Portable heaters, Are they safe?

[_point_5]

Hi, does anybody know whether or not propane heaters are safe, either in permanent or portable houses? Do you need a fresh air vent? I bought a Pak Shack, and I want to use a propane lantern and I was wondering.

>>>Thanks

[Dan Brelje]

I believe you should be alright. With the amount of air flowing into and out of portable shacks most heaters and lanterns will be fine.

[winniewalleye777]

I have had no problems in the past. The only problem I have heard of is burning the canvas, which can get expensive. I guess you may want to have a vent, but I never use one and have never had a problem.

[Nate McVey]

In a pacshack, I would think a headlamp would be enough light, unless you are using the lantern for heat......I use a Mr. Heater and a 20 lb. tank in my portable and have never passed out from fumes.

[Pikeslayer]

No propane heater is 100 percent safe!A lantern does not burn as clean as a Mr Heater Buddy heater witch has a oxigen sensor.If you use a lantern for heat I would open a vent!If you get a headache,get some fresh air and try a diffirant type of heater.

[slipperybob]

Fuel combustion takes away oxygen and gives of carbon monoxide/dioxide as by product. I'll favor more room, better ventilation for a fuel burning lamp.

Coleman has personal heaters that offer a catylyst combustion to help out with dangerous by product.

I do remember first few times with propane, butane, or kerosene combustions and they all gave me headaches. It was merely the fumes, but over the years I sort of got use to the smell and it no longer makes me nauseated.

[Pikeslayer]

You may THINK! you got over it,but lets face the FACTS. Carbon monoxide will KILL YOU!! You dont just get used to it!It will give you a headache,make you sleepy and then your wife has the sheriff go look for you because you didnt come home for two days!!THINK ABOUT IT!!

[slipperybob]

FACT: Carbon monoxide is clear and odorless. It's not a fume that a person can get use to it. It robs oxygen by combining the oxygen molucule with it to form Carbon dioxide gas, which is a heavier gas and would tend to stay low in a small encloser. What happens when you go to sleep and lay your head down? You get that much lower to the ground. The pertroleum combustables are generally made of Hydro Carbon molecules.

You burn something, you're gonna smell it. Be it bacon grease, oil, gasoline, or even cigarettes. It'll affect you, if you're not use to it.

[TMauer14]

Its all about the Buddy Heater. Warms it quick. has an automatic shut off if oxygen levels get to low and Carbon Dioxide,Monoxide Etc. Are too high. Its top of the line

[Pleasant]

I have to vote for the buddy heaters also, I have used other ways mentioned to heat over the years and I really really love my buddy heater. Was one of the best ice fishing investments I have made.

Lynn J.

[TimR]

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FACT: Carbon monoxide is...<snip> It robs oxygen by combining the oxygen molucule with it to form Carbon dioxide gas, which is a heavier gas and would tend to stay low in a small encloser. <snip>

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Just incase any kids are here reading this, the above is not correct. CO is dangerous because hemeglobin in red blood cells has a greater affinity for CO than it does for O2. This affinity is such that it is difficult for the body to strip the CO from the heme, decreasing the oxygen carrying capacity of the blood. Double whammy - you have a difficult time getting rid of it, and you can't get as much oxygen while it is stuck there.

Tim

[eyebjim]

While no propane heater is 100% safe, I have to say I feel much more comfortable with the buddy. I have had it shut off several times from low O2. I just had to open the door and get O2 in to re-light. The point is it stopped before killing me and it let me know I needed more vent. I wouldn't trust it in a air tight situation for sleeping cause you it could fail and kill you.

[surfMN1510]

I have a portable propane heater that i use...i always leave one door opened at the top though for ventilation. I use a big propane tank which i attach a hose and keep the tank outside...i also invested in one of those little filters. Have had no problems and heats my house real nice!

[zamboni]

Well, most of you have read and even commented on my thread from last night. I love my Big Buddy, and in that PakShack on low (when it was working) I was sweating. JUST BE CAREFUL- TEST your fittings, and if you SMELL gas (like I did) DON'T light it (I'm a bonehead). Be safe out there

[fishinJohn]

Just a quick question, is it better to have the top of the door open or the bottom for venting? I used mine for the first time yeterday and I had the door open at the top a little and the two vents open but I still thought there were a lot of fumes. I think I might stick to running it in low.

[slipperybob]

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FACT: Carbon monoxide is...<snip> It robs oxygen by combining the oxygen molucule with it to form Carbon dioxide gas, which is a heavier gas and would tend to stay low in a small encloser. <snip>

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Just incase any kids are here reading this, the above is not correct. CO is dangerous because hemeglobin in red blood cells has a greater affinity for CO than it does for O2. This affinity is such that it is difficult for the body to strip the CO from the heme, decreasing the oxygen carrying capacity of the blood. Double whammy - you have a difficult time getting rid of it, and you can't get as much oxygen while it is stuck there.

Tim

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????? I forget my basic chemistry is not correct? CO is a by product of combustion when there isn't enough O2 to form CO2. Atomic mass of CO is lighter then O2. Atomic mass of CO2 is heavier than O2. There's going to be some mixing. At some point two CO combines with O2 molecule to form two CO2 molecules. But what do people tend to do when they're feeling lightheaded and sleepy? Lay their head down...Not only are you breathing in CO but you're also not taking in any O2, by sheer atomic mass of gases. Keep breathing CO2.

The danger of CO is...as stated. When inhaled the CO combines in the bloodstream to make COHb bond that dispaces O2. I think called carboxyhemoglobin. The other problem is misdiagnosis of CO posioning.

Takes the body about 12-24 hours to get rid of it with good supply of O2. Something like three to four hours for the CO bond to become CO2. However recovery from the symptons of CO posioning is slow and may affect victims for several weeks. Those who have loss consciousness may even experience problems for the rest of their lives.

CO posioining also occurs during inhalation of paint thinners. Something to do with the liver creating CO in bloodstream. That's all medical stuff, too much for me.

Treatment in hospital can be pressure oxygen chamber.

Are we talking kids or med students?

[Ferny]

Chemistry lesson aside, I love my Buddy heaters.

No more headaches and they are super quiet! I really don't miss that jet engine sound (ie. sunflower roar) anymore. Does anybody else miss it?

Really the only thing I don't like is they blow out easily compared to the sunflower type.

I see they are advertised as indoor safe.

What else does the catalytic element burn up to make these things so awesome? Come on chem E's!

Thanks,

Ferny

[slipperybob]

Hmm. I'm not a CE, but, I do know that a catylic converter helps to make nitrous oxide break down into nitrogen and oxygen plus make carbon monoxide become carbon dioxide as well as makes more water vapor. I don't know if it actually burns up anything. Just that I'd wish Coleman's catylic heaters, they make one in a capacity like that of a big buddy heater. I'll buy it. I use my Coleman proCat if I want to go to sleep. The chances of CO poisioning is greatly reduced.

I've got to admit, jet engine roar puts out a lot of heat. But I don't miss it with a Big Buddy Heater.

[TimR]

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<snip of old quotes>

????? I forget my basic chemistry is not correct? CO is a by product of combustion when there isn't enough O2 to form CO2. Atomic mass of CO is lighter then O2. Atomic mass of CO2 is heavier than O2. There's going to be some mixing. At some point two CO combines with O2 molecule to form two CO2 molecules.

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You've got it right up till here. Unless you got some radicals floating around, or a nice catalyst, the CO in your fishouse is going to stay CO.

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But what do people tend to do when they're feeling lightheaded and sleepy? Lay their head down...Not only are you breathing in CO but you're also not taking in any O2, by sheer atomic mass of gases. Keep breathing CO2.

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Yup, I don't disagree.

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<snip of CO and heme basics>

Are we talking kids or med students?

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Well, what you originally said is below. Yes, it's correct that in the troposphere there are hydroxyl radicals that assist in the CO being oxidized to CO2, or that it happens with a precious metal catalyst. However, in the fish house world we are operating in, it is more correct to say the issue with CO is how it interacts with the blood, rather than the minimal (if any) consumption of 02 it has in the oxidation of CO.

]

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FACT: Carbon monoxide is clear and odorless. It's not a fume that a person can get use to it. It robs oxygen by combining the oxygen molucule with it to form Carbon dioxide gas, which is a heavier gas and would tend to stay low in a small encloser. What happens when you go to sleep and lay your head down? You get that much lower to the ground. The pertroleum combustables are generally made of Hydro Carbon molecules.

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Just my two cents, and it's probably not even worth what you paid for it.

=]

Tim

[SM1]

Serveral people have noted they like their "Buddy" Heaters. I know there is the Big Buddy and the Portable Buddy. I am looking at buying the portable buddy, 4000-9000btu, for my fish trap. Is anyone using a portable buddy and if so how are they?

[FishinChad]

They will definatly deplete your oxygen if you dont vent, even in a portable. Not always to the point where you notice it, but it happens. If you have a lighter, you will not be able to lighte it if there is not enough oxygen in the air. We found this out last year when all of our lighters decided to quit lighting at once. Took us about 15 mins to realize we were low on oxygen, we vented the house out and all lighters worked again. If you are worried, bring a lighter and just flick it to light it every 15-30 mins to make sure your ok. It gives you a nasty headache if you get to the point where your lighter wont work anymore!

[BoxMN]

I use one in a 2 man. It works great. It is warm enough on all but the coldest days (-10). I also have a mini-sunflower that goes on a 1 pound can, that I always bring along as backup or for those colder days.

Wind does blow the Buddy Heater out now and then, but it is easy to start it back up with the push of a button. I like that if a door blows into the heater it won't melt it, and less likely to have a line melt if it gets touches by accident. And you can grab it and store it almost right away, unlike the sunflower.

Not sure if I want a Big Buddy right now, but my shack is small, and heavy enough with all my dump

[slipperybob]

I think that between the buddy and big buddy is not just size and weight, but the ability to quickly warm up an area. My friend has a buddy heater and it works great, I've just gotten the big buddy for it's built in fan, but I've also got one of those portable fans. Air circulation is useful. I can't say that I've noticeably feel the difference but I would think in my mind, moving air is better temperature distribution as well as reducing water condensation on the walls. I might have to up it to two or three protable fans but will try one first.

[slipperybob]

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Just my two cents, and it's probably not even worth what you paid for it.

=]

Tim

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Well Tim, are you here to educate about CO or you feel 2 cents worth trying to restate some few facts as incorrect to be more correct???? Please step down from the soap box, I feel a flame...

The most simple fact that I know, we breathe in O2, we exhale CO2. My science/biology shool teacher never mention anything about CO. Maybe next time, I'll be sure to restate some facts as common sense. However I'm pretty sure that CO can becomes CO2 without the aid of radicals in the air.

Maybe to that I'll conclude to myself that the biggest fact is the lack of literature as well as education about CO. I'll admit that I don't know much about CO except that it's dangerous nor it has something to do with hemoglobin stuff (which I only think about iron in bloodstream), but I do know it's too much of it that makes it dangerous. Which I simple-mindedly thought CO would also take away O2, which I never did not state nor conclude as a fact in your blood. More of a real problem is in homes than it would be for fish portables, as most fishermen are aware of air ventilation. At home, you've got your stove, your water heater, your furnace, your dryer. You've got paint thinners that has that methyl whatever that your liver breaks down and puts CO into your bloodstream - ask some med peeps about that I don't know for sure how that occurs. Fact that most people who know about installing fire alarms in their homes aren't aware of the dangers of CO, and installing CO detectors in their homes. Yep, I'm one of them, until a few years ago did I get a CO detector. So to say that I paid something like $1.25 to netducate myself, thank you. I wouldn't have made that connection. I was simple-minded thinking combustion of a fuel, consuming oxygen and making CO2...wasn't thinking lack of oxygen making CO. We also know that with lack of oxygen, there wouldn't be a combustion either...common sense. No more CO but maybe the LP or butane will getcha!

Take my $1.25 it's worth it.

[TimR]

You know, I read your post 3 times and I honestly don't know what you are trying to say. I can't tell if you are trying to be a smart@ss or what.

Your first post reads as if the problem with CO is that it will react w/ 02 to form CO2, sink in the stagnant air, people get woozy and go to sleep in the CO2.

That's not the BIG danger.

The BIG danger is what happens to your blood.

Then you say this:

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However I'm pretty sure that CO can becomes CO2 without the aid of radicals in the air.

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I'd really like to see how you propose that happens without either a radical or a precious metal catalyst, because I can't think of a way.

Or:

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Please step down from the soap box, I feel a flame...

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I'm not trying to be on a soapbox. It just an important topic that deserves the correct information. Also, my buddy got CO poisoning last wednesday from his heater/cooker and lack of ventilation. He purchased a big buddy the next day.

Perhaps with a beer in my hand talking to you I could understand what you are saying a little better. I'm in FLake too, I'll pour you one at my house, or hand you one on the lake anytime.

Tim

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Just my two cents, and it's probably not even worth what you paid for it.

=]

Tim

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Well Tim, are you here to educate about CO or you feel 2 cents worth trying to restate some few facts as incorrect to be more correct???? Please step down from the soap box, I feel a flame...

The most simple fact that I know, we breathe in O2, we exhale CO2. My science/biology shool teacher never mention anything about CO. Maybe next time, I'll be sure to restate some facts as common sense. However I'm pretty sure that CO can becomes CO2 without the aid of radicals in the air.

Maybe to that I'll conclude to myself that the biggest fact is the lack of literature as well as education about CO. I'll admit that I don't know much about CO except that it's dangerous nor it has something to do with hemoglobin stuff (which I only think about iron in bloodstream), but I do know it's too much of it that makes it dangerous. Which I simple-mindedly thought CO would also take away O2, which I never did not state nor conclude as a fact in your blood. More of a real problem is in homes than it would be for fish portables, as most fishermen are aware of air ventilation. At home, you've got your stove, your water heater, your furnace, your dryer. You've got paint thinners that has that methyl whatever that your liver breaks down and puts CO into your bloodstream - ask some med peeps about that I don't know for sure how that occurs. Fact that most people who know about installing fire alarms in their homes aren't aware of the dangers of CO, and installing CO detectors in their homes. Yep, I'm one of them, until a few years ago did I get a CO detector. So to say that I paid something like $1.25 to netducate myself, thank you. I wouldn't have made that connection. I was simple-minded thinking combustion of a fuel, consuming oxygen and making CO2...wasn't thinking lack of oxygen making CO. We also know that with lack of oxygen, there wouldn't be a combustion either...common sense. No more CO but maybe the LP or butane will getcha!

Take my $1.25 it's worth it.

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