Your QDM Experience

[archerystud]

Okay so everyone agrees that a deer hunter loves to see deer. I also think that it is safe to say that most people would prefer to see a buck over a doe.

Let me throw another wrinkle into the mix.

Assume for instance that the DNR came up with some way of having a minimum size requirment before a buck could be shot. And lets assume that in most cases a buck would need to be 3.5 years old before it could be legally shot.

Obviously there would still be some "other" mortality in those bucks but I think currently the mortality rate on a 1.5 year old buck is like 85%. Let's say in the above scenario the mortality rate dropped to 20% on the 1.5 year old bucks. Of course some 2.5 year old bucks would be lost as well.

However, can you imagine how many more bucks hunters would see in the above scenario? There would obviously be many more bucks in the woods and hunters in turn would see many more bucks.

The DNR has managed the state deer herd to increase deer numbers for a long time. I would love to see a test of QDM for 3 years.

Then after that lets take a statewide poll on hunters in the state and see what they prefer.

I guess my point is don't knock it until you've tried it.

[Coach1310]

I hear what you are saying Bear55. To be honest with you, I think the only way to stay in that middle ground is without changes by the DNR. I think we as hunters can create a herd with more mature bucks by selecting what we harvest and shooting more does. As soon as there is a statewide antler restriction from the DNR or a big push to harvest more does by the DNR, I think we will turn into Iowa and Illinois.

[archerystud]

I think hunters will progress over time and do their own QDM and the DNR will not be involed. Fifteen years ago no one around me would pass up any deer. In the last few years more and more people are beginning to let some young bucks go.

I'm also fortunate to have some very good land to hunt on. But last year was one of the frustrating examples. I passed up a spike buck on 8 straight outings on one property and I'm quite positive it was the same one. I only had one spike on my camera last year. It is 120 acres and it didn't matter which stand I hit, he ended up walking by.

My cousin shot it with a muzzleloader in Dec on the property next to ours. He was so close to making through that first year.

[fishinmajishin]

I think there should be a does-only season for one year. Archery would be exempt of course.

[candiru]

As someone who has passed on smaller bucks in the past, I have come to resenting QDM when people want to pass regulations to impose this on me. I also see it as part of the "hunting" show culture. I find many of these shows disgusting with the only thing that matters is how big the antlers are, the $$$$, and what the "gimmick" of the week is. (crossbow,muzzleloader...etc..) I actually tune in some of these shows to see how bad they are. I actually heard a TV host say "shooting a 1 and a 1/2 year old buck is like cutting down a teenager in the prime of life". I sometimes tune in this show to see how "bad" it is. I am also dissapointed in a Twin Cities based outdoor retailer for sponsoring this particular host. Stuff like that makes me want to go out and shoot small bucks. I mostly just check this stuff out when flipping channels or leave it on as background when doing other stuff.

Please don't say QDM doesn't have a downside. More big bucks means less access to land for the hunter that doesn't have the $$$. It won't matter if the landowner is your friend or a shirtail relative, if enough money gets waved in front of them, the land will get leased. MN could be very attractive with the guarenteed buck tag and relatively cheap license. Making it hard for "Joe Six Pack" to get out and hunt is not good for the future of the sport. I don't have a problem if folks want to pass on small bucks ,but let it be their own choice.

[SDbowhunter]

I dont like the idea of making laws to force people what to do. If land owners get together and work together QDM can become a reality. Look up Hillview Management. My father owns a little 40 acre chunk in that area and it is amazing what people can do when they get together. In another near by area my brother and I are a couple of the youngest hunters in our group to start passing small bucks and harvesting does for meat. It has spread to my cousins and uncles and our hunting keeps getting better. The neighbors are starting to get on board. I get no enjoyment on shooting small bucks and get more excitement shooting smart old does then taking a young buck.

[PerchJerker]

Assume for instance that the DNR came up with some way of having a minimum size requirment before a buck could be shot. And lets assume that in most cases a buck would need to be 3.5 years old before it could be legally shot.

Obviously there would still be some "other" mortality in those bucks but I think currently the mortality rate on a 1.5 year old buck is like 85%. Let's say in the above scenario the mortality rate dropped to 20% on the 1.5 year old bucks. Of course some 2.5 year old bucks would be lost as well.

However, can you imagine how many more bucks hunters would see in the above scenario? There would obviously be many more bucks in the woods and hunters in turn would see many more bucks.

I think there's one flaw in your logic here archerystud. You're assuming that with more 2.5 and 3.5 year old bucks in the woods we'd see them, just like we see the 1.5 year old spikes and forks now. But I don't think that's really what would happen, because all the studies I've seen on deer behavior and deer movement indicate that 1.5 year olds will move around in daylight, but older bucks are much more solitary and nocturnal. If everything in your scenario happened like you say then there would be more bucks around, but that doesn't automatically mean you'd see them more often (except for in the rut of course when they're moving all the time ---- and some QDM proponents want to move hunting season out of the rut to protect more bucks).

[harvey lee]

In North Dakota where we whun, we have control of approx 3 sections along with thousands of acre where no one shoots smaller bucks. In the past 5 years we have without a doubt seen our the number of nicer bucks grow.

If one can control what get harvested, then I do believe that the qualty of the bucks will only get better. The trick as always is that one still needs to fin them and get a good shot. We hunt mostly by means of archery.

[tunrevir]

We practice selective harvest at our land in Wisc. We work the property during the summer months, cutting brush, putting in food plots, mowing trails, the woods are logged throughout the winter months and spring. We have a group of eight hunters on 660 acres of land. We have multiple trail cameras out and can identify many of the bucks from one year to the next through sheds and the unique characteristics to the antlers. We went to QDM 5 years ago and have been seeing a gradual rise in larger antlered deer on the property. 5 years ago 0 bucks were taken but everyone took does for the meat pole. 4 years ago 1 deer met the 140" minimum and was harvested, for the past three years 2-3 deer a year meet the 140 and above class and go onto the shooter list. We continue to take a set number of does each year to reduce the buck to doe ratio. We are seeing many more bucks in the 2.5-3.5 ages that are sporting decent headgear. The downside to QDM is that you can't keep the deer on the property and there is a risk they will get shot. We have found that there are deer that will never make the magic 140" class even when given prime forage throughout the year and need to be shot. The other thing to consider, is that when you start getting alot of mature deer rutting there is the possibility of death through fighting, death and/or exhaustion from rutting and fighting, broken tines and you may lose deer of superior genetic makeup off the property through dominance battles with larger (older) deer. We had a nice 3.5 y.o. 12pt. last year that was chased off the land by a wide antlered 9 pt. and subsequently shot by a hunter on the adjacent property. We wanted to keep the 12 around for genetic stock but it just didn't work out. The wide nine is approximately 6.5-7.5 y.o this year and is on the shooter list as both a cull deer and a trophy. I would say he will score in the 130's quite easily but has shown only minimal increases in rack size over the past three years. Our camp hosts youth hunts in conjunction with the DNR and we are able to mentor and assist some young up and coming hunters take deer and there are no limits set on what they can and can't shoot. Our goal is to pass on the hunting heritage and ethics we have learned, teach our kids and others about the joys of hunting and about being good stewards of the land, to teach about selective harvest to promote a quality hunting experience for the generations that follow us. Our younger up and coming hunters are being taught safe handling of firearms, safe practices entering in and out of stands, how to stalk, how to make safe drives, how to spot critter sign and read it and how to work the land. These are all things that are included in our QDM program. The mentoring is probably the best part because you are teaching through words, deeds and actions which will help to carry on the tradition of QDM for years to come. It is infinately harder to manage smaller tracts of land for QDM unless you can get the surrounding landowners and most importantly hunters all involved and on the same page. I feel fortunate to have the oppurtunity to have the kind of acerage available to me to work and hunt on. Good luck hunting!

Tunrevir~

[archerystud]

Perchjerker,

All I'm saying is that if there are more bucks around people will see more bucks. How many 1.5 year olds get shot in the first two days of gun season? If they were not shot in the first day or two would others not get an opportunity to see them.

IMO if there were more mature deer around they would have more competition and would move more. I do realize that a 4-8 year old deer will still never move around as much as a 1-2 year old deer.

[slimngrizzly]

I know what your saying and agree 100% archerystud. More mature bucks= more competition= more daylight activity= more excitement in the stand!

Whether theres 1 or 100, the BIG boys will always be a challenge. It would just be nice to know theyre there!

[Bear55]

It is really hard to say what would work best, I'm not sure I am for any legislation to protect the bucks but it might be what some people need to see what QDM can do for their area. It seems to be working well in PA and a lot of people who were against it at first are now happy with the regulation.

Now say things change down the road and the bucks are older and have more competition, some may get injuried or die from exhaustion but I think they would rather have lived a couple more years than get shot when they were so young. As it is now you might have one mature buck per 5-10 square miles who runs himself to near death trying to breed every doe he can and chase off all the young bucks. A little competition might be good for him.

[slimngrizzly]

I would dare say that if you checked with hunters in areas that are strictly managed, most would say they DO NOT have a huge problem with all sorts of sick, run down, goured up, trophy bucks limping around. A few im sure, but not to where its a problem or concern.

In all actuality, its quite the opposite. Here, where the buck/doe ratio is off, few bucks are responsible for servicing multiple does. Many are not bred and cycle again and again, this results in a few bucks doing all the breeding until late in the year. Theres documentation of does being bred in February. This means run down bucks and late fawns.

This is why they should consider making the season later, following the rut, so the deer could successfully breed when the ratio is closer. Now the bucks are literally shot off the does backs.

[skee0025]

I hunt primarily for Doe's. I think they taste better and you cant eat antlers, no matter how big they are. Heres my rub with people that want QDM. Too many people out there want to legislate what they consider "Quality Deer" You want to pass on 1.5 to 2.5 deer go ahead, but dont tell me what I have to do. If I have a chance at a decent buck or it is later in the season and still no doe, Who are you to deterine what I can or cant shoot. You wont shoot less than an 8 pointer, good for you. Ive seen many 6's that were very big deer and if some people had their way I would have to pass on those. I guess my point is keep your nose out of my hunt and I will keep my nose out of yours.

[Studer]

I think this is a great thread but a very touchy one at that!!! On this site you have so many different kinds of outdoorsman out there for so many different reasons and nobody is going to totally see eye to eye. When I first started hunting, if it was brown it was down. I needed to get a few under my belt at that point but now have been huntingfor quite awhile and have harvested many deer. We have also atlked about in our "parties" that we need to practice QDM and thin out the does. As far as all the talk about people shooting young bucks and passing on a doe....What is the point??? A doe tag is for a doe and I can say if I had a spike and a does in front of me.....The doe would be down. That's just me. Everyone has their right to do what they want but if at all possible, and you have the resources and will power to do it, lets the young bucks walk. Opening morning last year I shot two does within 45 seconds of eachother and about 30-45 min later a little basket six came in and was nudging the dead deer on the ground and fighting with it. This deer hung around for at least 45 min to an hour and I was not going to shoot it. Yeah we were party hunting and people needed to fill tags but we had talked about passing on the little guys. So that is what I did. Of course I went back to camp and told the story and got beasted on about passing on one. Oh well, it just takes a group effort to make that work. Don't have the QDM talk and that night come dragging in a spike. I guess whatever, I would love to practice QDM but like I said, it takes the whole village to make it work. GETTING FIRED UP HERE FOLKS!!!!