Why is baiting illegal here?

[minnesotahunter]

bruledrifter- With all do respect, i do not agree with your comment. bear55 hit it straight on the head. If you can explain to me how alf-alfa (hay) is not a "natural" food source ill listen, but it is impossible to tell me its not. Check out some food plot websites and see some of the main ingredients in the source. one being alf-alfa or clover or chicory, all natural and native to the land. Your able to sit almost anywhere and find clover growing out of the ground. So saying that it is not a natural food source means that we can barely hunt anywhere. I just find it pretty natural if you put in tons of time in the off-season to plant something that is "native" and "natural" to the grounds that all of us hunt on anyways.

[BobT]

Apples to oranges!

Bait and food plots ALL UNNATURAL and placed by man for the benifit of man in taking game.

Funnels, oak stands, clear cuts are all NATURAL (sure, clear cuts are man made but it's for a greater purpose then deer hunting)

Ban all food plots and baiting and ban all people caught useing these methods from ever hunting again! They are not hunters!

For that matter, our hunting laws and harvest rates are there for the benefit of man to take game, are they not? How far do we run with this?

Bob

[Musky Buck]

I think that article sums it up. I wish guys after responding would put there age, year of 1st hunting season,how much land they own or hunt on, maybe some of this depends on some of that. I think we need to leave all other critters out of the debate. It's about deer and what's best for them. I thought rifle hunting the rut was good enough. Deer hunting has changed a lot. The old 320 acre dairy farms are now subdivided up into 80's or 40's. A ton of technologies of course has helped to change it. Deer need 4 things for survival, water,cover,food,and luck. The issue is food. Deer are trying to fatten up for winter, that's why we cut big chunks of fat off of them when we skin,butcher,etc. them. Like the DNR article said it's simply a lazy man's way to hunt. Example from a hunting show I watched the other night. The hunter on a private ranch walked with the owner to fill the feeders. The owner said watch this, he filled the feeder, turned it on, and they walked about a 100 yards away, it was spraying corn all over, about a minute later deer were running to eat under it, the owner said it's just like ringing the dinner bell,heck all I have to do is clang that metal feeder and they come a runnin. end of story is the next morning the guy had his pick of dozens of deer, he shot one and most of them didn't run away,spooked but not too bothered, he said what a great hunt. Now of course most Minnesotan's don't have a private ranch to bait on, does that seem like a great hunt to you? We have plenty of tools that might assist you in taking a deer, I think we need to leave there stomachs out of the equation. Just some thoughts, but if you are for baiting go give it a go in Wisc. and Mich. and see how it goes and report back, the grass isn't always greener.

[Big Dave2]

I'm agaist baiting too but comparing a food plot with natural clover to baiting is a little extreme. Let me ask again how are food plots any different than a hay field or open pasture?

I think it is the intent that is being questioned here. farm fields are there for one reason and that is to be harvested in the fall and either sold or fed to livestock. Food plots on the other hand are there to attract and hold wildlife for hunting purposes.

Black-bay, No apologies necessary. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Very good article by the way. I enjoyed reading it.

[Big Dave2]

I wish guys after responding would put there age, year of 1st hunting season,how much land they own or hunt on, maybe some of this depends on some of that.

I will if you will

38 yrs old

first hunted deer in 2000

I do not own any hunting land. Only place I have to hunt is a 50 acre piece that 3 or 4 others also hunt on and my father-in-laws uncle has a shack on 40 acres surrounded by state land up north that I am able to hunt some years as well.

[BRULEDRIFTER]

If you can explain to me how alf-alfa (hay) is not a "natural" food source ill listen, but it is impossible to tell me its not.

[Musky Buck]

Thanks B-Dave, I'm 37 years old, first season 1983, I hunt an 80 acres in Ottertail County surrounded by private land. I also hunt a 40 acre patch of creek bottom at my dad's and down the road a neighbors farm which is about 240 acres 1/2 corn 1/2 drier swamp and woods. Saw zero deer at the neighbors. The 14 pointer on my 80, and 6 deer on the creek including 1 immature 6 pointer. The reason I have taken the 21 bucks I have and the reason I have let roughly 80 bucks live is because I hunt alone and put in long hours. I also have 3 different areas I can go to and that depends on scouting for big buck sign. This year my 80 had numbers of large scrapes and rubs and luckily got that 14 pointer before he got into the water,cattail,tamarac clumps to bed down, I had 1 shooting lane and whistled and thankfully he heard that and stopped, with that wind I wasn't sure he'd stop or hear it, my lips weren't working the best at 8:01 after 2 chilly hours in the chilly metal ladder stand. If you have that many guys on 50 acres each rifle on it decreasing each of your odds and that's a lot of human scent in a small area. I rotate between 5 stands and get to them an hour before legal shooting light so if I bump something, it seems they don't freak out as bad, prior to that theory bumping them right at about legal shooting seemed to send them off on a mad dash. I have had dozens of them come by me in the dark and I always think if I were walking to my stand right now these deer would've slipped out of the area on me unbenounced to me, thanks for sharing Dave. M.B. Alcohol free since 1/2/09

[Duffman]

Interesting thread, I'm also curious what the ages are of people who are in favor of baiting? It's starting to look like the "Everybody Wins a Trophy" and the "Instant Gratification" generation are taking over the woods.

[BRULEDRIFTER]

Ok, now I'll bite...

I'm 32 and have been hunting since I could. (13-14 yrs old) I did take a 4 year hiatus post highschool/pre-college. I lost my interest for a bit.

Anyway, I have been really serious about hunting since 2001. I hunt in the north woods with miles of open public land.

I'm still gonna try some late season bow hunting, but it's looking like I'll be eating tag soup for the 3rd year! Dad got a monster though, so this year wasn't a total bust!

I love it as it is! I'm not about the rack, I love what the true meaning of hunting is about! If I get a monster, awesome, but it's not what drives me! A freezer full of nummy meat and the joy of being out in the woods is what gets me!

Ya'all can take your bait, food plots and QBM and go across the border! I love MN!!!!!!

[Bear55]

Originally Posted By: minnesotahunter

If you can explain to me how alf-alfa (hay) is not a "natural" food source ill listen, but it is impossible to tell me its not.

Yes this is a natural food source. But when native land is dug up and then planted with this food for the intended purpose of attracting wildlife and feeding them to hunt over, it crosses a big fat line! It becomes BAITING!

So an old alfalfa field is not baiting but a new "food plot" that I plant with alfalfa or clover or chicory is baiting? Before you said a clear cut was natural, what is the difference between a food plot and a clear cut as far as the deer are concerned? Nothing, they are both food sources used by deer.

[BobT]

Okay I'll kick in.

I'm 49, went on my first deer hunt in 1970. I got to carry a firearm in 1971 after getting my safety permit. I own 87 acres of farmland but I don't know if you'd consider it hunting land. I don't hunt it for deer but others have. I have primarily been a rifle hunter but did bow hunt for about 10 years. I have also been pistol hunting for the past three years while I've been introducing my daughter to the sport. I do my deer hunting in northern MN near Mt. Iron; have been since I was 12 with the exception of some bow hunting around Miltona from 1990-1992. In the scope of our discussion I guess you could call my land a food plot considering the crops that I lose to wildlife every year.

Bob

[bigbucks]

I'm 41, until tomorrow, started going with hunting when I was 9-10 maybe. First carried a gun when I was 14 I think, must have been about 1981. I hunt entirely private land in various parts of Todd County. Have permission to bowhunt on probably 12-1300 acres, 50 of my own, 100 of my Dad's, other chunks of Uncles, friends & neighbors, etc. The majority of the properties are agriculture with small wooded pieces around them, many are just pastures that are heavily grazed. Hunt one 400 acre piece of all woods, no agriculture, it's gorgeous, but I don't see near as many deer there. It's taken a lot of time to add to my list of options in both properties & stand sites, as well as to learn where, when, & how to hunt them all. Deer move a lot, many of those places have virtually no deer, at least daylight moving deer, for weeks at a time, & then bang they're great for a week or two. The presence & then removal of cattle or horses can have a huge impact on deer traffic.

I bowhunted WI two years all on private land, small woodlots near agriculture. My brother-in-law lives there, his connections. Took this year off because I took a week to hunt Muleys in WY. I'll go back to WI again next year.

I would probably bait some if it were legal, helped with a little in WI. I don't really see any problem with it ethically, but it definitely complicates things. I'm all for foodplots, but don't get the argument about how much time was put into them. Yes they're a lot of work, but who cares, does that entitle some one to a deer? I work my butt off to prep stands, scout new spots, hit the right spots, at the right time & it's been years since I haven't killed at least one deer, but do I deserve to get one? Certainly more than the guy that's poaching, but not more than any guy who's hunting legally. Will I get my deer more times than not with that approach? probably, but there's still plenty of chance involved.

[Musky Buck]

That lengthy article, Ken Soring was our Co in Wadena before he moved out, great guy and Randy Davis is another excellent CO. Now Greg Oldakowski and Tricia Plautz run our area, 2 top of the line CO's in our State, my hat goes off to them and the often times thankless god they do to the best of their abilities. Let's leave the other states to bait and we'll keep our bait called hunting the rut. We need to think of all possibilities, because i think muzzleloader baiting would be really deadly as the snow tracks wouldn't lie if they were hitting the "pile" hard deep in the swampy jungles of MN.

[Big Dave2]

Thanks B-Dave, I'm 37 years old, first season 1983, I hunt an 80 acres in Ottertail County surrounded by private land. I also hunt a 40 acre patch of creek bottom at my dad's and down the road a neighbors farm which is about 240 acres 1/2 corn 1/2 drier swamp and woods. Saw zero deer at the neighbors. The 14 pointer on my 80, and 6 deer on the creek including 1 immature 6 pointer. The reason I have taken the 21 bucks I have and the reason I have let roughly 80 bucks live is because I hunt alone and put in long hours. I also have 3 different areas I can go to and that depends on scouting for big buck sign. This year my 80 had numbers of large scrapes and rubs and luckily got that 14 pointer before he got into the water,cattail,tamarac clumps to bed down, I had 1 shooting lane and whistled and thankfully he heard that and stopped, with that wind I wasn't sure he'd stop or hear it, my lips weren't working the best at 8:01 after 2 chilly hours in the chilly metal ladder stand. If you have that many guys on 50 acres each rifle on it decreasing each of your odds and that's a lot of human scent in a small area. I rotate between 5 stands and get to them an hour before legal shooting light so if I bump something, it seems they don't freak out as bad, prior to that theory bumping them right at about legal shooting seemed to send them off on a mad dash. I have had dozens of them come by me in the dark and I always think if I were walking to my stand right now these deer would've slipped out of the area on me unbenounced to me, thanks for sharing Dave. M.B. Alcohol free since 1/2/09

The 50 acres that I hunt sometimes on opening weekend with 3 or 4 others is in shotgun range and it is all I have for that weekend. I was not as fortunate as most guys to have had a dad or some relative that was into hunting or even fishing to teach me, and get me in on a hunting camp early on. I got into the outdoors on my own and taught myself. The problem with that is now I don't have anything to hunt except these places but only if I am invited of course. I would love to own my own land and be able to access it any time I like to scout but that just is not in the cards for me at least not at this point in my life.

The 50 acres that I hunted on opener I did not see any deer but then again I don't get my choice of stand either. 2 deer were shot there that weekend though.

I was up at the hunting shack by Remer this last weekend with 4 other guys and no one saw anything. The problem with this land is that it is so thick you can barely walk through it let alone hunt it. If you ever see a deer it is so close that it is almost like hand-to-hand combat. Plus there are not the densities of deer in small areas like there are in farm country. I walked all day long on saturday, from sunup till sunset in a couple inches of snow that was a couple of days old and found very few deer tracks at all. Only a couple of areas had deer track on the trail and when I tried to follow them off the trail I would always lose the track because there was not enough snow in the dense cover of the woods in our area.

[BuckKiller]

wow i can see people have some strong feeling about baiting.

i don't think im gonna get in the middle of this one. ill just keep reading lol

P.S. happy birthday 1 day early bigbucks

[BRULEDRIFTER]

Originally Posted By: BRULEDRIFTER

Originally Posted By: minnesotahunter

If you can explain to me how alf-alfa (hay) is not a "natural" food source ill listen, but it is impossible to tell me its not.

Yes this is a natural food source. But when native land is dug up and then planted with this food for the intended purpose of attracting wildlife and feeding them to hunt over, it crosses a big fat line! It becomes BAITING!

So an old alfalfa field is not baiting but a new "food plot" that I plant with alfalfa or clover or chicory is baiting? Before you said a clear cut was natural, what is the difference between a food plot and a clear cut as far as the deer are concerned? Nothing, they are both food sources used by deer.

Dude, have you read any of my previous posts?

OK, one more time, here's where I stand on this!

An old alfalfa field that has been there and was planted for the purpose of growing alfalfa for humans I do not consider a food plot or baiting. It was put there not for the purpose of hunting over, as is a clear cut, farm field, ect.

However, once a PERSON goes to a spot and proceeds to plant a food source there for the sole intent of hunting over it, then I percieve that as baiting. I'm not sure I can be any more clear on my stance on this.

If a food source is present that was not put there for the purpose of luring an animal there to feed, in other words it occurs naturally or is there for purposes beyond our control ( like farm fields, clear cuts, apple orchards) then by all mean, it's fair game and should be used to our advantage.

I draw the line as soon as something is MANipulated by a person for the sole purpose of taking advantage of an animals need to eat in order to kill the animal.

This is no longer "hunting" to me, this is merely a lazy approach at target practice with live critters.

Hunting is about the fair chase and outsmarting an animal in its natural environment. Once a natural environment is manipulated for the sole purpose of attracting an animal, the hunt is no longer there.

I can't believe people don't see this to be honest, but it doesn't suprise me. It is quite sad though....

In the end, as long as people are with in the laws, then whatever! Too each their own! But I truely hope that our natural resource managers will stand behind the true, real approach to harvesting game and not let the lazy way take hold.

This is my opinion, and I don't care what you think of it! Take it or leave it, it's how I roll!

[Musky Buck]

Thanks bigdave, I do understand your circumstances much better and understand where you are coming from, take care.

[minnesotahunter]

thanks bear55....and for bruledrifter.... obviously you dont get the point of baiting. im sorry but 20 acres of biologic would not be considered baiting in any sense. If a deer has 20 acres to roam around and eat on, how am i creating an area which is not 100% wild, 100% fair-chase? you say your really serious about hunting since 2001? well being a serious hunter myself i find my biggest passion is protecting the deer herd, Giving them the nutrients they need to grow, and harvesting large mature whitetail. To do so, planting biologic, with perfectly legal nutrients in it, helps me create a deer herd that is abundant, one that produces large mature whitetails year after year, and one where on any given night a buck of a lifetime will step out. If you read my post i never said putting in a lot of time makes it natural, i said putting in time to grow NATIVE and NATURAL growth makes it perfectly fine in your eyes right?. You are the one who said if it was native and natural it was ok to be there, right? Maybe your just a little bitter about food plots because you hunt public land and arent able to plant the same things we are able to on private land. That is not anything against you, as i have seen numerous people harvest large deer off of public land, but you have to realize the reason behind planting food plots as i explained earlier in this post. Im not against any of your personal thoughts because they are yours, but for us who plant food plots for the sole purpose of growing large whitetail, we are not doing anything wrong. As i have stated before the DNR has put tons of research into the baiting area and they are alot smarter than me and you when it comes to what is baiting and what is not, therefor there are reasons behind why food plots are legal and a pile of "bait" is not. and a lazy approach to target practice on a live critter? cmon man, you try pulling back on a 170 inch deer and tell me its a lazy approach to target practice.

[BRULEDRIFTER]

bruledrifter.... obviously you dont get the point of baiting.

NO, obvioulsy you don't get why I believe what you do is baiting and VERY unnatural! Hmmmm, when did mother nature create biologic.....

Whatever dude, do whatever tips your cow! YOu should stop watching the outdoor channel and Jeff FoxWorthlessly!

Oh and as far as me being at all jealous....get over it! Sure I envy you for having your own lot of land, but I do not in anyway envy you for contaminating it with biologic and growing you Barry Bonds style bucks!

[minnesotahunter]

bruledrifter.... please go on the biologic HSOforum you will find every single ingredient in the mixture is NATURAL. so hmmm, seems to me mother nature came up with biologic? just a common sense formula i came up with to figure out how it was natural. Barry Bonds style bucks? nope dont see my bucks carrying a bat in their hooves while they step into the field. I see them carrying big ANTLERS... why? cause i take care of the deer herd. so i guess if seeing large deer "tips my cow" then so does it. But i do beleive that is what tips most serious deer hunter "cows".

[Jim Uran]

Food plots are put in to attract deer, why would you waste your time planting them if they don't bring in deer.(Because we like to "take care of the deer" doesn't count.) What's the difference if it's planted and grown, or just thrown out from a package or a bucket ready to eat? That's the real argument.

[Bear55]

Bruledrifter you are missing my point completely. A food plot is a food source just the same as clear cut, a alfalfa field, a bean field, a garden, someone's back yard, even a ditch along side the road. They all man made food sources the deer prefer depending on the area they live. Yet for some reason you call one baiting the rest are natural. You seem to be a little bias agaist one of those food sources for no good reason.

What about a guy who builds a stand over a fresh clear cut? Its a man made food source, he is building that new deer stand with the sole intent to hunt over it. Baiting or not?

A landowner clears some of his land to plant alfalfa for his cows. The same year he puts up a new deer stand the very same year to hunt over it that fall. Baiting or not?

[BRULEDRIFTER]

bruledrifter.... please go on the biologic HSOforum you will find every single ingredient in the mixture is NATURAL. so hmmm, seems to me mother nature came up with biologic? just a common sense formula i came up with to figure out how it was natural. Barry Bonds style bucks? nope dont see my bucks carrying a bat in their hooves while they step into the field. I see them carrying big ANTLERS... why? cause i take care of the deer herd. so i guess if seeing large deer "tips my cow" then so does it. But i do beleive that is what tips most serious deer hunter "cows".

Well, I guess I'm just not a serious deer hunter then, guy! You are better then me!

And you are totally missing my point! Sure there may be natural ingredients in Biologic, but those ingredients were not in the land prior to you dumping that carp all over it! Biologic is NOT natural!

Gee, I don't suppose those BIG ANTLERS are due to the hormones dumped into all those food plots and Biologic....Nahh didn't think so!

I'll gladly keep hunting the REAL TRUE big brusiers in the north woods w/ no help from Biologic! It may take me a few years, but I'll get one and at least I'll know it was ALL natural!

[Bear55]

Bruledrifter

When did biologic or any company that sells plant seeds use hormones? I think you might want to study up on these plants because what you are suggesting is scientifically impossible.

[BRULEDRIFTER]

Bruledrifter you are missing my point completely. A food plot is a food source just the same as clear cut, a alfalfa field, a bean field, a garden, someone's back yard, even a ditch along side the road. They all man made food sources the deer prefer depending on the area they live. Yet for some reason you call one baiting the rest are natural. You seem to be a little bias agaist one of those food sources for no good reason.

What about a guy who builds a stand over a fresh clear cut? Its a man made food source, he is building that new deer stand with the sole intent to hunt over it. Baiting or not?

A landowner clears some of his land to plant alfalfa for his cows. The same year he puts up a new deer stand the very same year to hunt over it that fall. Baiting or not?

Please re-read every one of my post over the last day. If you still can't figure out where I'm coming from, then forget it! It really doesn't matter anyway! You are not seeing from my point of view at all!

I have explained my point of view at least 3 times. If you can't decipher the difference in my mind between a "natural" food source vs. a manipulated unnatural food source then you never will.

We are on total different side of the spectrum on this! I'm done...There is nothing left to day on this.