what would happen if???...

[Roofer]

Who cares who is an atvam member or not. I am, and have not received anything of even being a member. They can't even update the site half the time.

I have heard to be patient since 2000, and a few trails have been changed along with a few laws, but the trails are mostly all dead ends because of swamps. I haven't heard anything about getting together to build bridges, clear trails, etc. Alot of people are lucky if they have time to ride. I am willing to help. I have a business that will gladly take some state money to clear and build trails. The problem is that it takes a year's worth of meetings just to build a bridge from this trail to that trail. Why isn't these type of things sent out in a newsletter of some kind? There are some willing to help, but don't know what to do. It gets old just contributing money and waiting. Kind of reminds me of taxes.

[Roofer]

BTW, I think Kodiak's intention was to spark some enthusiasm, not to set us out on a crime spree, like some seem to think.

[Big Dave2]

Roofer,

There are quite a few things happening up-north. Do you get the Atvam e-mails? I seem to get a couple a week I think.

[Roofer]

I posted the one and only email I have gotten from atvam on this thread. That is all I have gotten so far. What's happening up north?

Maybe some new threads could be posted about this stuff. I like hearing good info about progress and I'm sure others do also.

[Dave S]

I think Kodiak's initial question was an honest one and he doesn't need to be nailed to a cross for asking. But he did find out what would happen after posting such a question.

The plus side to this is that there is obviously a lot of people who are intested in doing the right thing.

I think we all share Kodiak's frustration in that we don't have much for trails here in Southern MN both for ATV's and OHM's and as Roofer stated, our registration fees and memberships to organizations are more like a tax. We pay pay pay and have to wait to get something done.

I say our best bet is to contact our local legislators and have them pressure the DNR to open the trail between Shakopee and Belle Plaine to ATV's in the summer.

I know our rep for my area is Laura Brod.

[BobT]

 Quote:

200+ atv's atver's showed up and rode the trail from shakopee to jordan in protest of the state law on atv trails and our paying of dues with no benifets.

that would make a statement.

You are absolutely right! It would make a statement all right. It would state that we ATVers are immature radicals that prefer to throw temper tantrums rather than use diplomacy.

So what are you asking us to do? Support your idea? Sorry, but you wouldn't find me standing along side you in this case because I believe the statement made would do more harm than good.

Not arguing with you, just stating my opinion.

Bob

[Roofer]

Not arguing either, but you should read the posts before you say anything.

I remember reading how this happened somewhere, but can't remember details. Something about atv's at a capitol.

Anyways, if they keep saying "NO" about everything, it creates the immature radicals you talk of. They are called rebels. You can only push people to a point.

Between pushing smokers out the door, all of the spanish language [PoorWordUsage], and illegal workers, people are already on edge. Now we have recession and the election coming. It's going to be rough. I would gladly move north (Canada) if I was able to.

[Dave S]

Let's not allow this thread to get out of hand guys. The banter is no better than some of the interpretations of this thread and can damage our sport.

Look back at the title of the thread, it was a question, not a suggestion.

Remember this is the internet and it's too easy to misinterpret what people are saying. So choose your words carefully.

[Roofer]

What?

J/K

You're right.

[Kodiak]

i guess i am a rebel then...

thanks roofer and lep7mm for seeing what this posting was about i wasnt suggesting we do it it was and idea for protest.

i havent heard any other ideas besides show up at the capitol...which has already been done a million times...how many areas do we have that are not 5 hours north?

i know the ATVAM has done alot of good things but we NEED to get an area around here. There are the bodies to do it, how come it does not happen. I have to drive to iowa or sd to ride. The fact remains we live in a state that would rather give our rights away while making us pay for it with $$ while they tell us it is still not fair for them??

anytime there is something good they close it down "bauers pit"

[Kodiak]

i just emailed my rep R. Joe Hoppe (chaska)

here was the body of the emial.

Joe-

My name is Jason Fuhrman, I own a house in Chaska and have lived in Chaska for 5 years. I moved to Minnesota when I got out of college and have found the laws against ohms, and atvs outrageously strict compaired to the money we have to pay to own them. In Minnesota owning a dirtbike or 4wheeler is more of a tax than a registration. Why register something if you cannot ride it?

I do not know how you feel on this subject, but could you please pass on my opinion.

I feel we need to have some riding areas around the metro, perferably opening up the trail from shakopee to jordan that is a snowmobile trail and having it a multiuse trail in the summer time and allow atver's. Please look into it if you could and provide a voice for us in establishing riding areas in the metro area. It is expensive to drive 5 hours north to ride a logging trail. We pay our registration fees, don't we deserve somewhere to ride?

thank you,

Jason Fuhrman

[Scott K]

Kodiak, good job!

I wrote a letter to mine a few years ago, and I wish I had the reply letter saved but I deleted it. It said something like, most of us oppose of atv trails in the southern part of the state, we are in the middle of making laws stricter concerning atv use in the southern part of the state. This is when they passed the law that you can not drive your atv in water, swamp, river bed, ect...

Now this has been a few years ago, I dont remember the person that was in office then, or do I know who is now, but it would be worth a try for everyone to send some sort of letter to let them know that we are here and not happy with what we have in our part of the state.

[Big Dave2]

Well, the only reason I have the opinion that I do is that I HAVE made an effort through a local club to make some of these things happen and I HAVE seen how hard it is. Nothing in Government happens fast or easy, we all should know that by now! But there are things happening, there is a proposal to link the Red top with 2 other trail systems up toward Hill City and to the west of there. Unfortunately I did not save the e-mails or the HSOforum where this can be found but I assure you it is happening.

All I am saying is that there are people out there donating their own time and effort to get some of these things done. If you think you can do a better job then go for it. No one is telling anyone of you that you can't try. Set up a meeting with DNR officials like I did and see what you can do! If you want some names I can probably provide that for you if I can find the information.

I welcome anyone to get on-board and give it a try. But sitting here complaining about what the govt. won't do for you won't get it done. You can't just demand anything especially when you are in the vast minority. There are a lot more non-ATVers than there are ATVers so that is why diplomacy is in order.

[Big Dave2]

 Originally Posted By: Kodiak

i just emailed my rep R. Joe Hoppe (chaska)

here was the body of the emial.

Joe-

My name is Jason Fuhrman, I own a house in Chaska and have lived in Chaska for 5 years. I moved to Minnesota when I got out of college and have found the laws against ohms, and atvs outrageously strict compaired to the money we have to pay to own them. In Minnesota owning a dirtbike or 4wheeler is more of a tax than a registration. Why register something if you cannot ride it?

I do not know how you feel on this subject, but could you please pass on my opinion.

I feel we need to have some riding areas around the metro, perferably opening up the trail from shakopee to jordan that is a snowmobile trail and having it a multiuse trail in the summer time and allow atver's. Please look into it if you could and provide a voice for us in establishing riding areas in the metro area. It is expensive to drive 5 hours north to ride a logging trail. We pay our registration fees, don't we deserve somewhere to ride?

thank you,

Jason Fuhrman

There, now thats a good start. Now take the next step and sit in on a Shakopee club meeting and see what has already been done and what needs to happen next!

[BobT]

Yes, LEP7MM, it was a question and the question was what would happen if a bunch of ATVers gathered and drove down a forbidden trail in protest. I gave my answer stating that what would happen is that they would send the wrong message and they would do it illegally. If Kodiak was only interested in hearing answers that he favored then perhaps he should have said so. If you ask a question don't you think you should also be prepared for the answers even if you may not like what you hear?

Bob

[Kodiak]

well than maybe instead of having that atv record parade up in silver bay where next to NOone will see it. Have it in st paul by the capital so the news can cover it and get some attention.

[Dave S]

BobT,

your demeaner can come off as being a little strong. But like I said, this IS the internet and I will refrain from seeing it that way.

In defense of Kodiak, I don't think his intent was to have everyone in this thread basically reword what the previous poster has said, hence his reply to the posts. The initial points were taken. Many of us have tried to steer this into the right direction so lets not waste the efforts of those and keep this thread civil.

Thank You!!!!

[Big Dave2]

We should all focus our energy on trying to figure out a solution to the problem. If we put our heads together I am sure that we can come up with a proposal that may be at least feasable.

Anyone up for going to a Shakopee club meeting just to see what has been done already? Meetings are the 3rd wed. of the month at 7:00 at Cities Edge.

[Big Dave2]

Kick-Off Meetings Held for 70-Mile Trail Project

More than 150 people provide input to the project

Aitkin, MN – More than 150 people attended two kick-off meetings held November 27th and 28th for the 70-Mile Trail project. The project includes approximately 70 miles of new ATV/OHM recreational trail segments to be located in Aitkin and Itasca Counties. The project was proposed by the Land Departments in Aitkin and Itasca Counties and is supported with state funding through the Minnesota Department of Natural Resources.

“One of the reasons the grant for the project was awarded to Itasca and Aitkin County was because of the emphasis their proposal put on public stakeholder input,” says Mary Broten, with the Minnesota Department of Natural Resources, Trails and Waterways Division.

The proposed plan includes new trail segments that will link existing trails and create a system that totals nearly 500 miles. The kick-off meetings were held in the City of Warba in Itasca County and McGregor in Aitkin County. Participants at the meetings were invited to review the proposed trail routes and provide feedback to the project committee.

“The project is taking a systems approach and looking at the big picture for managing motorized recreation in the area,” says Mark Jacobs, Aitkin County Land Commissioner.

To help with the design and development of the project, the project oversight committee includes 19 representatives from the region. The committee members have all signed on and made a commitment to the project goals.

The goals for the project include developing a project that provides at least 70 miles of new trail with desirable destination points for users, a transparent public process for engaging communities, enhanced enforcement efforts, and an environmentally-sensitive design that addresses environmental protection via a comprehensive assessment.

The committee has also approved a contract for project coordination services with Dovetail Partners, a non-profit forestry group based in Minneapolis, and Applied Ecological Services, an environmental consulting firm from Prior Lake,

“This is a dedicated bunch of people attempting to develop a state-of-the art trail system,” says Jacobs.

The next meeting of the Oversight Committee is on Tuesday, December 18th at 6:00PM at the Long Lake Conservation Center in Palisade, Minnesota. The agenda will include a review of comments and input received at the kick-off meetings. Committee meetings are open to the public and time is reserved on the agenda for public input.

For more information or to view a map of the proposed overall trail system with the draft new alignments, visit the project HSOforum

http://www.70MileTrail.net

Thank you for your support of ATVing in Minnesota!

[Big Dave2]

DNR NEWS - FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE MARCH 13, 2007

Media contacts: Brian McCann, Planner, DNR Division of Trails & Waterways, (651)-259-5627. For copies of the publication, Contact Minnesota Bookstore at 651/297-3000 or 1-800-657-3757. Contact them online at http://www.minnesotasbookstore.com. Refer to Stock No. 9-66. (Flyer Attached)

DNR publishes new sustainable trail development guidelines

The Minnesota Department of Natural Resources (DNR) is pleased to announce the completion of its’ much anticipated “Trail Planning, Design & Development Guidelines”. This new 300-page spiral-bound publication, several years in the making, provides a first-ever comprehensive ‘how-to guidebook’ for developing all types of recreational trails. These ‘best practices’ for professonal trail builders are intended to aid Minnesota land managers in applying new, innovative and environmentally ‘sustainable’ approaches to trail planning, design and construction.

According to Pete Webber, Special Projects Director with the International Mountain Biking Association (IMBA) of Boulder, Colorado, the new publication is among the very best. He noted that “by detailing a variety of trails from greenways to single-track, Minnesota’s new trail manual provides an impressive range of information in one of the most complete and helpful planning resources available”. Long a leader in natural-surface trail design, IMBA, who served as a consultant on this project, has also just released it’s fourth in a series of highly-acclaimed Trail Design Guides entitled: “Managing Mountian Biking”, aimed at mountain bike trail builders and trail managers.

Development of the Minnesota Trail Guidelines was funded, in large part, by dedicated trail funds, with additional support from the Federal Highway Administration’s National Recreational Trails Program. The project was undertaken in response to the growing, changing demands for trails of all types; particularly the rapid growth in off-highway vehicle trail use. The DNR expects this guidebook to prove useful for grant-in-aid trail clubs and volunteers, local government sponsors, educators, and both public and private land managers.

The guidelines address both new and existing trail corridors, summer and winter-use trails, and multi-use trails with paved or naturally-surfaced treadways. Practical, low-cost and ‘low-tech’ solutions to the unique challenges faced by Minnesota trail builders are highlighted, recognizing the state’s wide range of soil and site conditions, riparian area concerns and climatic extremes. Trail project planning, funding, permitting and environmental review steps are also discussed and references provided for those wishing to learn more.

To order copies of the new publication contact Minnesota’s Bookstore at 651/297-3000 or Toll Free at 1-800-657-3757. You may also visit the Minnesota Bookstore online at http://www.minnesotasbookstore.com. Refer to Stock No. 9-66.

[Roofer]

Why this is not on the atvam HSOforum I have no idea. Thanks for the info.

Maybe we should take over the site and keep it updated. I have more riding pics on my ipod! lol

[Dave]

Roofer, I'm sure ATVAM would appreciate your help. Go for it!

[Big Dave2]

Actually I don't have any of the ATVAM e-mails anymore because I just went through and deleted a bunch of stuff out of my personal e-mail so this stuff did come directly off of the ATVAM HSOforum.

[Augusta]

I agree with everyone's concerns in regards to ATVAM, it would be great if you guys could come to the spring or fall convention to let them know your concerns.

[Dave S]

ATVAM should be our #1 venue for information in regards to ATV news, upcoming events, or just general gatherings such as what we have planned for the 16th. It's sad they don't keep it updated more often.

Augusta and Dave,

Are you guys going to join us? BigDave, Roofer, titelines, and a couple others are hoping for good weather for a "unofficial" FM get together.