Question for Lou . . . (OK, OK, for everyone!)

[Steve Foss]

Hey Lou:

Maybe you won't want to comment on this, but the monster 8-pointer from Cannon Falls that looks like it was poached could put paid to all the naysayers who believe Minnesota doesn't grow true trophy deer.

I'm not asking you to talk about the investigation/charges themselves, but do you have some thoughts you'd like to share with us all here about the impact of a deer that size simply being taken in any way, shape or form in our fine state, and what that might mean for Minnesota's white-tailed deer hunting reputation in the future? Does it turn Minnesota automatically into a more desirable destination for true trophy hunters?

Thanks in advance, and I don't mean to put you on the spot. Simply that you are uniquely situated to offer perspective on this.

[lcornice]

Hey Lou:

Maybe you won't want to comment on this, but the monster 8-pointer from Cannon Falls that looks like it was poached could put paid to all the naysayers who believe Minnesota doesn't grow true trophy deer.

I'm not asking you to talk about the investigation/charges themselves, but do you have some thoughts you'd like to share with us all here about the impact of a deer that size simply being taken in any way, shape or form in our fine state, and what that might mean for Minnesota's white-tailed deer hunting reputation in the future? Does it turn Minnesota automatically into a more desirable destination for true trophy hunters?

Thanks in advance, and I don't mean to put you on the spot. Simply that you are uniquely situated to offer perspective on this.

I honestly can't talk about an open investigation. It's best I don't say anything until the case is settled. I'm sorry.

[Coach1310]

Hey Lou.... I can understand you not wanting to talk about the case. I think what Steve is really asking is how will the fact that this buck was born, bred and grown in MN affect our states stature as a trophy whitetail state? And how might that affect future whitetail regulations?

[Steve Foss]

Lou, I understand. Coach is right about what I'm really after here, but I completely understand how alluding to either positive or negative impacts of the buck's coming to light while the case is unresolved could be like tiptoeing through a minefield.

Of course, AFTER the disposition of the case, I'm sure we'd still be very interested in your thoughts on the impact of a deer that size being verified in Minnesota.

[96trigger]

Its a line that shouldn't be crossed. In Lou's case, he shouldn't go near it, or even think about going near it, and I totally understand that also. I'm pretty sure we all do.

But I like the question being asked by Steve. Steve, you should open it up to the forum and see what you get for responses. Maybe when this is all resolved, lou can add input, but I don't see that happening in the very near future.

[Steve Foss]

trigger, I pretty much knew Lou wouldn't be able to comment, and why he wouldn't. I posed the question partly on the chance that he'd be able to participate at this point, but mostly to plant the seed so if he feels comfortable addressing it after the case is resolved he'll have been thinking about it.

Lou, I know I speak for many here when I thank you for being so willing to answer our questions. Say, are you going to run for governor? You'd get most of the sporting vote, and heck, 4,832 others already have declared themselves in the guv race. And how many gubernatorial candidates are HSO/FM members?

And, uh, trigger, I don't need to issue an invitation to open it up to the forum. Since when has the fact that a question was posed to a single person ever stopped the whole forum from chiming in with their opinions?

GO

FOR

IT!

[96trigger]

I know, I know, I was trying to be polite. I guess I should have known better....

[Steve Foss]

I know, I know, I was trying to be polite. I guess I should have known better....

Politeness is never wasted, and I always appreciate it. It's a commodity undervalued in online forums.

So what are your thoughts on the original issue?

[ANYFISH2]

Steve, I think Minnesota has always been considered a trophy producing state. Until maybe the last 15 years, we had the most B&C entries. I believe that other state have gotten on the "quality buck" bandwagon earlier than us, and have allowed professional quides to lease up prime land to sell hunts. Of which I believe in part to the reason states like Illinois, Iowa and Montana have become such destinations. Not saying these states didn't have great bucks before or don't have great animals outside of the outfitters land, just that it has helped to inflate those totals.

This along with the other GIANTS that have been shot in MN this year may bring some more notoriaty to MN but this always has been a big deer state.

I hope that our DNR and legislature does not allow big outfitters and guides to lease up and run a muck like they have in other states, this is my biggest fear from added notoriaty.

[96trigger]

My thoughts, are that we are couple of years from becoming the next Buffalo county. Eventually, people will realize that a small part of this state has the potential to grow some very nice bucks, when that happens, land will become tougher and tougher to find. Basically, there is a triangle of land between interstate 35 and the Mississippi river that will start getting added pressure.

Farms in our county are already getting leased up. I will say this, we don't have the deer for 5 guys to go into a tract of land and get 5 trophys. We do however have the deer and land for 5 guys to go in and maybe get 1 or 2 trophies IF they hunt hard. Is that, and the word of a new record going to bring them in? I don't know it if it is enough, but it certainly seems like we might be heading in that direction.

[tunrevir]

This is one thing I particularly like about this site, we have somone to interpet and who understands the laws and can give answers to all of the questions we have. Lou, Thank you for chiming in and clarifying things. Steve thanks for opening up this line of discussion. I hope that the reports of this deer being poached are only a preclusion to a deer that was lawfully shot. If so, it gives me great hopes that we have monster deer that can be taken by legal means during open season right here in Mn. If not, it is a shame that a deer like that would be poached when any of us holding a lisc. could have had a crack at him. Magnificant animal! I look foreward to seeing this all sorted out in due time. I get the feeling from some of the comments that this fella wasn't quite on the up and up but never having met him or hunted with him I will reserve judgement untill all the facts are heard and details sorted out.

Tunrevir~

[Coach1310]

With or without this deer, I think we will see more and more people heading here to hunt whitetails. A big whitetail can be grown in any part of our state, but certain areas definitely have better potential. I think it is already starting with people leasing their land to residents and non-residents. I also think it will become a more popular destination because non-residents can buy a buck tag over the counter instead of hoping for a tag in a draw.

[96trigger]

Our out of state prices are also very reasonable. My Brother lives in Wisconsing so I like the fact that he can still hunt with us, however, it is probably too low.

[icehousebob]

Trophy bucks need three things; genetics, food, and time. Since most Minn. bucks are shot by one and a half years old, they're only getting the first two. I'm more of a meat hunter and most guys I know are the same. But if a buck gets smart or lucky enough to survive till four or five, he most likely will be impressive. Years back, I hunted here before hitting Wyoming. When I told them there about one of our group in Minn. tagging a buck that field dressed at 265lbs, they more or less called me a liar. It didn't occur to them that whitetails could get that big. I wasn't lying, I had to help drag the durn thing almost a mile in deep snow. NOT FUN

[bogwalker]

I have to ask, who is Lou?

[picksbigwagon]

Lou is Lou Cornicelli, from the DNR, head of the Deer division among other things....

When you look at "BIG TIME" buck producing areas, like NE IA, the reason the deer have time is the lack of population, human population.....Iowa has less than what 3 million people? there are more people in the twin cities than the whole state of Iowa. Drive around in the major deer producing areas of NE IA, what don't you see? A house or farm every mile. Population density is a big influence as well

[lakevet]

If we become more of a destination, will it the increase the odds non residents will have to go thru a lottery to get a buck tag? What are the odds of getting a nonresident buck tag in Iowa? I would hate to see more outfitters/leasing. Just will create another barrier for the average guy or a local kid who doesn't have the $$$$$ to pay for a lease. I don't think that making MN more of a destination for Trophy hunters has any great benefit for 99% of Minnesota hunters and will decrease land access even more for the average hunter. On the business/commercial side a few can make extra $$$.

lakevet

[96trigger]

lakevet I truly agree, so for now, I'm going to keep saying there aren't big bucks in Minnesota.

I truly wish that there was some way to prevent the yearling bucks from getting shot (in areas where the deer population is thriving), no forks or baskets. However, that needs to be a choice made by the hunter. Way too hard to mandate. If they can just make it through one deer season to get a little bit smarter it would help.

Just think about this. If we get everybody to let all the forks and baskets get through. and lets just say 50% of them get shot the next year as 1.5-2 year olds. In two years, You will have 50% more 3 year olds running around.

I am not in any way ripping on anyone that chooses to take a fork or a basket. My family was that kind of hunter up until very recently. It wasn't until I started bow hunting, and truly seeing the kind of nice deer that are out there if you put the time in, that I started to change my thinking. I know that in some areas, you have to take what you can get. That little fork might be the only deer you see all season, I am fortunate that this is not the case in my areas.

[NoWiser]

Trigger, I think that, with time, we will be seeing more and more people passing on the 1.5 year old bucks. It won't happen overnight, but I have noticed that younger generations are much more willing to let a deer walk than older generations (especially after they get their first deer or two out of the way). I have also noticed that we are slowly showing the older generations the benefits of this. In my deer hunting party (which I didn't hunt with this year), when I saw a spike or fork buck and let it walk, I could not tell a soul except my dad because I would have had people come down on me hard for not contributing to the meat pile. Compare that to my friends from college....I would say 75% of them let the little ones walk. I think that, even without extra laws, we will slowly see the hunting for mature bucks improve in this state.

As far as this state becoming a trophy destination. I could see it happening in the SE portion of the state, and would hate to see outfitters move in to lease up much of the land. I'm limited to public land, and can't see it happening in the parts of the state I hunt. Just not a high enough percentage game to draw people, I don't think. Any mature buck up there is a trophy, regardless of the size of its headgear. Mature bucks alone don't make money, though, big antlers do. Rumor has it the rut is on, and I'm headed up there in 2 hours to see if my dad can't find a nice buck!

[96trigger]

Good luck. Things are winding down down here. The rut is still going, but your going to have to look hard to find it. Lots of pressure the last 7 days.

The leasing has already started. There is a "Guide Service" in our town now and the word is already out that they will lease just about anybody's land if they are willing. The problem is, the hunters that used to hunt that land get pushed somewher else. Often, this is just one or two hunters for 100 acres, when that same 100 acres made held 5 or 6 hunters before, now those 5 or 6 try and find a new spot. We eventually end up with a few hunters in the majority of the area, and the majority of the hunters in the minority of the area.

[Steve Foss]

Very interesting perspectives, guys. Good stuff, and some things I hadn't though of.

[96trigger]

I don't think it hits home until all of the sudden it happens. We were very worried for awhile last year. The landowner would not lease his land to this guy for various reasons, but a couple of neighbors did. Kind of scary.

[Cooter]

Probably got mentioned but unless you got some serious QDM going on a gun hunt during the rut takes out a ton of smaller bucks. No big new there.

Other than that I think certain areas in MN are as good for growing brutes as just about anywhere - however from my travels through MN there are portions that just aren't ever gonna produce numbers of big deer. If you start at the Miss R and head west into MN or east into WI you run out of that prime whitetail habitat much sooner in MN. In WI, you can pretty much drive anywhere in the state and be in either good to great habitat.

Iowa, Kansas, and several others just don't have the amount of hunters as MN and WI and thus more deer live to maturity.

Speaking of trophy bucks, it seemed like 10 years ago Canada was all the talk and now you don't hear so much from there - I'm sure they're still getting monsters.

Really a shame on that 8, I'd love to see more pics. He musta swam the river from WI, everyone knows they don't get that big in MN

[CRAZYEYES]

It will be good for the hunting buisness around that way. If you look at Dyrden Ontario a lot of guys had no idea where Dryden was or that it had trophy deer until that buck was shot up there. Now every fishing lodge has capitalized on it and offers "trophy" deer hunts. It really only benefits the few in the buisness and I'm sure a lot of locals up there are not thrilled with all the hoopla. Maybe I'm wrong but I do believe that they have a regulation up there that the deer has to have 8 points to shoot and I think that they also allow baiting.

[96trigger]

Don't forget the major hassle of getting not only yourself, but guns into Canada now, I'm sure many just say screw it.