Infatuation w/ Antlers

[jerkbait]

I think that no matter what one person or another thinks is right we should still have the choice to shoot what we want. If you what to practice QDM on your property don't force the rest of us to QDM. I still think a large rack deer is supposed to be a once in a lifetime thing, not a every year thing.

[JustLOVEit]

Me personnaly i would careless if i shot a doe, spiker, mounter, or get my freezer filled. Just getting to be out in the woods, sit around the camp fire, and spent time with those you hardly see through out the year is what's it's all about for me.

My deer tag is just my permission slip to get out from the house, work, and to be away from the women. =D

[Bear55]

As far as badgering in other threads, when I look back through them it does seem that you won't find too many threads that were started by "meat hunters" implying or suggesting we change the laws to benefit meat hunters

That is because we live in a brown its down state thats laws favor higher population meat hunting over a natural balanced herd.

[jerkbait]

Originally Posted By: BobT

As far as badgering in other threads, when I look back through them it does seem that you won't find too many threads that were started by "meat hunters" implying or suggesting we change the laws to benefit meat hunters

That is because we live in a brown its down state thats laws favor higher population meat hunting over a natural balanced herd.

Sounds good to me. They are such tasty morsells!!

[Leaddog]

"brown its down"

Theres another phrase we could do without. It does not imply proper identification of the target. Seeing brown is not good enough! ...not picking on B55, he only it as an adjective.

By the way sex ratios go far beyond just Xs and Ys. The odds look even but really they are not. Outside factors effect the sex of fawns. Does can reabsorb fetal tissue when circumstances dictate. Nature leans towards the survival of the species and produces more fawns of the sex that is most beneficial to the situation.

Heck the Laker pups are 6 f and a single m, not sure if it was the sire ie Henry the 8th or if I over or under fed the b itch..

All I'm saying is there is more to it than just which ones us hunters choose to eat.

[Kyle]

The problem I see is this,

we get people on both sides of the fence, and then we have the extremest that definitely sway one way or the other, but they take it to the next level by post antagonizing comments just to get a rise and reiterate their position. We dont need this. I have explained that I would rather shoot a doe for meat than a small buck. And I really like big racks. I can see from the point of view of both sides, but my questions always boils down to this, Why would a person as a meat hunter want to shoot anything that walks in front of them, especially if its a yearling or a really small buck, when they could wait and shoot a big doe that will provide twice the amount of meat with the same quality. Granted, yearlings taste great, but its almost too much work the very small amount of meat that you actually get, and after its all said and done you have simply used up another deer tag that you could have used on a big doe? Im all for people that hunt for meat, and Im all for people that hunt for big bucks, but I think the two fit hand it hand pretty well if you think about killing for both reasons from a logical standpoint.

[bottom-bouncer]

I am all for meat hunters as well as those of us that choose to hunt for mature bucks. this is just my opinion but the way I see it unless this state changes how things are done its all a waste of time more minnesota will not be able to truelly make forced QDM work untill they get the guns out of november, meaning the reason iowa,illinios,missouri,kansas,nebraska,etc have a larger number of large racks is because they dont let the mass number of gun hunters kill every love sick teenage buck thats roaming the woods. the truth can be hard to swallow but reality is very few hunters are capable of killing any buck that is not wandering around looking for does.( meaning number of tags sold versus actaull harvest) I have talked to many people about this subject and the general idea is that you could allow the (meat) hunters to still shoot what ever anamial they choose because the oppurtunity to shoot smaller buck would be much less. we need to be fair leave the archery season as it is the harvest rates low anyway give the muzzloaders the end of october still no scopes and move the generall firearms season to december. a few seasons of this and we would see a drastic increase in the number of large bucks in this state and everyone would be happy.

[Jameson]

I wouldn't be happy. When the water freezes the deer leave my main hunting area and move to the river-bottoms. It is rare to see a deer on the hunting land past Dec 1, or freeze-up. Move the hunt that late and their would be a lot of people taking up October muzzleloading or bow hunting. To offset that, perhaps make it doe-only prior to the start of firearms? It would keep ALL the bucks around for that Fall's rut.

[bottom-bouncer]

jameson do you know why the other states have so many big deer and we dont its cuz we kill them during the rut. some people will have to adapt and change the way they hunt but it will and or would be beneficial to more hunters, very few would switch to bow hunting simply because of the amount of time required or available to them you dont get to just show up opening morning and shoot. they also wouldnt take up muzzle season because of the no scope far more young bucks would survive this way it works every were else

[BobT]

I will definitely agree with that. Why in the world do we hunt (primarily bucks by law until recent years) during the time of year when they (the bucks) are most vulnerable? I’ve never really understood that one. As someone who hunts first for the meat and then for the trophy, yeah, the law works to my advantage and I use it that way but even so I question the reasoning. I guess I trust that those we’ve put in charge are using good management practices. Since I’m not in charge, any ideas about what that means is irrelevant but I still enjoy hashing it over.

[picksbigwagon]

I agree with that as well, but if the no firearm hunting during the rut is so important than we should eliminate all deer hunting from the 1st of November to the end of November. bow hunters have all september through october. Give Muzzies 2 or 3 weeks in October, everyone takes November off. Firearms 1st week of December. I could live with that. I wouldn't call it QDM though

[BLACKJACK]

untill they get the guns out of november, meaning the reason iowa,illinios,missouri,kansas,nebraska,etc have a larger number of large racks is because they dont let the mass number of gun hunters kill every love sick teenage buck thats roaming the woods.

Do you notice that all the states that you list are south of MN?? In theory moving the hunting season out of the rut and into Dec. sounds good, but by Dec 1 people are starting to ice fish in northern MN!!! The cold weather would cause you to lose a lot of deer hunters, especially amoung the youth hunters and old hunters. The DNR is trying to recruit and retain hunters, not lose them. I know all you tough young studs and the hardcore deer hunters would make it out regardless of the weather but the marginal hunters would stay home. Until global warming kicks in big time, this idea doesn't make sense. .

[BLACKJACK]

I agree with that as well, but if the no firearm hunting during the rut is so important than we should eliminate all deer hunting from the 1st of November to the end of November. bow hunters have all september through october. Give Muzzies 2 or 3 weeks in October, everyone takes November off. Firearms 1st week of December. I could live with that. I wouldn't call it QDM though

I don't think bowhunters should be penalized because some hunters want the DNR to grow a big rack on every deer. Take up bowhunting if you think that bowhunters have an unfair advantage.

[Leaddog]

Exactly!

Most often if I have a chance to arrow a buck it happens in October (Oct 4 last year) through the 1st week of November. Too busy to hunt before October. The firearms season shakes the snow globe so much that it takes weeks for it all to settle.

If a doe goes in the freezer its usually in late Nov or Dec. Love bow hunting in December!

[Kyle]

Im not against this idea, but I fear that not enough does would be taken, and the population would then get out of control. Also, I could see people doing alot more deer drives to bag their deer; which Im not for.

Bottom-Bouncer, Im in favor of better deer management, but as is life, there is never a perfect solution.

Somone commented on why we hunt bucks when they are most vulnerable. Look at the other states, you will not likely find more wooded country. This makes buck hunting extremely difficult when they do not have to move out of the woods for food like they do in alot of other states. With this in mind, it also doesnt help that they are usually nocturnal. In my mind, if the DNR came to me and said that we want people to have a better chance at harvesting deer, thus the reason for allowing to hunt the rut, I would understand their stance. I have trail cams out, and have scouted deer for quite a few years now, and most of the time, I see the big bucks in a rut and had no idea they were even in the area. Not saying I would be completely opposed to the idea of closing the hunt durign the rut, but these are some things I was thinking about...

[Jameson]

...Take up bowhunting if you think that bowhunters have an unfair advantage.

I have. Do we really want every Tom, Richard, and Harry taking up bow hunting? These Tom, Richard, and Harry wouldn't likely practice enough, and it would result in many deer being injured and not recovered. C'mon, most Tom, Richard, and Harry's CAN practice shooting with a rifle for ONE day and be fairly successful with making a kill shot with a gun, not so with a bow. Do you really want anyone, but the dieahard hunters taking up bow hunting?

Many hunters are currently taking up bow hunting right now for one reason; to have a chance to harvest big antlers before the gun hunters have a chance. Move the firearm season to December and my guess is it would be a year or two before we had more Bow or October Muzzleloaders than December gun hunters. Then what? We will be back to where we started. Killing too many bucks during the rut.

If folks are really worried about firearm hunters killing too many bucks during firearm season, than why don't we just institute a buck lottery? Ya know , like Illinois.

How about we compromise some and just push back the firearms hunt one week and make it doe-only before the start of firearms season. Everybody should be happy with that . The QDM minded folks will have more bucks around for a more natural rut, the trophy folks should see more big bucks in future years, and the meat hunters can still get a doe all season long.

[picksbigwagon]

[quote=BLACKJACK

I don't think bowhunters should be penalized because some hunters want the DNR to grow a big rack on every deer. Take up bowhunting if you think that bowhunters have an unfair advantage.

[BobT]

Quote:

Many hunters are currently taking up bow hunting right now for one reason; to have a chance to harvest big antlers before the gun hunters have a chance.

I'd like to see that poll. Unbiased of course.

Edit: I bow hunted for about 10 years. I don't ever recall doing it because I felt I had a better chance at mr. big. I did it for many other reasons.

*Extend my season

*Add challenge

*Enjoy more time in the woods

*Warmer hunting season

*Better scenery

*Less warry quarry

*Silly antics of my quarry due to above mentioned. I experienced more unique and funny things with deer while bow hunting than any other time.

[JustLOVEit]

I will definitely agree with that. Why in the world do we hunt (primarily bucks by law until recent years) during the time of year when they (the bucks) are most vulnerable? I’ve never really understood that one. As someone who hunts first for the meat and then for the trophy, yeah, the law works to my advantage and I use it that way but even so I question the reasoning. I guess I trust that those we’ve put in charge are using good management practices. Since I’m not in charge, any ideas about what that means is irrelevant but I still enjoy hashing it over.

It's probably to maintian hunters quota?

I don't know if anyone has notices but since i basically do almost everything that is legal for outdoor (like hunting, fishing, icefishing, etc..) all the season are setup so everything that involves outdoor starts and ends before each other.

I think its due to the state/government having to allow thoses that loves doing all outdoor activity to be able to do that without having to missed out on other outdoor activities, but that's not really there (state/governements) true intentions.

It's actually a great source of revenue for the state. Just think about how much we spent per trip, per activities, and what we spent on items.

If everything was to overlap each other there will be a decrease in most outdoor activities and an increase in others, but equally spread the outdoor activities through out the year. People will spend and get involve in all outdoor activities.

That's just my thoughts.

[buckhunter21]

I like the idea Jameson had- have an antlerless only hunt during the time when the normal firearm season is and then a week later have an either sex hunt. That way the people who hunt mainly for meat and dont care about horns would get a chance to fill their freezer without killing a single buck. Then a week later when you could shoot a buck those people who just wanted meat regardless of what sex it was would be filled out taking a little less pressure of some of these bucks. It probably wouldnt work as well antler point restrictions or some other methods but it would definitely help out a little for the guys that want to see more mature bucks and at the same time I dont see where the guys who dont care about seeing more big bucks could complain, they would still get their time to hunt and they could still shoot what they wanted.

[Boar]

Uhmm.. Justloveit? Bear hunting starts Sept. 1st an runs into the first part of Oct. In the meantime, during bear hunting the woods comest alive with with overlapping of seasons. Sept. 19th Archery starts, Oct 11th early antlerless starts. Along with grouse hunting, this is very frustrating, but hey, thats life. I hunt deer also an have done the bow, rifle an muzzy, I have wonder too why we hunt deer during their most vunerable time with high power rifles, I always thought it should change but where do ya bump it to? I always thought they should flip flop rifle an muzzy. but then people are shooting does that have been bred, but they do that during muzzy right now. I dont know.. no easy solution. My 2 cents boar

[vister]

all ideas are good. however, moving the firearms season out of the rut really has nothing to do with QDM. moving the season would just mean bucks are not shot when most vulnerable. the bottom line, is we, the hunters, choose the fate of the deer when we get a chance at them. Because a mature, or spike buck walks out into a clearing doesn't mean it has to cost him his life! QDM, and the infatuation with antlers, has everything to do with us. Just cause a buck walks out into the open doesn't mean you have to shoot it! QDM means being selective on what you shoot.

Spike bucks want to get jiggy with it during the rut to! Alot of them get passed up. Not many baskets get passed up though! Even the same ol "If I don't shoot it, the neighbors will" philosophy gets old. Maybe they'll miss, or never see it. chances are, if you let him go, he will make it to next year, and be a nicer, prettier looking buck. one to get the heart pumpin. They don't get that chance if YOU end it that day.

To every man his own, but if ya want to shoot a deer, shoot what you want. I know that I'm going to let that fork or basket get a year or two older.

ps, BobT, you forgot to mention swatting mosquitos on your list of things you enjoy about bowhunting!

[picksbigwagon]

That was a great post vister.....I will be reposting that one in the future if that is okay with you. I agree with everything you said.

[crown_seven]

I agree with your post also vister but I will also say that I would not disagree with moving the regular firearms season into december, I know that alot of people will have something to say about that but its how I feel. I think that there are too many "if its brown its down" people out there that shoot everything in sight and then complain about not seeing quality bucks, I know a bunch of them! Im not saying its everybody that gun hunts but I do believe its a pretty big population. Yes Im a bowhunter and i love to do it, I tried gun hunting and didnt find it as exciting as bowhunting. Ive been to dnr meetings a few times and I think it boils down to whether we as hunters want to see 100 deer a sit or if we want to see 50 quality deer a sit. Im done now let me have it!lol

[picksbigwagon]

It took the neighbor to the land I used to hunt around Houston to get me to realize why brown is down is bad and why we had to, "Let those little ones go" That property is loaded right now very mature bucks. That talk needs to happen on an individual basis. Keep banging it in their heads, even I figured it out eventually. : )