Where's the Deer?

[KadenBear]

Every year it's either to warm, to much corn standing or some other B.S. . This year I have already heard to windy and to cold. When are people going to relize the deer heard has drastically declined. And it's not cause we have had hard winters. There are 2 groups to blame. The DNR or what I like to call them Darn Near Retarded. And then the Hunters them selfs.

Granted I understand there is area's that do have deer, but the over all population has declined. Along with the License sales. Which is going to keep dropping. If hunters keep shooting all these Does where is the future deer heard going to come from. If there is less does there is less reproduction. For example, there is a guy at work that processes deer. This weekend in 2 days they got 26 deer. Over half were Does and fawns. One guy brought in 4 does alone that his group shot. That is any where from 4-8 less fawns for next year. Another guy at work has been letting does go, and then the neighbor shoots them all. If some how Bucks magically start reproducing themselves. Which more than likely it won't happen. The heard is going to keep dropping. Hunters can't figure out what the proplem is. If they can't figure it out they need to look in the mirror. The DNR's goal want an average of 6-8 deer per square mile. That came straight from a DNR officer from Morrison county. They are getting closer to that goal sooner than they thought. The early doe season is also effecting your hunting. How many hunters hunted the early doe season and saw bucks. But so far this season have not seen any? The auto insurance company's also have there hands in this fiasco as well. My dad just had body work done on his care. The owner of the company even said the insurance company's are pressuring the DNR to get the deer heard down. It doesn't help that the state of MN plants food plots on the side of the road so the deer feed next to the road and get hit. If you are wondering where the deer are just think about it.

[kingr]

I hunt in the Tamarac National Wildlife Refuge and the deer registartions have been holding steady, but the stat that scares me is that most deer taken now are "young" 1-2 yr old deer. I agree those couple years of the intesive harvest permits did a lot of damage to the states overall herd.

With that being said I know of places where the deer are still running around like rabbits.

I do believe that the decline in numbers in the "big woods" also has to do with the rising wolf polulation. There are 3 verified packs within Tamarac and there are rumored to be 5 different packs in that "small" area alone. If that's a sample of what the population is in the state...

[Surface Tension]

I'm in an intensive harvest area and there are plenty of deer.

I'll agree with you in that insurance companies have to much power and should stay out any if Deer management.

I've seen my area go from a Closed season to Intensive Harvest.

So for many years we wouldn't dream of taking a doe. As the herd numbers increased we've started to take does. We base that on what the DNR says to a point but my final decision is based on the numbers of deer I'm seeing where I hunt. Between my son and I we can take 10 does, thats not counting the other 10 hunters in the square mile I hunt in. That would be excessive but its highly doubtful that would or could happen. Then again there is a lot of woods next to that square mile that has few if any hunters.

Taking that into account it would impossible for the DNR to micro manage the hunting season. As hunters we can adjust to the areas we hunt.

Its a big state and in the end the DNR isn't going to make everyone happy. Your best bet would be to talk with the area Wildlife Manager with questions or suggestions.

[Eng Ptr]

6 to 8 deer/ square mile?!? Did you here this first hand? I believe that this would be the harvest target in an intensive harvest area. Each DNR Fish and Wildlife Area Office sets its own goals for deer per square mile. In my area after the deer hunter survey, the target deer per square mile went from 12-15 to 23 deer per square mile.

[lcornice]

I'll agree with you in that insurance companies have to much power and should stay out any if Deer management.

While I get lots of calls, emails, and opinions on how deer should be managed, I have never, ever received a call from an insurance company regarding deer populations. I get an annual letter from the State's motorcycle safety committee about too many deer but that's as close as it comes.

[Deitz Dittrich]

Striaght from the horses mouth.. Thanks Lou!

[Roofer]

Insurance companies influence and affect every aspect of your life, whether you see it first hand or not.

[Deitz Dittrich]

Thats fine Roofer, but if Lou Cornicelli says he dosnt get stuff from Insurance companies.. I believe him.

[96trigger]

I have seen plenty of deer and lots of deer sign. The deer are around, but it has definitely been a tougher fall than normal. The weather and the late crop harvest definitly played a big role this year where I am at. Crop wise, I would say that they are right now, about a month behind. Not much has been picked in the last week or so with the wet crappy weather we have been having. I am very supportive of what the DNR has been doing, I have been hunting 342 for 20 years and I have seen it go from lottery, to managed, to intensive. I do think 5 deer is a little much, like to see it go to 3, but they are around.

[Surface Tension]

lcornice, thanks for the reply and your contributions here.

[Mark Christianson]

ditto!

[CodyDawg]

Quote: "My dad just had body work done on his care. The owner of the company even said the insurance company's are pressuring the DNR to get the deer heard down."

I just about fell off my chair laughing at this comment. Really? No less an authority on deer than a body shop owner, eh? Take that one to the bank. thanks Lou for setting that one straight right away.

By the way, how have the last, say 5 years, compared in terms of overall harvest? If memory serves, we are harvesting more deer than ever. Sounds like someone had a bad hunt and wants to blame someone else. And calling the DNR names....well, whatever.

Lou, I think you do a pretty good job managing the herds. a little tweaking here and there might be in order, but pretty good job overall. Except that the big buck turned toward the north instead of coming straight west. Do you think the DNR could have done something about that?

[Cooter]

I'll pee and moan over here in scoonie - third straight year of EAB where I'm at and its really dropped deer numbers. I shot a doe this year for the buck sticker and as much as I'd love another deer or two for the freezer I've decided not to shoot any more does. I saw 4 deer all of gun season last year. Part of the problem here is the units are so big - some portions could use extreme measures such as EAB but in other portions its gone too far. Thats my excuse anyways, and I'm stickin to it!

Most of the state went from having to apply for a hunters choice tag - odds of getting one varied but in places you could wait years for one. That allowed you to shoot a doe, but you had to use your buck tag in conjunction with the choice tag for one doe. Its gone from that to special doe seasons, free doe tags, and having to shoot a doe before a buck. Thats a big difference, a 180 degree change in management.

[hockey_19pro]

I hunt in SW MN, and I don't really know about other sections of the state, but here we only had about 50 does tags distributed this year which is quite a bit less than last year. Yes, I have seen A LOT less deer in the area this year, and hopefully reducing the number of doe tags will regenerate deer numbers in the near future. I'm definitely not an expert on this topic, this is just my input...

[McGurk]

SSDD

Same Story; Different Day (or year). In some people's opinion (not mine) the DNR's role should be to actually catch a limit of keeper walleye and put them in your livewell for you, or tie an 8 pt buck to a tree near your specified stand, and nothing less will do. Herd management does not occur at the flip of a switch; it takes years of monitoring to see a result to a decision.

2008 Density Map

If you aren't happy with your hunting, there's all kinds of non-pressured state land around us (240); have at it!

[96trigger]

The DNR should continue to manage for pupulation numbers, and let the individual hunter decide what kind of deer they want to take. I am not in favor or EAB in SEMN which has been discussed at length in another thread, I think our Deer heard is about perfect. Not too big, not too small, if somebody wants a deer, its not too terribly tough to find one. A trophy buck is a lot harder to work for, but I don't believe the DNR shoudl be the one that regulates for big bucks, they are the Department of Natural Resources and should manage for populationm, and not antler growth. The deer this year seem to be really concentrated. One 200 acre chunk is loaded with them, when the next is void of deer. Gee, what do you think causes that? Maybe that 50 acres of standing corn next to the first 200 acre woodlot, where as the next only has plowed fields and few short fields of alfalfa. We need to look at an area as a whole, not just how your particular hunt went. I have had years where I have seen double digits in deer, and years where I have seen low single digits, but I know that they are in the area, I see them on the roads and while bowhunting. A lot can change when an army of orange enters the woods with guns, deer aren't stupid.

[deerminator]

In the corn or the tall slough grass. That's where I saw them coming from and going to this morning.

[archerystud]

I'd like to see something done for bigger bucks but like 96trigger said, that is in a different thread. I would love to see a EAB but I don't think our hunter/deer ratio would allow that to work here. Maybe if our deer population were higher it would work

I did note lighter shooting this year and I don't think the weather helped. I'm also wondering if license counts are down this year, at least in zones that don't have the two different gun seasons like they did in the past.

[96trigger]

AStud, earn a buck would be great if the does were like rats, unfortunately, I am in an intensive area, and we can get a deer fairly easily, but I don't think the population is where it can sustain EAB. If you look at the density map, I don't think there is anywhere in MN that can sustain that yet.

[Roofer]

Quote: "My dad just had body work done on his care. The owner of the company even said the insurance company's are pressuring the DNR to get the deer heard down."

I just about fell off my chair laughing at this comment. Really? No less an authority on deer than a body shop owner, eh? Take that one to the bank. thanks Lou for setting that one straight right away.

I think you may be sadly misinformed. The insurance companies DO put pressure on them for the size of the deer herd. It has been on the news plenty of times in the past.

[ArcherD]

I think you may be sadly misinformed. The insurance companies DO put pressure on them for the size of the deer herd. It has been on the news plenty of times in the past.

[lcornice]

Thanks all. As this board strives to inform and educate, I'll add one more thing and let it go. Here's what I know about 'pressure'. State Farm does make an annual estimate of deer-vehicle collisions based on claims. They also issue an annual news release, which you can read here:

http://www.statefarm.com/about/media/media_releases/wv_deer_collisions.asp

To estimate collisions nationally, they extrapolate their claims against the proportion of policies they hold in that state. For example, say they have a total of 5 D-V claims in MN and hold 50% of all vehicle policies (Allstate, Prudential, etc have the rest). They would conclude there were 10 D-V collisions in Minnesota. While there may be some confounding variables (e.g., stratification of urban vs. rural policies, non-reporting from junk cars or big trucks), I bet it's pretty close given they hold a large percentage of automobile policies.

Unless someone knows something I don't (which of course is always possible), that's the extent of the pressure put on agencies for managing deer. While some may call it pressure, I call it reporting.

So unless folks on this board are privy to information I am not, ArcherD isn't misinformed.

[Roofer]

Facts???!!! This entire thread is based on some people's assumptions of the deer population.

lcornice, I also appreciate your posts as much as the next guy. Keep it up.

Aside from the influence of the insurance companies, there is also the influence of revenue. Ever think that they want to pull in a few extra dollars?????????

[grizzald]

Low deer numbers are just something a guy has to fight threw.. It's not fun I know! I hunt north of Appleton about 12 miles along the Pomme de Terre River bottoms on our own private land, and we dont have much for deer here. Haven't had much for the last 4-5 years. But, the DNR is making strides to better the herd in this area. 30 doe permits have been issued in this area for this year as well as last year, which has helped some, but the numbers are still no where close to what they used to be. Thankfully this year there is still some standing corn here, so that should save a few if they can sit tight for a few more days. Maybe, IMO, the Minnesota DNR should take a look at what the North Dakota DNR does to manage the deer. My dad and uncle bow hunted up there a few weeks ago and my uncle had 13 bucks go by him one evening... I dont think I've seen 13 bucks the last two years combined while hunting here...

[Shack]

Quote:

Where's the Deer?

Well I would say about 30 of them where in a field off of 136th tonight, laughing at me when I came home.

Deer are smart and if you do not see them, look in the mirror to find the solution

I would say their are more than plenty deer in the middle parts of the state. I would say more deer than hunters.

Just have to be smarter than the deer , which I have not been able to do this season.

Thanks lcornice for the info!