What is DNR thinking??

[germanshorthairs]

I just want to write my frustrations about the mn dnr. Is there really enough deer for an early anterless hunt??? I think not. I hunt in the park rapids/bemidji area and deer numbers are not like they say they are. In the past I would see multiple deer per day on stand, now I am lucky to see one. Apparently they care more about money than the interests of the hunters. I bet way more than 50% of the current hunters in this area would agree that this hunt is not needed-especially when you can legally shoot five deer in this area anyways. The five deer limit is another joke. It is really exciting to hear that one hunter shot 4 deer and the next hunter did not see a thing(NOT). I think the DNR needs to start listening to the people paying there wages, instead of trying to make more money. Anyways, just frustrated with lots of aspects of the DNR.

[Coach1310]

Do you really think the DNR would jeapordize one of the greatest resources in the State of MN to generate revenue? If you are correct in stating that the herd isn't big enough to handle this hunt, then won't it in turn cost the DNR more $$$ in the long run in research, herd improvement and programs and the possible loss of hunters due to poor success because of a decimated herd??? I guess I have faith that the MN DNR does more than just invent seasons to generate $$$. Just because one hunter or one group of hunters are seeing less deer in their area doesn't mean there are less deer.... maybe I am just a hopefull taxpayer, but I think the DNR does their homework to some extent.

[BRULEDRIFTER]

That's how it goes. When sombody has a bad day hunting/fishing, they turn their blame on to the DNR. For some reason people like to believe the DNR is out to ruin the resources just to make money. That line of thinking makes no sence at all! The biologists in the field collecting data are very passionate about their work. They don't get paid that well, so they have to be to do the job. The state understands that in order to make money, the resources they are working to protect must be in good shape or license sales would drop, therefore, less money made.

All animals change their patterns. Maybe the deer in your area you hunt, are not around anymore because the food isn't their like it was even last year. Maybe there has been an increase of predators in the area keeping the deer hiding and moving differently then they were in previous years.

Maybe you are right, and the numbers in your area are down, but maybe the herd a few miles away is booming.

There are a lot of factors to consider when you manage populations of animals. And its a science, it is impossible to be exact. It's not an easy task to manipulate mother nature. To blow off all of your steam and blame the "evil" DNR may not be the right thing to do in this situation. I fully believe that the guys who are out collecting and compiling the data on deer populations are not sitting back plotting how they can rip off hunters!

[fishgetter]

Yeah what he said

[matthothand]

I just think that an early antlerless season is a good thing because too many hunters refuse to shoot anything without horns. An antlerless only season is good to pick up the slack left behind by buck only hunters. Too bad there's not a way to make it doe only rather than antlerless. The button bucks need to live and taking them kinda defeats the whole premise of herd management/antlerless seasons.

[LABS4ME]

Remember hunting in the 70s and early 80s? Seeing one deer a day was considered a successful day hunting.

I think we have all been spoiled by the over inflated deer herd of the past decade. We want to see 20 deer a day and pick the one we are gonna harvest and leave the rest for someone else to 'control'. The DNR knows (knew) we were only one winter away from a population crash and has been very aggressive in controlling the size of the herd. We don't need to be another WI with their myriad of T-zones and earn-a-bucks and CWD zones etc.

An antlerless only over the counter tag with a buck tag lottery for rifle hunting like ND should be the tact the DNR starts to look into. That will keep the numbers in check.

Good Luck!

Ken

[harvey lee]

I agree Ken. I remember years ago when you recieved one license and hoped you saw 1 deer to shoot. Over the years we have become accustommed to getting many tags and more than one deer. In time this will all change.

This past weekend I caught myself whining about not having shot a deer as in the years past I shot one every time I went out. The deer population id going down some due to all the tags they have given out the last years to reduce the herd.

I guess what I'm saying is we all have enjoyed some very good years deer hunting and sooner or later we will be back to the norm. Spoiled, heck yes I am. I have to remember that I had the chance to hunt some awesome years and that they also could return. I will probably take 5 deer this season and I should not complain as years in the past that was only a dream.

[BRULEDRIFTER]

Well said!

[UdeLakeTom]

In the area I hunt, there isn't any selective harvesting, if you see multiple deer in a day, it is the buck chasing the doe. It is common knowledge in the area, if you want something to eat, you shoot the first one you see. Well maybe not the fawns, but if you get selective, you can go 3 weekends without a shot. There were supposed to be 5 or more per square mile according to the census, but a square mile has one heck of a lot of hiding spaces.

[Gforce]

DNR is not all good with management. In my area they want praire chickens to come back. So what do they do they cut down trees in the wildlifes. Personally i dont give a hoot about praire chickens. I got pheasants to hunt. If praire chickens dont thrive around my area dont try so hard to make them. Everyone deer hunts where im at so plant more trees dont cut them down. I dont know what their thinking. They could do alot better job to make deer thrive instead of praire chickens. They should also encourage predator hunts because thats the worse thing for ducks and pheasants. Back to the orginal post. The dnr does try to manage the deer herd.not hard enough. In my area they are only giving away 15 doe tags but they did give away some so people would still buy into it. The money spent on licenses should stay in your county. Nothing against you northern hunters but the only money given back to the deer hunter is for emergency feeding in the northern part of the state. No money is put back into deer for my area. You think a duck license is like a fourth of the cost for deer and there is 10 times the land for ducks rather then deer. I emailed the dnr about where the money goes that we spend on deer licenses. guess what they didnt email me back. it goes into there wages. The also dont know how to design wildlifes. One by my house they didnt drain it right so it backs water up for 2 miles across 3 different farmers land. They didnt dig the pot holes dip enough either so water doesnt stand where it is suppose to. Of course they didnt plant any trees. My dream job would be to design wildlifes because what i have seen they suck at it. I might be able to do that after my civil engineering degree and surveying degree. funny story time. The dnr came to my house to ask my dad a question. They wanted to run the telephone poles along my dads field instead of across the wildlife by my house. My dad said they have been there as long as i have and there is no need to move them. The dnr said ducks run into them and die. maybe 1 every 10 years thats my guess. but my dad said no because he knows how hard they are to work with. the dnr said well i will just go to the township board. my dad said ok. the dnr came back 2 hours later. dnr said you are the chairman of the township. my dad said yep. dnr so i wont get permission than. my dad nope. the dnr just left. My dad is the nicest guy in the world and reseasonable and if he says they are impossible to work with i believe him. Frustrating is a good word. i just wrote alot of my views and i stick with them. everyone has a different view on the dnr

[BRULEDRIFTER]

It's all a matter of opinion and personal preferences. You would be much happier hunting a non-native species rather then seeing a native species returned to its originaly stomping grounds. The trees they are cutting down, probably were not supposed to be there back when prairie chickens where around, so basically they are restoring native habitat back to the region. For some, this is a great thing, others prefer MANipulated habitat for THEIR own reasons. I'm sure the WMA they messed up on was an error in judgement, but afterall, they are humans like us, mistakes are made and learned from.

It's impossible to please the masses. There will always be others out there w/ differing points of views and adgendas than others.

As far as not managing our deer herds not hard enough. This opinion is WAY off coarse. Do you actually think that every licenses sold to a deer hunter is exclusively paying the salaries of the DNR employees? A small percentage of them are, but all licenses sales are divided up between their respective divisions for everything that division needs to purchase, not just saleries. The Wildlife divisions, put a lot of time and money into monitoring and managing our deer herd. As I previously said, It's a pretty impossible task to control mother nature and play God.

From the way it sounds, your negativity towards the agency has been passed down through the generations. Probably from a bad dicission that affected someone in your family. There will be no way to change your opinions, and you will always have your reasoning to how resources should be managed.

I guess my point is that the DNR is out to help, and not hurt our resources. Its a science, that sometimes takes a few experiments to get right. We should all realize this and do our part to participate in the processes. Attend the open meetings and don't shy away from giving them input. It's too bad your Dad didn't even give the agency a chance to potentially help restore and save some wildlife. Attitudes like this, hurt way more then they help.

[Hammer Handle]

Couldn't have said it better, bruledifter!

Most people don't even realize that pheasants are not native to America. They think the Indians hunted them before us.

[big drift]

Brule is right on every agency has it's (Contact Us Please) and every one also has some great staff. In defense of the DNR not all jobs are done by them directly they are subcontracted. Then you have issues beyond simple like your dad's case. It is not just a township issue but a county, state, federal and in some cases tribal.

Anyone that thinks they can do better then start by talking to them or volunteering. If you want budget info for my agency I would tell ya to go to blazes also. Follow the correct procedures by writing to them and sending it via certified mail to confirm receipt, if nothing happens contact the Auditors office, same deal nothing happens then invoke the Freedom of Information act. I am sure if you do some digging you will find the right person to talk to.

Anyway if folks want to complain target the person not the agency. It is like saying all troopers are (Contact Us Please) I have only one in a whole district that has issues the others are great guys.

My .02

bd

[snapcrackpop]

Quote:

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My dream job would be to design wildlifes because what i have seen they suck at it. I might be able to do that after my civil engineering degree and surveying degree.

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If you can't beat them, join them. Then we can complain about your work.

[Gforce]

I realize they are out to help but sometimes I think there is more things they could do or do things better. I realize everyone makes mistakes and I am not always right. im not saying i have the perfect answers but in my opinion they could do a lot better job in my area of helping the deer herd instead of the praire chickens. I know indians didnt hunt pheasants. But thats whats thriving now so why try to change everything back to the praire. it wont happen. its either farmland or wma where i am at. wmas dont have the short grass or enough native grass that praire chickens live in. pheasants can live in the habitat we have now with no changes and without cutting down trees. that is what makes me mad is cutting down trees to help praire chickens but hurt deer. The praire chicken is native but is our land native. no its not how it was back in the day. pheasants can thrive in what we have now so y change it. And about the telephone poles in the wildlife. The reason my dad didnt let them move the poles from the wildlife to our field was because the poles are not killing animals. sorry to say (Contact Us Please) happens. if a duck hits the wire and dies its part of humans living with nature. the poles would have been moved from along side a slough in the wildlife to a slough along our land. A duck wouldnt try landed in our slough across the road and it the wire over there. same chance in my opinion. i know some people have bad feelings towards the dnr. i still believe they try to help but they soemtimes get on a power trip. There is so many steps you need to go through when working through the dnr. they are not the easiest to work with. Being from a farming family it might not help my opinion. With my dad running the farm he has to deal with them all year round. some of you hunters from the city just see the good they do and dont have to work through them. u come out and hunt on the land during the season and might not make any more contact with them. There is good and bad with everything. the dnr has both good and bad i know. most people dont see the bad. when working with the government you cant take no for an answer. back to the power trip thing. some hunters block a ditch with rocks so they could cross it with there trucks. it backed up water onto some fields upstream. went and talked to the hunters they didnt know what kinda effect it had on so they were very nice and said they will remove them right away. then a dnr official came out there and told them they couldnt. it wasnt natural so it shouldnt be there in the first place but it help the water levels so the dnr told them to leave it. had to go above the dnr and talked to a state representative. he talked to the dnr and two weeks later the dnr sent a letter of apology. the right thing got down so all is good. dnr didnt help in this case. see where im coming from you cant say they always do the right thing. it might not be the organization just some officials. some people dont deal with them all year round so opinions differ. thats what makes some of these posts fun to read lol. send some feedback you have to have thought my funny story was kinda funny in my last post or u have no sence of humor. haha but this is a raging topic to most people but i go with its a love hate relationship.

[Gforce]

snackcrackpop didnt read your post right away. haha i might have to if u have any ideas on how to make them better hit me up. i hope that isnt ur job because i might have hurt your feelings. i would probly be in a private contracting and have them hire my business. just like everything some people wouldnt like my designs but i would lol.

[Hammer Handle]

My family farms and owns a lot of lakeshore. I deal with the DNR every year.

Yes, some things are hard to understand...but they are doing the best they can.

Laws are always changing and one of their main focuses is to protect wetlands. Hard to do when big money and companies are taking them away. And, due to farmers draining fields for farmland. This used to be legal....

I am now adding wetlands to fields that had them before and we drained them. This is not easy to do and the DNR has to inspect each one.

I see nothing wrong with trying to bring back nature to what it was or as close as we can (it will never be what it was). Something has to be done, and now.

[harvey lee]

I dont always agree with what the DNR has done or some of their programs. The DNR needs to follow many laws and try to give every citizen of this state what they all want as far as their agenda.

In no way would I want the job they have to do to keep all sportsman and every citizen happy and yet keep all the wildlife populations at a happy medium for all. if the deer population gets to big then the farmers and insurance companies lobby for change. When its to low and even the poorest of hunters dont get their deer, then its their fault again. They are in a no win situation and will never be able to keep all happy at the same time.

Sure they make mistakes but, who doesnt from time to time. I will say this again, I persoanlly would never want the job to keep all of the citizens of this great state happy at the same time.

Maybe we all need to think about what is good and not always blame the state for everything that we think isnt right in our eyes.

[Eric Wettschreck]

Everyone always talks about "Back in the day" or "I remember when" or "It sure isn't what it used to be."

Now the DNR is attempting to restore native prairie grasses, trees, and wildlife and they get bombarded by expert backyard biologists who think they are doing it all wrong. Prairie chickens were here first. Pheasants were introduced. So were carp, and zebra mussles, and a great number of other non native species.

When I was but a teenaged lad I wanted to work with the DNR. Now I'm glad I don't. A lot of those guys are working their butts off for the very people who baste them with "You suck at it" statements. I firmly believe they are doing the best they can with what they have. If anyone has ideas to better the department, I'll bet ya a box of beer they will be more than willing to listen. As long as the ideas are reasonable, will work, will work within the budget, and will show improvement. Good luck.

[smnduck]

The Mn. DNR is the most critized and under funded state agency yet gets Zero credit from anyone. A lot of the recent decisions are done under the idea of lets try something new and see if it works with out wrecking what we have. If it upsets a few people it's the worst idea in the world and a few make a big stink about it. If the idea works well the DNR gets little if any credit for a job well done. Remeber that the biologist's more than likely know more than we ever will yet have to make it work with a million other wishes. In a nutshell they do a great job considering the budget and political handcuffs that they have.

[Hammer Handle]

And, don't forget the people that say "The DNR said "no", but I am going to do it anyway!" and get by with it.

Then they think the DNR is full of (Contact Us Please).

Or, if they get caught and fined "They don't know what they are doing. I know what is best for my land!"

[swedishpimple]

In Bemidji we only have one kind of cougar and it is not the kind you boys want to run into at night.

3 years ago I was mowing the trails at our hunting camp 30 miles north of Bemidji and about 4 miles East of the Red Lake. A Mountain Lion crossed infront of me on my third pass down the trail. This is important because of the scale. When a big cat walks out of tall CRP grass into short mowed grass there is no mistaking it.

I did not seem to be scared of me at all. Just kept on its way heading North. There is a lot of wild county in the Saum, Washkish and Ponemah areas.

I am 100% positive it was a mountain lion. I have never seen a pintail in MN or a picture that I know proves it is MN and not the Dakotas....so...should I say no pintails are in MN. I have my trail cam pointed at the sky, but it only catches leaves falling. There is no way pintails can be in MN!!!!

[Powerstroke]

oops, I think he was looking for the cougar thread....

I think its very sad that so many people find it acceptable and necessary to blast the DNR or other state agencies when something effects them negatively. The NIMBY (Not In My BackYard) attitude is too rampant. Its impossible to please all the people all the time. Nobody ever writes an essay on how great the DNR is when they catch a limit of walleyes or when they shoot 2 deer or when they get a limit of pheasants. They pat themselves on the back because they think they got them on their own and the animals should be there anyway.

One of the huge misconceptions about deer populations is that deer should be everywhere for everyone. If Jim hunts his 80acres and sees 16 deer one morning and is getting damage to crops and plants, he'll call it in. Paul next door got a change at a couple of them and shoots one. He's happy and doesn't call the DNR to share that. Then there's Phil and he's got 160 acres on the otherside of Paul and he hasn't seen or shot a deer in 2years. I'm not even gonna generalize why cause we all know someone like this and they've got many reasons.

When the DNR calculates population models for deer they do it by Deer per square mile. A square mile is 640 acres or one section. The average goal is somewhere around 20 deer/sq mile. SO if we do the math that means 10 deer for 320 acres, 5 deer in 160 acres, 2.5 deer per 80 acres and just 1.25 deer in a 40 acre chunk.

Deer were never told this so they usually stay in herds (females and immature deer) and deer have an average home range of 1-3miles. Bucks can range 5 miles during the rut.

If one property has a great food source or bedding source and maybe its great habitat all together, then thats where the deer will be.

So, even if there really are 20-30 per square mile, if they love an area, they will stay there. Someone who lives a 1/2 miles away can see no deer and complain that the DNR isn't managing the numbers. Deer don't know they are supposed to spread out so hunters can have a chance.

I'm bowhunting a chunk of land that has 8 acres. The DNR does nothing to manage this area (private land) and neither does the homeowner. Its just great habitat. I shot 2 deer there this year and have seen more than 10 more. Should the DNR do something to reduce the herd, probably, should they listen to the guy down the road who doesn't see anything, of course. But they have to look at the big picture and manage everything in between.

The best way to offer your criticm without ranting online where it does no good, is to call your local wildlife managers or talk to the soil and water district or hang out with the fisheries managers. Show up at the imput meetings and participate in surveys. Thats the only way.

(Names may have been altered to protect the identities of certain individuals)

[BRULEDRIFTER]

I once saw a cartoon from a newspaper that had a guy sitting behind a counter w/ his feet kicked up on the counter, arms behind his head, looking out into an empty lobby. The sign above his booth read, Compliments. The caption on the bottom read, The easiest job in government! Gotta love it cause its so true!

[camdu7]

Hey Gforce,

Do you think that cutting down the trees and moving the poles from near the WMA would help nesting birds like ducks and pheasents by reducing the roosting areas for raptors like the red tail hawks? I guess just maybe the biologist know what they are doing...