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paul pachowicz

law of the land

83 posts in this topic

just wondering what is the law of the land in your parts when dealing with tracking an animal you shot. Say, for instance, you nail one, debilitating but, not fatal. As you follow the blood trail you hear a shot and come up on a guy who dealt the final blow. Who is the taker? 1st blood or killing shot? In my parts it's 1st blood.

Pac

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I posted the same question last year. If I remember right it came out with most saying kill shot. Alot went with depends on the shot placement of the original shot, If it would have been fatal in a reasonable amount of time, they would give it up but if it was something non fatal they would keep it. I'm in that camp also

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just wondering what is the law of the land in your parts when dealing with tracking an animal you shot. Say, for instance, you nail one, debilitating but, not fatal. As you follow the blood trail you hear a shot and come up on a guy who dealt the final blow. Who is the taker? 1st blood or killing shot? In my parts it's 1st blood.

Pac

If you came into my set up after I killed your wounded deer, chases are you would be going home empty. Mabe a buisess card your your wallet to call nextime you cross the swamp. Especialy if you showed up gun in hand.

I delt with this a few years ago. A doe and 2 fawns crossed the swamp, in a hurry, and when given a shot I took the doe. 20 min later dudeman comes across the swamp trudging my way. "which way did she go?"... "She is laying right over there."... "Did you shoot her?"... "Yep"... "Wow she is realy bleading now, there is blood everywere"... "Bullet threw the heart will do that"...

Turns out dudeman shot this girl in the neck and he fallowed her 400 yards across 2 swamps and eventualy to me. I put a .270 threw her heart from 30 yards and she ran 45 feet. Needless to say the "killing shot" was obvious. After a short argument about killing shot vs. first blood, and letting him take a picture of her, (I guess it was the biggest he ever shot) we exchanged cards and he went back wet, and empty handed.

Now if you gut shot it, blew its leg off, jaw off, generaly mangled it, I would probably let you take it with you. All of it, you are not going to gut your deer on my property. I will even cary your gun for you as I escort you and your deer the heck out and back across the swamp. No card, no plesentries, just get your [PoorWordUsage] and get out.

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if that is the accepted way, then so be it. I don't have a problem with that. I've never been in that situation but I suppose I'd kill and let the other guy have it. OK, another situation. You nail one...it take a few leaps and lands on private property. can you make an unarmed retrival?

Pac

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Glad I don't hunt near you neighbor guy

Look, If you know your weapon and its abilities and limitations. And respect the animal you are hunting, the land, and the others who use it, "first blood vs. kill shot" should not ever be an issue for you or the others who hunt around you.

The "vitals" of an average whitetail are about the size of a volley ball. Put a bullet, slug, arrow threw it and they are dead. If you dont, good luck.

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May seem a little rough, but I agree with Neighborguy.

As with most things.....you should know what you are doing. Sometimes things happen though and you lose one.

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When I read this I remember why I quit hunting deer. I miss the days in ND where EVERYBODY just got along!

Glad NG does not live next to me!

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I thought by law that it was first blood and you could legally retrieve the animal unarmed on private property. And very few that have hunted for a while can say they have never made a bad shot or missed. It's unfortunate, but it does happen even to the hunter who only takes good shots.

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Having never hunted deer before, I've no experience in this, but maybe I can bring a fresh perspective to it.

I think obviously if the first shot was a fatal one, then it goes to him. Also, if the guy tracked it over an extended period of time (put a lot of effort into it), and the trail was good enough that he eventually would have gotten to the deer, then it goes to him. Basically the only reason I think the kill shot guy should get it is if the deer was shot in an area that wouldn't have killed it for days. Hunting's hunting, so letting one guy do all the work (even if it's just shooting poorly and scaring the deer towards you), then reaping the rewards is wrong in my book.

Neighbor Guy, I respect your opinion, and obviously since it's your land you'd have final say, and I've never been deer hunting before, so I could be wrong, but a neck shot, plus over a quarter mile hike through two swamps seems deserving of the deer. Although I do agree with you about gutting on your land.

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Ok i gotta chime in here. If a deer has gotten shot and went over a quarter mile, it probably wasnt going to die anytime in the next quarter mile either. Killer gets the deer. First blood doesnt mean a thing in my book.

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I fall firmly in the "it depends" category. Distance traveled and fatality of the first shot decide this for me. If there is a slightly wounded deer a long way from the first shooter and its shot; I'd be real hard pressed to say first guy has any claim to it. On the other hand, I've seen that "kill shot" idea applied to obviously dying deer by unethical slobs who can't get their own deer too and that's no more right...

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There has to be case law on this. 500,000 hunters in MN alone. I bet many cases nation wide have been heard over a trophy deer over the years. Anybody have a clue what the presiding presidence is?

I'm in the first blood camp, but that even hard to prove without expensive forensic tests. Does a warden have the power to grant rightfull ownership? Where is it written? Does it stand up in court?

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Well in the case that lawdog stated obviously it would go to first blood. Obviously you cant go up to a deer thats breathing its last breath and shoot it in the head and then tell everyone you killed it!

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Kill shot! But I dont hunt public land so I dont really have this issue. If I am sitting in my stand and the deer I shoot leaves my general area, (beyond visual, say 100yds) and gets shot by someone else, its his! If your hunting closer then that to someone else your only asking for problems. Either you are taking bad shots, or you are a bad shot, or you missed where you were aiming. I would say if the deer runs more then 100 yds through a woods it is in some one elses general area.

As far as the retrieval question, this should be worked out prior to hunting, when neither party has weapons in hand!

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I think the type of hunt is a factor too. In the big northwoods it rare to see the other hunter shoot and all you can go on for evidence is the backtrail. In farm country during big drives many people often shoot and deer regularly run to the neighbors property to be shot at again. Diplomacy often wins the day-but when it comes to the buck of a lifetime we need a stronger ruling.Hans

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4wanderingeyes,

I have to respectfully disagree with you because I have shot deer in the hotbox that have traveled over 100 yards and it was still dead on it's feet. My brother shot a buck of a lifetime 3 years ago and it went almost a 1/4 mile with a hole in it's lungs. It was just that amped up cause of the rut is all we can figure. Great blood but it just took off and ran.

Froggy

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Hey all,

Neighborguy sounded crabby because he didn't get eat his tenderloins last weekend. gringrin

I have to go with kill shot on this one too - same as I did last year in this debate.

I rifle hunt on County land within hearing, but not visual distance of other hunters who I do not know. I figure it is my responsibility to put that deer down quick to lessen the chance of having the "who gets it" problem.

I figure if it runs too far, I didn't do my job, and I have to face the fact that I may lose this deer to someone else. Trophy of lifetime or not.

I thought about this after I shot a buck Saturday morning. It came in limping, but fast, several minutes after a gun shot. I decided to take it thinking it was injured. I watched it pile up but waited 30 minutes to see if someone was coming. Nobody did and it wasn't hit after all.

If it was though, in the leg, I would have offered my condolences to them for losing their deer. wink

Either way you cut it though, I'm happiest any time a wounded deer gets put down by somebody . AND I will not fight over it if you really NEED that deer that bad.

Like froggy's situation, I've had lung shot deer die within sight of another stand. I was thankful he wasn't there for the reason 4wanderingeyes mentioned.

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I second that. Many heart shot deer hunch over then run full speed until they are empty. I've seen many go much farther than 100 yards. A solid one lung shot can go for ever and theoretically recover.

So what are some possible choices to firm up the rule.

1 goes to 1st blood

2 goes to kill shot

3 goes to whosever property it was on when shot

4 goes to whosever property it is on when it dies

5 goes to whoever recovers it first. Possesion 9/10ths of the law

6 goes to whoever the warden says.

7 8 9?

I'm a firm believer in being maximally consistant. I believe basing ruleings on precident and clear statute to begin with is the way to go. It leaves personality out of it and is inherently fairer. Just watch Judge Judy(if you want to waste your life), she often rules one way in a case based on personality and the exact opposite on the same fundamental rights/rules on the next case. It boggles the mind.

This failure to say what the rule is and what the punishment will be up front just leads to the need for more lawyers.So make a rule, let the jury or judge decide if it is a typical case regarding the rule and make a descision depending on statute. IF it needs a precident setting descending opinion let the judge write it, but otherwise let us as the people know what the law is ahead of time.

I just stuggle with the current option that there is no rule of law, nor no consensous standard practice, just a giant grey area.

This is a set up that fosters arguments and will ultimately lead to gunfire and possible loss of life. This is the same argument I have made ad nuasium about ditch hunting in Minnesota, but at least I'm trying to be consistant. Hans

Sorry about any post that mentions Judge Judy on a hunting and fishing HSOforum-way out of line.

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4wanderingeyes,

I have to respectfully disagree with you because I have shot deer in the hotbox that have traveled over 100 yards and it was still dead on it's feet. My brother shot a buck of a lifetime 3 years ago and it went almost a 1/4 mile with a hole in it's lungs. It was just that amped up cause of the rut is all we can figure. Great blood but it just took off and ran.

Froggy

I didnt mean that a well shot deer couldnt travel more then 100 yds. What I was trying to say is once it goes beyond that 100 yds it is out of your general area, there for it is open game. If you dont like this option, then put a better shot on the animal so it doesnt go that far, or hunt further away from people.

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neighborguy, wow you let him take a pic! what a guy, you should be put up for a good sportsmanship award. but thanks for reminding me why i quit huning. if the guy followed it for 400 yds there must have been a pretty good blood trail and thru 2 swamps. the guy deserved the deer. i suppose if it was a kid with his first deer you would have taken that one too. thats why i fish when i run into an one-who-thinks-I-am-silly i can just go fish somewhere else. although this summer an older couple got kind of close, i was fishing lindy rigs and as they were passing i had a hit.after feeding a little line out and setting the hook i realized the older women was also fighting a fish.(the same fish.) i opened my bail and let her fight it. she had no idea we were fighting the same fish. they got it in the net and i heard the old guy say to his wife: hey there's another hook in its mouth. thats when i hollered to them it was mine and if they would please unhook it and throw it back in. we got a kick out of it and as we were pulling away she got on her cell phone and was telling someone what a nice walleye she just caught!

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Not to complicate things on purpose or anything, but if I finish off your deer I am fully expecting you to come along and tag it.

Nothing chaps my backside worse than having to burn my tag to fix someone else's mistake

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You too bickering highlights the major point of my last post. It is so clear to me that not having direction from the DNR on this issue is a set up for fights like this and maybe even worse. Both sides have valid points backed by strong emotions based on personal philosophies of land use and property rights that go back hundreds of years.

Throw in the adrenalin of shooting a monster buck and it's a miracle we get through this every year with just a little spirited on line debate. Let's keep personality out of this and let solutions cary the day. Hans

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Kill shot gets the deer. If the deer runs by another hunter that dispatches it before it goes down, it's theirs. Personally, I don't want the DNR dictating "who gets the deer".

If I shoot one that doesn't drop, and another hunter knocks him down, the deer is not mine. I don't hunt within close proximity to other hunters and this hasn't been an issue. Closest party member is approx 1/4 - 1/2 mile. If I am within 100 yards of someone else, I better find a new stand.

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