2 3/4 vrs 3 inch shells??

[BLACKJACK]

This sounds like a dumb question but what really is the difference between a 2 3/4 and 3 inch shell, besides more pellets and powder in the three inch shell?? Will a three inch shell outperform a 2 3/4 shell? Will a 3 inch shell reach out farther than a 2 3/4 inch shell??

Related question, is a 3 inch 20 gauge shell comparable to a 2 3/4 inch 12 gauge shell (same shot size in both)?

I've shot a lot of ducks and pheasants with 2 3/4 inch number two steel but my brother shoots all 3 inch, I say its overkill, but now toward the end of pheasant season, maybe with the longer shots I should use some 3 inch? Plus in my 20 gauge, should I just shoot all 3 inch?

[gspman]

If we are talking lead or other softer non-toxics...

The only difference is in how hard the gun kicks.

Will a three inch shell outperform a 2 3/4 shell? No. And definitely no at the ranges most people SHOULD be shooting at.

Will a 3 inch shell reach out farther than a 2 3/4 inch shell? No. Again at the ranges most people should be shooting at, definitely no.

In my humble opinion 95% of the hunters out there have no business shooting at a pheasant (or any other bird for that matter) that is more than 40 yds away. At 40 yds and in the 2 3/4" shell will give you everything you need and then some.

If we are talking steel or other harder non-toxics...

I'll defer to others.

[Mr Special]

Personally I think most 3" shells are way overkill. My buds like to use the Remi ExpressMags 3" #6 1 7/8oz for late season Pheasants. They say it will reach out further, plus more dense pattern.. I know the shell will, but know for a fact, I darn near cut a bird n half at 20yrds with IC choke. Never used them again. I'll stick 2 3/4" plus they're cheaper. Can't beat that

Just my 0.02 cents.

[charliepete2]

The the 3" shell has it's place in waterfowling, but for upland game it's overkill. Any more than 1 3/8's oz of lead being thrown at a pheasant is doing nothing more than ruining them for the table....dead is dead.

[TommyJ33]

Its all about chokes. With the right choke it should give you a better (denser) pattern than the 2 3/4. You'll have to experiment with shot load sizes and buffers per choke. but you can get some amazing results with steel 3-inch. I know it is much easier to get pattern performance of a 3 inch than the 3 1/2 inch shells.

But I tend to agree. it is hard to beat 2 3/4 lead (5 shot for late season Roos.

[mwal]

Here is the truth about lead and 3 inch shells. 3 inch shell were invented to maximize the payload for ground swatting sitting ducks in the market hunting days. More bb's more dead ducks. Most 3 inch lead shells are actually slower than a 2 3/4 shell so no they actually don't have the knockdown power of the 2 3/4. The large payloads of the 3 inch do not pattern well due to shot stringing. On paper or a non moving target you can't see shot stringing but it happens. You are much better off sticking to a faster 2 3/4 shell and keep your shots to reasonable ranges. Many of the long 3 inch shots are pure luck of the golden bb. Now with steel there are advantages to 3 or 3 1/2 shells.

Mwal

[love to hunt]

The only time I can see that a 3" is warrented is in waterfowl or turkey blinds.

I don't waterfowl hunt so I can't make a good arguement for it but I will saw that Winchester 3" heavy turkey load is by far superior for longer shots. There is more powder and shot in those shells then any 2 3/4" on the market. I have taken birds out to 40 yards with out issue.

IMHO

[BLACKJACK]

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Now with steel there are advantages to 3 or 3 1/2 shells.

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So lets talk about steel 2 3/4 vrs steel 3 inch (since thats all I shoot), will 3 inch steel shells outperform 2 3/4 steel?

[mwal]

With steel you have larger pellets therfore with the large casing you can get a few more in there but more importantly you have room to increase the powder and increase the speed of the shot. Steel patterns tighter than lead but weighs less so it must be pushed faster to increase its ft lbs of energy per pellet. The larger casings allow an increase of payload and speed with steel although speed is more important than payload. I use Kent 3 inch fasteel with good results in my M-1 20 GA. I generally use #2 for phesants.

Mwal

[mwal]

In regards to your question is the 20ga the same as the 12ga. A pellet launched from a .410 at 1500 fps is the same as a pellet launched from 10 ga at 1500fps. The difference is pattern density due to the 10 ga having more pellets therefore increasing the distance of shot that can be taken. So if you are shooting a 20ga 1 1/8 #2 steel at 1500fps it would be the same as the 12 with the same payload. The only difference maybe that the larger diameter bore of the 12 may pattern better. But that is questionable.

Mwal

[Rost]

There is a combination of factors to consider with this question. A longer shell= more BB's which will only improve your shot string. It does not widen your pattern. I think the oz shot you shoot is the most important factor.

Assuming both guns are choked the same. A 3 inch shell with 1 oz 3/8 shot will likely outperform a 3.5 inch shell shooting 1 oz 1/8 shot.

Also, people get hung up on what the load speed is and don't pay enough attention to the weight of the BB's. I'd rather shoot a heavier load at 1300 fps, than a lighter load at 1550 fps.

[Tippman]

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The large payloads of the 3 inch do not pattern well due to shot stringing. On paper or a non moving target you can't see shot stringing but it happens.

Mwal

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I agree with most of what is being said but wouldn't a longer shot string increase your odds of taking a bird especially if you were just out in font of it, you would have more room for error. This assuming enery/velocity is the same.

[Eric Wettschreck]

I have honestly not seen a difference in how many birds I drop with the different size shells, with the exception of honkers.

Therefore, I use 2 3/4 cuz I'm a tightwad.

[mwal]

Tipman,

Yes shot stringing would increase the chance of a hit.But the pellets are actuall spread out more. I can't remeber the actual numbers but for example 1 oz load with a shot string of 3 ft and a 1 oz with a shot string of 10 ft. Same number of pellets and velocity but pattern would be very thin as the same number of pellets are stretched out in a longer space. So yes your aiming margin is greater but your pattern is thinner causing cripples and misses. In compettiton sporting clays they keep going down in shot charge to get a shorter shot string and better clay breakage due to the pellets all ariving at the same time. 1 1/8 used to be standard load now 1oz and 7/8 are common due to a better pattern resulting from shorter shot string.

If you search the internet you can find alot of interesting information on shotgun ballistics. As a kid 3 inch meant more power longer shots etc then I got into reloading and ended up 2 3/4 shells lighter faster buffered loads. Hunting results improved.

Mwal

[BobT]

Here's how I look at it. A longer casing does not translate into more power. Actually, in most cases it's probably the opposite. Longer casing provides more room for shot and thus, there are likely more pellets in the shot pattern. In order to obtain adequate muzzle velocity with the heavier load (more pellets = heavier load) powder charge needs to be increased. Even so, the same gun is rated for a specific charge and to exceed that may invite danger. So, the shot itself probably doesn't have an increased muzzle velocity and quite often it is actually decreased. The advantage to having more shot is that you have a fuller shot pattern and therefore may improve your odds slightly. But as mentioned, in most cases we are probably taking shots from too great a distance and the extra shot only improves the odds of wounding your prey.

Learn to take good shots within range and use the 2-3/4" shotshells is the better choice.

Bob

[troutmaster]

So how do the 2 3/4 and 3 inch shells compare when slug hunting for deer?

[BLACKJACK]

So it seems like the general consensus is that 3 inch doesn't gain you anything over 2 3/4 shotgun shells, even in steel. How about for a 20 gauge, is the same true?

Thanks for the advice guys! Going shopping this weekend and hope to pick up a few end of the season shells. I also want to start shooting my Remington 1100 20 gauge more, I bought it 8-10 years ago, couldn't hit dump with it, and haven't used it much since. Since then, I've bought and have had great luck shooting my Remington 1187 12 gauge, its a killing machine. So my thought is I'm going to match the choke (modified) and shells (2 shot steel) to what I shoot thru the 1187 and try to shoot the lighter 1100 more next year.

[lawdog]

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So how do the 2 3/4 and 3 inch shells compare when slug hunting for deer?

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You'd have to check in your own gun, but typically a 3" slug is not as accurate in most cases and any percieved advantage in power is certainly not worth ANY loss in accuracy!

[gspman]

Except for certain circumstances, a longer shot string does not increase the chances of a hit. In most cases it actually decreases it. It actually reduces your effective pattern. You generally want a short, dense shot string. Not a long sparse shot string. A long shot string will have gaps in it in which a clay target (or a real bird) can fly through. This is especially true with larger shot.

[Cooter]

Great topic to discuss! My personal shotgunning is all turkey, I have no clue about waterfowl/upland whatsoever. However, if those loads are similar to turkey loads, I would say off course there is an advantage to a 3" or 3.5" over a 2.75". I would think the easiest way would be to look at the oz of shot(same size) and then fps. For example, some of Rems turkey loads in any size(4,5,6) have the same vel(fps) for 3" and 2.75" , the only diff is the 3" has more shot. So that obviously is an advantage. Again, I don't know how waterfowl/upland loads in 3" vs 2.75" compare, but if similar to SOME turkey loads, sure I'd say the 3" has an advantage. I've shot turkeys with the 3.5" cannon loads and they are pure death - I guess unless the patterns or fps are better with a 2.75" shell, it seems clear the 3" does indeed is superior. Of course you can add in cost and shoulder punishment. Just my .02, again great topic and I hope to hear more.

[Craig_S]

I'll speak from my experience. No fancy charts or anything like that. And frame the experience as: A member of the first place trap team - North Beltrami sportsman's Club this year , And 25 years of waterfowl hunting - killing obscene numbers of ducks until I wizened up in my mid life years.

For me, lead loads for trap and upland work just fine in 2 3/4", I see no reason for 3".

Steel is a different kettle of tea all together. I grew up shooting the very first steel loads on Chesapeake bay both east and west shores, Virginia, and Maryland. The only load available was 2 3/4" 4's and were grossly underpowered. I was sickened on many occasions by blasting feathers out of birds in the 30 yard range with super low kill rates. If things had stayed the same, I'd probably given up duck hunting all together. The load evolved over about a five year period to larger shot and faster speeds which got my reluctant approval in 2 3/4. Then 3" became available and the difference was startling. Kill rates went through the roof and today, I actually prefer killing ducks at reasonable ranges with #1 or #3, 3 inch steel over my old #5 2 3/4 inch hand loads.

The shot string is certainly longer. And is certainly better at killing unless you are spot on every shot. Shotgunning is best explained as "squirting shot like water out of a hose". Think about that. Head on or going away, shot string length doesn't mean a hill of beans. But on crossing shots, more shot in a longer string covers a much longer swath. When shooting cripples on the water, watch the shot string. It's very educational. And applies to trap and upland as well, just a shorter string.

I admit, I haven't stuck anything other than 3" steel in my duck guns for 6 or 7 years. And wouldn't. I have 3 1/2" capability, but only use it for cripple kills and longer honker shots. Usually in BB or larger.

Maybe 2 3/4" steel shells have evolved more than I think. But I remember so vividly the dramatic difference when 3" first came on the market, I'm sticking with it.

Speed is another story. And I stick to the 1250 FPS zone because that's where my instinctive lead is dialed in at. In fact, when picking shells, the first thing I look at is the speed. Bouncing back and forth between fast and slow loads is going to seriously screw up your instinctive shooting. And unless you're shooting point and shoot, both eyes wide open, with consistent speeds, you're going to have a little less in your bag. Whatever you choose, practice practice, practice!

Craig

[gspman]

We could beat the shot string thing into the ground. It's a fun topic with opinions landing on both sides. Those that think a long shot string is good are likely thinking of a shot string that most of the experts would consider average or short in length. Do a google search on "shot string" and read the articles that come up. When it comes to shot string the laws of physics and probability are in play. A long shot string is not something that is desireable. Virtually every article supports this statement. People like Bob Brister, John Brindle, Bruce Buck, Tom Roster, and others who have forgot more about shotgun ballistics than any of us on this board will ever care to learn support this. The only place where long strings are useful is on 20 yd skeet crossers. This is because there are so many #9 pellets in the shot cloud.

When you are shooting large shot at birds you want a short shot string or your effective pattern will be so sparse that you will wound birds or even have them fly right through the pattern untouched. Once I shot at a wood duck that I jumped in a ditch. It was about 2 feet of the water when I shot. The water splashed all around that bird. I had that bird dead to rights and it flew off untouched because the patten wasn't dense enough. That bird was not moving that fast. Now think about a duck flying at 40 mph at 40 yds out. With a 10 ft shot string and large shot your effective pattern is about 8"-10" in diameter with the densest part of the shot cloud up front. That duck will fly through only a part of that 10 foot shot string and you better hope it's the dense front part or you'll have a wounded bird or an untouched bird. Maybe only 4 feet of that shot string will be flown through. The other 6 feet will not even have the opportunity to hit the bird. That's wasted shot that could be put to good use up front if the shot string was shorter. You'd be much better off with a 6 foot shot string that will have many more pellets up front with a wider and denser effective pattern that gives you more room for error. With the 10 foot shot string the last 6 feet will be sparse and traveling slower so you'll likely only wound the bird instead of kill it.