Are You As Frustrated As I Am?

[JDM]

I hunt deer in 219. For the last several years, I have purchased the all season license so I could hunt the muzzleloader season. I liked the idea that I could shoot multiple deer with that license and could still save a tag for December if that is what I wanted to do. Not any more. Basically, my area was put into the lottery zone and now I get one deer for all seasons combined. As a result, I did not give the DNR my $75 and went with the $27 option. I know other guys whom I hunt with that feel the same way. I seriously question how they are managing the deer herd (or any other resource for that matter). Our area has 800 doe permits and I can tell you that there is not shortage of deer in this area. I don't anticipate a problem filling one tag in nine days. I guess I will just have to pheasant hunt instead of using my muzzleloader this year. OK - I have said my peace.

[luckey]

JDM

You happen to be one of the ones the DNR directed this to.

You were not doing anything wrong, it was just a hole that allowed too many does to be taken is some area.

All-Season Deer License Changes

In 2000, the Minnesota Legislature created the all-season license, which allows residents to hunt the archery, firearm, and muzzleloader seasons. The license also allows for multiple deer to be taken throughout those seasons.

While the license is growing in popularity and offers enormous flexibility for Minnesota hunters, there have been some drawbacks. Primarily, while deer populations throughout much of Minnesota are at historic highs, there are areas of the state where deer populations are declining despite low numbers of either-sex permits. Over the last few years, lottery deer areas have been experiencing

increasing antlerless harvest despite reductions in either-sex permits.

Why? Previously, the statewide muzzleloader season has been either-sex and all-season hunters could take an antlerless deer without applying in the lottery. This provision has resulted in increased antlerless harvest and in many

areas more antlerless deer are now being taken by all-season hunters during the muzzleloader season than by firearm hunters during their season. In some areas, too many does are being taken by all-season muzzleloader hunters. Also, all-season hunters were allowed to take up to 3 deer in lottery areas while other hunters were limited to only one. Because of the increasing harvest, the

end result is DNR has the choice of adopting a bucks only regulation, which restricts everyone (including youth) or regulating the number and type of deer all-season license holders can take. Rather than force all hunters to take bucks (which has negative affects on both youth recruitment and buck harvest rates), DNR has decided to regulate the number and type of deer all-season hunters can take. Consequently, there are two regulation changes that will affect allseason deer hunters (license code 219) in 2007. They are:

1. Bag Limits – All-season hunters will have the same bag limit regulations

as all other deer hunters. The total bag limits are lottery areas – 1,

managed areas – 2, intensive areas – 5. These bag limits are per year, not per

season. Functionally, if an all-season hunter takes a deer in the archery season

in a lottery area, they cannot take another deer in any lottery areas for the rest

of the year.

For Your Infor mation

2007 Minnesota Hunting Regulations

60

[Powerstroke]

I've addressed this in the several other posts relating to this. You may see plenty of deer and have no difficulty shooting one, but many other people through whatever circumstances have seen fewer deer and have poor luck. When the DNR does surveys of hunters and talk to people and get second hand information from people working in the fields, they almost always here "I want more deer". The reason is the people who kill a deer every year have no reason to go and complain.

So now the DNR is taking measures to manipulate the populations in ways to help reach their goals for the populations and to satisfy the hunters.

I liken it to adding slot limits on fish. You can't develop more trophy fish if you allow people to take out the egg layers. You can't increase their populations either. SO we place slot limits and reduce the harvest. Some people complain because it affects what "they" bring home. Its hard to please all the people all the time.

When farmers and others in the area complain to the DNR that the deer numbers are too high and causeing damage or the county says there are too many car-deer accidents tehn they will increase harvest. Since we can't regulate the deer's reproduction levels it will always be a bit of a roller coaster.

If you're interested in seeing what the DNR has chosen as goals for your area and why, they havea a great little presentations their HSOforum. It may answer some questions for you.

[96trigger]

JDM, I understand why they did what they did to the muzzleloader season. However, I don't always understand some of their thinking.

My area, 342 has now been downgraded to a management area from an intensive harvest area. That really is not a big deal to me, even though I have seen more deer this year than any other year, I'm OK with it. However, what I am not OK with is the fact that during the 3A season, zone 342 issuing an antlerless lottery of 250 permits. If the deer population has dropped, and we are no longer in an intensive harvest, why issue the antlerless permits for the buck season? Just something I've been questioning since seeing the new designations. It doesn't make any sense to me. If I want to hunt Archery and Firearm, I have to very picky and really can't stick a doe with the bow because if I do, and eventually stick a nice buck with a bow, I'd be done. Not that that would be a bad thing. I just liked being able to take a deer with my bow and not worry about affecting my shotgun season. I don't want to sound like I'm complaining, really its not that big of a deal. But it does make me want to start going during the buck season 3B, like everyone else.

[BLACKJACK]

JDM, I feel your pain. I'm not as psyched about the early season this year because if I shoot an early doe, I'm done, I won't be able to hunt the rut in early Nov. Consequently I don't plan on bow hunting as much early on. I've always resisted my wifes plea to do some fall camping, now this year I said ok to camping on Sept. 22-23. Then after that I'll probably hit the ducks harder and maybe even do some fall fishing!! That should get me to pheasant season and then life is good again!! I'll get out a few early bow hunts but it won't be like in the past, 3-4 nights a week.

[BLACKJACK]

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, I have to very picky and really can't stick a doe with the bow because if I do, and eventually stick a nice buck with a bow, I'd be done.

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At least you can shoot two, if you were in a lottery zone like I am, you'd only be able to shoot one!!!!

[JDM]

Exactly my point. I don't bow hunt and I probably hunt the muzzleloader season one to three days per year. The only time the DNR seems to pay attention is when it affects them financially. The $48 they didn't get from me may be insignificant, buy it is about all I can do to "get my point across."

Between this and what they did at Mille Lacs this year, they have really altered my outdoor behavior and I am not very happy about it.

I really think that when it comes to management of this state's resources, they are just throwing darts and seeing what will stick. My friends that hunt up north can take multiple dear and in the transition zone where I am, which has a very healthy deer population, they make it a lottery. I wonder if they even spent any time in the area before they made that decision?

[bigbucks]

I'm a little frustrated that they dropped my main/home area from intensive to managed, but not near as frustrated as I'd have been if they'd dropped it to lottery. I too agree that it seems drastic to go from intensive to lottery, especially when in close proximity to where we are they took two side by side intensive areas, one dropped to lottery, the other added the early doe season. If deer could read I bet there would be a ton of does hopping South of Hwy 27...

It will definitely affect my early bow season. I slug hunt in the area now dropped to managed too. In the past it's been my primary bow area, now the intensive one definitely will be where I head for opener. It's kind of wierd breaking that tradition, but exciting too. In the past I've done very few morning hunts in that area, mostly weeknights after work.

[chucker34]

Agreed. Talk to a guy in a lottery area and he'd wish it could be managed! I was behind a guy at the license counter today who asked for an all-season license and the woman asked him if he knew he was in a lottery area this year. "Oh, so I need to apply for a doe permit." Then the lady said "nope, the deadline for those was yesterday." Then he said "Guess I'll have to get one with the muzzleloader." The she spoiled his whole parade by explaining one deer total and he bought his two day gun season license and is hoping for a buck, any buck.

[96trigger]

Just to be clear, I am not arguing the drop from intensive to management, I have to think the DNR is doing their research on the numbers. I just don't like the idea of the antlerless lottery during the buck season. We also can't forget about all the youth being able to take any sex deer during either or both seasons. I'm not disappointed in being able to take two deer, I'm thankful, I hunted that way for years. I'll just have to go back to my "bucks only for bow hunting mentality." wish I never bought a management tag, If I shoot a buck during archery I won't be able to use it. I think that this has been discussed before, but I can use that management tag in another management area, like 343, right?

[BLACKJACK]

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I just don't like the idea of the antlerless lottery during the buck season.

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96, I lived and hunted down in your area a few years back and I was amazed at the 'the only real deer hunter is a buck hunter' attitude. For that reason I think shooting does during both the 3A and 3B season is good, it gets all the hunters to realize the does are deer too, and need to be hunted. Having a strictly buck season just creates hunters that are buck only hunters.

[96trigger]

That attitude still exists. I will say that with the lottery during the 3A season, we have seen more quality bucks during 3B. Probably due to the fact that 3B hunters are shooting does right away and leaving the woods. It has its advantages. I was just getting used to be able to shoot a doe with a management tag, still get a big buck with it, and hunt with my family during the firearm season. I'm the only one in the family that bow hunts, but I am addicted to it. I'll just pass on the does, I did it for years before we were intensive harvest, its just nice to tag a doe, it takes the edge off a little. I also remember when we had lottery and were lucky to get a doe permit. I don't want to complain, the DNR is doing their job, but once you get a privilege, it sucks to have it taken away.

[USPENAMC]

cant you say bowhunt a lottery area shoot your one buck and then go to intensive harvest or management area during the rifle season and shoot does?

can you kill a buck in a lottery area during bow season and then go to an intensive or managed area and take more does?

[Bluegill1510]

It depends USPEN on what zones these guys hunt for gun season and what type of license they have. If a guy purchases an all seasons license like me then "yes" I could could shoot a deer buck or doe with my BOW during the bow season in a lottery area such as section area 417 but then I would be done for that certain section, but I could go hunt other lottery area such as 119 or 416 with my BOW and shoot one deer a piece in each of those areas. But once I do shot a deer buck or doe with my bow in those pertaining lottery areas I can NOT muzzleload or gun hunt those areas because I took my one deer for that area. But if its a management section area I can shoot up to 2 and in intensive I can shoot up to 4. But with my all seasons license I already get 3 tags, one either sex and 2 antlerless ones, so it all depends on how meat hungry I am. That is why I get the all seasons because I don't just hunt in one area like many guys on here do, I already know I will be hunting three different areas of the state and possibly four, and some of the places I will be hunting are in lottery but majority of the time I will be in intensive or a management area. So I am not to worried, plus I haven't gotten into muzzleloading, because that usually conflicts with early ice fishing with me so I'd rather ice fish than muzzleload.

But I think what your asking is if a guy who bow hunts shoots his buck with the bow in a lottery area, he is done with that certain "section" area, meaning he cant shotgun/rifle or muzzleload or even bow hunt that area. But from my understanding yes he can go to other intensive and management areas for gun or muzzleload season grant it that he has the proper license and is in the proper zone, such as Zone 1,2, 3A, 3B, 4A, 4B. For example you can't go up north and hunt in an intensive harvest area in Zone 1 with a Zone 4A gun license, you need the the Zone 1 license to do that. But that person with the 4A license can hunt intensive and management areas in Zone 4 if they do choose too. I hope that kinda makes sense and helps you out because now I am confused on it all but basically you just need to worry about yourself in the areas in which you plan to hunt, and the type of hunting you want to do. Plus if it doesn't work out that you cant gun hunt there is always fishing, ever think how empty the lakes are on opening gun season, prolly best time to do some fishing in my opinion!

[adaylate]

You are allowed only 1 deer in a lottery area.You cant keep going to different lottery areas to harvest deer.

[Jameson]

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You are allowed only 1 deer in a lottery area.You cant keep going to different lottery areas to harvest deer.

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and there is no area 119.

[Bluegill1510]

Im sorry Jameson I meant permit area 116, not 119 I got the numbers mixed up. So my mistake there.

Now I am confused Adaylate, I have purchased the all seasons license, and I understand if I hunt in a lottery area I only get to shoot one deer per season. But I bow hunt and so now this is where I get confused if I plan on bow hunting in permit area 116 which is a lottery I can harvest a doe or buck without having to apply for a doe permit, because those only effect muzzleload and gun season. Then if I wanted I assume I could hunt in permit area 417 where I could hunt relatives land, and 417 is another lottery area, and I could harvest either a buck or doe if I haven't taken a buck yet and still be legal because I am in a whole different area and zone for that matter. Does that sound ok or am I wrong?

From my knowledge and how I interpet the rules for all seasons license is the applying for doe permits in lottery areas is only for gun and muzzleload seasons, and not for bow. So basically when I bow hunt I can hunt statewide anywhere in the state that I want and including harvesting a deer in one lottery permit area, and then going to another lottery permit area and harvesting another deer all with my bow, and be legal. Unless its like Adaylate stated that once I shoot a deer in a lottery permit area I can't shoot one in any other lottery permit area in the state with either a bow, gun, or muzzleloader. Now I am confused about this whole license ordeal, can anyone clarify or help out so I understand, because I thought I did but now I am unsure???

[lcornice]

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Im sorry Jameson I meant permit area 116, not 119 I got the numbers mixed up. So my mistake there.

Now I am confused Adaylate, I have purchased the all seasons license, and I understand if I hunt in a lottery area I only get to shoot one deer per season. But I bow hunt and so now this is where I get confused if I plan on bow hunting in permit area 116 which is a lottery I can harvest a doe or buck without having to apply for a doe permit, because those only effect muzzleload and gun season. Then if I wanted I assume I could hunt in permit area 417 where I could hunt relatives land, and 417 is another lottery area, and I could harvest either a buck or doe if I haven't taken a buck yet and still be legal because I am in a whole different area and zone for that matter. Does that sound ok or am I wrong?

From my knowledge and how I interpet the rules for all seasons license is the applying for doe permits in lottery areas is only for gun and muzzleload seasons, and not for bow. So basically when I bow hunt I can hunt statewide anywhere in the state that I want and including harvesting a deer in one lottery permit area, and then going to another lottery permit area and harvesting another deer all with my bow, and be legal. Unless its like Adaylate stated that once I shoot a deer in a lottery permit area I can't shoot one in any other lottery permit area in the state with either a bow, gun, or muzzleloader. Now I am confused about this whole license ordeal, can anyone clarify or help out so I understand, because I thought I did but now I am unsure???

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Once you shoot a deer in a lottery area, you are done in all lottery areas. The intent of the bag limit change was to limit harvest in lottery areas, not redistribute it to other areas of the state. On the antlerless without applying deal, bowhunters got a pass because they kill proportionately fewer deer as compared to gun hunters. It would have been much easier and simpler to explain if everyone had to apply but it wouldn't have been fair. So, the price of opportunity is once again confusion.

[adaylate]

1 deer in lottery areas. 2 deer in managed areas. 5 deer in intensive areas.No exceptions.Straight from the dnr.

[lcornice]

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1 deer in lottery areas. 2 deer in managed areas. 5 deer in intensive areas.No exceptions.Straight from the dnr.

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That's how I read it.

[Jameson]

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... if everyone had to apply but it wouldn't have been fair. So, the price of opportunity is once again confusion.

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Could someone please explain to me how not having archers apply for doe tags is "fair." Last time I checked archers had THREE AND HALF MONTHS of season to even out fairness.

[WaitForIt]

Well, compare the success rates of archers to firearms hunters. That may be part of that.

Also consider how few deer archers take relative to the total. Archers have a much smaller impact (think big picture as the DNR does).