to leave the area when pressured. Also hunt all day no matter what you see happening around you, bigwoods buck are nutorious for moving mid-day when everyone else is have lunch.

[Fishinguy40]

InTheNorthWoods, I couldn't agree with you more. I have always hunted public land. I have met some very nice and some not so nice people. But most I have met have been nice.

I believe the key is to remember it is public. Nobody has any more or less right to be there hunting over anybody else. But common courtesy has to be practiced by everybody.

[lakevet]

We pray for nasty weather and hunt muzzy. My Dad also has less enthusiasm for hunting because of the crowding. We too feel that allowing hunters to muzzy and reg firearms hunt is degrading the enjoyment of muzzy season for those who want to get away from the public land frustrations of the regular firearms season. Muzzy hunters have gone from about 7000 to 70,000 last year . Never had conflicts until all season/ purchase of reg firearms and muzzy started and muzzy hunter numbers exploded. With warm weather, possible slow start to the ice fishing season, there will be even more muzzy hunters this year. Another factor adding to crowding feeling is I know alot of guys who never hunted southern Minnesota, but do now because they can hunt shotgun opener down there and still come back home up north and hunt the rest of the rifle season around here.

Any support for the following idea or any other ideas to lessen public land frustrations due to crowding?

My idea:

say you have 200 acres public land and 50 hunters want to deer hunt it that year.

Presently you could have 50 hunters trying to hunt it all of the regular firearms season and muzzy season at the same time. Opening day of each season is a zoo with up to 50 guys packed into 200 acres. Sooner or later there will be conflict/ hunters quitting hunting, youth having bad experiences, etc because of too many people hunting the same spot at the same time. And not all have the time/money to travel to other locations.

Why not have hunters choose their favorite of 3 seasons.

First firearms season

Second firearms season

Muzzy season

Hunters would get to hunt only one season.

Then you could have 25 hunters choosing first firearms season, 15 hunters choosing second firearms season and 10 hunters choosing muzzy season. Some would want first season even if more hunters because more deer/ higher success rate. Higher chance of getting a deer even if more crowding is ok with this group. Others would hunt second firearms season or muzzy later even if poorer chance of harvesting a deer, but the hunt is more enjoyable for this group of hunters because fewer people in the woods.

When I hunted Colorado elk last year this is the system they use to spread hunters out/ lessen conflicts. Had to choose between 4 dates/separate time frames. Large number of people hunt same public land just not all at the same time. 4 different groups of hunters got to camp in the exact same campsite, and hunt the exact same spots, and kill elk in the exact same locations and NONE of the groups had any conflicts/contact with each other because they were not there at the same time!!! The area we were in had an over population of elk and the system was working to control the elk population and provide alot of opportunity for hunters to hunt the same public land with less frustration/conflict.

Minnesota used to do this by having separate/choose one season. You had to choose between hunting a certain zone (no hunting southern Minn the shotgun season, then running north to rifle hunt the last weekend of that season) and type of firearm (no reg firearms then muzzy). That lessened the impact of our shrinking access to hunting land for the average guy / feeling of crowding. The prediction is for there to be over 1 million more people in Minn in the next 25 yrs, so crowding/ loss of land access is only going to worsen.

Archers could still hunt the whole time so hardcore guy could still spend ALOT of time in the woods.

What do you think?

lakevet

p.s. Musky Buck, our dads aren't going to be vocal about it and will just quit hunting. There definitely is a silent group of hunters that are dropping out. They won't compete with the highly active special interest deer hunter organizations groups.

[jeffreyd]

lakevet, this is how we are set up in az, you have a weapon season, might be some overlap but not much, a youth time frame, and you pick the areas you want to put in for. you are allowed 5 areas on the app and if you want to hunt antlered or anterless. so if you are a rifle hunter, and want to hunt unit 24B, then you can put in for a couple different time frames. Our hunts are a week long and archery goes first, then rifle, youth, muzzle and then late rifle. you can buy an over the counter deer tag for archery for limited time frame and units. we also have a program that if you draw a deer tag up north, you can purchase an over the counter buffalo tag too but only if you have drawn the deer tag. not many do it but there are a few.

It works but you still have the problem of how many hunters can really be in the field.

I am getting to the point where it is not fun anymore, it is just work, not the hunting itself but finding places to keep clear from others. that is the hard part. We hunt a unit in northern az that was recently awarded to the Hopi's as part of their sovern land. They will eventually shut it down to non tribal members, eliminating many thousands of acres of great deer, elk, and antelope country. So knowing that, we are looking for new places to hunt as well are the other couple thousand other people that hunt that area. So were do we all go? into an already crowded unit. Oh well, i hope my son will continue.

[cm1977]

cm1977, I really don't wanna sound like a do-gooder or like i'm lecturing you or anything, I know how frusturating it gets, but that's how people get shot. Being that you don't know the guys that are sitting in the stands from adam, you don't know what's going through their minds. I've met some real crazies in the woods and the last thing I would wanna do is tick off the wrong person that you know is holding a gun, ya know?

I hear you fishuhalik and thanks for the warning, there are some dandies out there and I have had my fair share of run in's over the years on issues with public land. Had a "gentleman" in a converted camper tell me at gunpoint that we (my father and I) could not go any farther north along a cut because he was hunting the area. He mentioned he knew where my parents lived...Thankfully I saw him in the spring in the same area, he was surprisingly nice and I was not, he did not remember the incident, I did. Just another nice guy out in the woods that now remembers me.

[Coach1310]

Our group hunts public land North of Brainerd. We lost our lease about 7-8 years ago and decided to stay at a guys cabin and try this tract of land. Well.... let me just say the first year, I am sure we angered a few hunters. We waited until it was light and struck out to find a spot to be "out of the way", but low and behold we stumbled into people, upon people, upon people. After a year or two, we carved out our niche and found a "home." But as each year goes, other people in the same predictament as us, just looking for a home come stumbling in. Not much you can do. We do have a gentleman who hunts near us who talks about how he was here 20 years ago when there weren't any trails and all the bucks funneled through here, but now the hunters are blocking the escape routes etc. etc. There is no sense in being that guy. I think that is part of the reason archery and muzzleloader are so popular right now. A lot less people hunting and more peace and quiet.. I feel your pain Fish.... but it is what it is.

[Big Buck Buster]

BBB, we would love to build some new perms too (hunt on Cass county land) but by law are not allowed to. Although a pain to haul in any distance, we have found a good ladder stand works great, and more comfortable.

even with the frustrations of public land hunting we don't leave. Been asked to hunt with a friend on his farm, but still wood rather go to "Deer Camp" on public with all the family instead.

We have been using portables for the last few years now. I bow hunt, so much of the perms that are already up from years back were built for rifle, and not bow. Right before this law came into affect, we built a couple for me, and made them so a bow hunter could use them.

From some of the posts, I almost thought we might be in an area where this law didn't come into play, but I was wrong. Darn.

The portables are nice for going to different places in the big woods up north, and keep the deer from being able to pattern us as easy. I have two ladders, and a climber. I love hunting up north, vs. where I live. I have hunted there since I got my safety certificate(about 15 yrs ago). My family has hunted there for well over 30 yrs. A person gets to know an area, and it is hard to just go look for different areas to hunt after hunting one for so long. We don't get the public pressure where we hunt, unlike areas closer to larger populated cities, and that what draws us to it each year. Sometimes, I think we might not have enough hunters in our area.