Deer population

[Wade Joseph]

What affects deer population the most in your opinion?

1) Year to year breeding success

2) Car Kills

3) Wolves

4) Coyotes

5) Hunters

[Nova]

If we only have those 5 to choose from I would say hunters. I think breeding success is quite high usually with a second and even third heat of the unbread does. Yotes don't take that many healthy deer and wolves are primarily in the northern part of the state. If you were talking a northern zone I would say wolves do plenty of damage, but there population throughout the state is low. The two things not on the list that I think most affect deer population are severity of winter and feed, with severity of winter being the top choice.

[Borch]

#6 Weather

[Black_Bay]

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#6 Weather

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Weather is number one in any area. Hunters, coyotes, wolves, and car kills all combined can't compete with a severe winter as far as the number of deer killed.

[Gforce]

I would say weather too. I think it controls how many fawns the does will have in the spring. Coyotes are becoming a big problem too but the dnr wont recognize them as killing to many deer. They are smart and getting smarter. They started to hunt in packs down on a lake i have a cabin on. They chaise the deer out onto the ice and then attacked. You can believe it or not but its true. And hunters also wound deer that die and i dont know if they consider that when they take harvest counts. Thats more than one but thats what i think.

[Beeber]

In MN and especially northern MN, Winter Weather is the most important factor affecting the deer population year on year. Nothing else comes close. If we have a heavy snow year the wolves eat pretty well. If we have a light snow year with moderate temps the survival rate is pretty high.

[deerhuntr8]

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#6 Weather

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Yup!

[harvey lee]

Winter storms and a over population of deer for the amount of food in the area.Sad deal to watch a deer starve to death.

A few years ago in North Dakota my father would watch deer try to get to and cross the road.Some fell on the road and died.They didnt go to waste as the eagles and coyotes would clean them up.

He started to and continued to feed them hay by the road ditch for the rest of the winter and they didnt bed far away.

[BobT]

I would agree that weather would rank very high. With overpopulation comes starvation and disease and this situation I would believe would compete well with weather. As starvation and disease become prominant, wolves will do well. When given a choice, the wolf will take a sick or weak animal before a healthy one any day.

I wonder, if timberwolves fed exclusively on deer, how many deer on average per wolf would be taken in a given year to sustain the current population? My guess is that it wouldn't surpass the number of deer taken by hunters. In fact, I bet it doesn't even come close. We probably kill more on our highways. Sure seems to be a wolf-mania here lately. I for one, can't jump on that wagon.

I would say that in a given year weather has by far the largest impact because by its affects, many other causes increase such as starvation, disease, predation, etc.

Bob

[sachem longrifle]

You will hear hunters complain that they don't see any deer but alot of wolf tracks in their hunting area and therefore they conclude the wolves are killing off the deer. That presumption is false. I have seen where a pack will reside in an area for a while and you will see no deer or sign. Then the wolves leave and a few days later the deer are sighted and there is an increase in sign. The deer react to two legged predators the same way they react to 4 legged ones. Go deep and hide.

[Swill]

6. Bad DNR whitetail management.

MN needs a change in direction at the state level to responsible manage deer in MN. Everyone has been voting for weather...

Yes, weather is a major factor in deer populations, but who can control the weather?

We need to focus on the sole guardian of our deer in MN? The DNR. The DNR can affect hunting regulations, seasons, timber harvesting practices, open and closed WMA's, harvest limits, and overpopulation controls.

Just take a moment at look at the MN DNR web site and it will be clear there is no state wide plan, no local zone plans, and no marketing effort to involve landowners and concern citizen.

Below is a copied list of the public input section on the MN DNR web site? Notice a problem? How about quality deer management?

http://www.dnr.state.mn.us/input/mgmtplans/index.html

Management & project plans/proposals

Con-Con lands

Grouse long-term plan

Lake Superior Fisheries Management Plan

Minnesota Duck Plan

Minnesota's Comprehensive Wildlife Conservation Strategy

Off-highway vehicle

Snowmobile trails

State parks

State trails

State trail development & management plans

Subsection forest resource management planning

Deer population control is not rocket science. If anything, the MN DNR would do a lot of good spending less time selecting wallass plates and more time trying to find ways to involve, educate, and possibly even learn something from all the passionate MN deer hunters who spend almost the whole year planting food plots, gathering trail cam photos,scouting, and yes sitting in tree stands all day...

[BobT]

So what "bad" management practices do you see? The deer herd is in the best shape it has ever been and hunter success rates are higher than ever. Seems they are doing quite well.

Bad management, maybe but I prefer "good" management. This is one area that I believe the DNR has done a good job. It's not all DNR effort though. Just like ducks, pheasants, etc., we have support organizations that cater to the deer population and health as well and they too have done a great job.

Bob

[BigWadeS]

I think #1 is related to weather so I will say that is one key factor, I don't think other aniamls "hurt the heard" so to say, I think Hunters with many areas the past few years getting up to 5 tags hurts more then the others.

[Shad rap]

I agree with Swill.

We need better deer management in MN. I moved up here from Iowa 8 years ago. It was nothing to see deer every night out bow hunting, and you would see deer in almost every section when driving around. And in the winter you would see herds of deer out feeding in the evening. When I moved to Willmar, a guy at work that had a lot of land invited me to hunt with him for the season. The land he got us on was choice looking land. But it was missing the deer. I didn’t realize if you had a doe walk by you better shot or you might not get another shot all year. After 4 years of hunting around here I gave up and started hunting in ND where you see deer on a nightly basic again. I was back in Iowa for thanksgiving. Once I hit the boarder I seen 15 deer in the first 5 miles and I wasn’t even looking for deer. I can not tell you the last time I seen a deer around here that was not in a state park. The local MN people that have always hunted in MN might not see what the problem is. But our herds are way behind the boarding states of WI, IA, ND and SD.

[BDR]

Speaking for the area I hunt I totally disagree. Herd are at all time highs. Sure there are days I don't see them, but that sure don't mean they are not there. Sure there are some quality looking areas that have few deer, but if I sit there long enough I am sure to see a pack of coyotes. Not bad management. Quality deer management is a totally different issue than population. I hunt in on of the highest ratios of hunters per square mile in the state. I have taken a very nice 10 pointer 3 of the last 4 years. Maybe it is a local thing but I don't beliave it. Everywhere I have pheasant hunted the last few years I have seen adequate numbers of deer also.

[Cooter]

In my hunting area in WI I would say hunters #1 without a doubt followed by road kill(nice busy hwy close by ) and then coyotes(very healthy pop of those buggers ). I don't think the other options are much for factors here. And the hunter impact is without a doubt a reflection of DNR policies with virtually unlimited doe tags and this year EAB - no complaints on that. Later.

[bottomdweller]

I also agree with swill. I grew up in northern mn and hunted there most of my life and I will say the hunting was bad, at least where we hunted. Deer numbers were very low. I dont hunt up there now but family and friends do and the hunting has gotten much better the last ten years. ButI believe you can contribute that to the lack of severe winters not dnr management. Remember the winters back in the seventies and eighties. Hate to see what will happen when we start getting winters again.

[BobT]

Actually, the winters during the '80s weren't all that bad. Snow levels were not excessive. I know, I was logging during most of the '80s in the area around Virginia. The winter of '96-'97 proved to be one of the toughest on the deer herd and it was followed by the winter of '99-'00 which was also one of the worst and yet the deer population and hunter success was still better than the '70s. I grew up hunting in the '70s and those were meager times. It was so bad the seasons were closed at least once, maybe twice as I recall.

Bob

[BobT]

On a somewhat related note to this discussion:

I grew up in the 1970s in Kinney, MN which is located about 10 miles west of Virginia. I worked and played in the forests around and on the Laurentian Divide most of my life and still make annual pilgrimage for deer and grouse hunting, camping, etc. Although the deer hunting has improved dramatically over the years, one thing that I believe has taken a turn for the worse is grouse hunting. In this case, I attribute the weather as a major contributor. Recent winters with low snow levels are very hard on the grouse. Even though the winters of late have been mild by historic standards, they still boast some rather cold time periods and without the insulating protection of the snow for these birds, their numbers have dwindled. In my youth it was nothing to flush 20 to 30 birds in an afternoon. It’s been a long time since I have experienced that kind of production. I remember my dad using up entire boxes of shells in a single hunt using a single shot 12ga.

On the flip side, the pheasant population around my area in recent years has seen a rather consistent upswing since about 2000 as the mild, snow deficient winters are a huge benefit for them. On the 87 acres I own I have seen more birds this year in a half-dozen outings than I did throughout all of the 1990s combined. I have flushed well over 20 birds on my property this year while hunting alone. Imagine what I could have done if I had a dog, much less a good one?

For most of this summer and so far continuing into the winter we have been in the throws of a fairly major drought. It will be interesting to see its affect on next year’s waterfowl production. Small ponds on my farm that I haven’t seen dry before have dried up this year. Within a half mile of my home there are over 750 acres of WMA and WPA land with many small, shallow ponds very suitable for ducks and geese. Most of them have all but dried up completely. I usually have at least three pairs of nesting geese and a half-dozen pairs of ducks in the ponds and other low wetlands I have but next year might not be so good unless we get some precipitation.

I think weather by far has the most significant impact on the success of wild species. Weather single-handedly impacts them in the most numberous ways and affects or even controls most of the other causes mentioned. Weather affects food and water supply, newborn, aged, and weakling survival rates, disease and virus propagation, and predator survival; all of which affects the animals’ abilities to survive.

Bob

[Eric Wettschreck]

Weather.

For those that say it's the incompetent DNR.....all I can say to that is I've shot deer every year for the last 10 years. The fellas that have grown up in this area say it surely was not like that 20 years ago. So here we go again with the QDM arguement. Quality deer to Joe is different than quality deer to Jack and because of their difference in opinion the DNR is incompetent. There are surely big bucks out there and plenty of them. All you have to do is look in the paper, outdoor news, and the road ditch to see them. If you want to shoot one go out and hunt them.

Weather.

[sachem longrifle]

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On a somewhat related note to this discussion:

I grew up in the 1970s in Kinney, MN which is located about 10 miles west of Virginia. I worked and played in the forests around and on the Laurentian Divide most of my life and still make annual pilgrimage for deer and grouse hunting, camping, etc. Although the deer hunting has improved dramatically over the years, one thing that I believe has taken a turn for the worse is grouse hunting. In this case, I attribute the weather as a major contributor. Recent winters with low snow levels are very hard on the grouse. Even though the winters of late have been mild by historic standards, they still boast some rather cold time periods and without the insulating protection of the snow for these birds, their numbers have dwindled. In my youth it was nothing to flush 20 to 30 birds in an afternoon. It’s been a long time since I have experienced that kind of production. I remember my dad using up entire boxes of shells in a single hunt using a single shot 12ga.

On the flip side, the pheasant population around my area in recent years has seen a rather consistent upswing since about 2000 as the mild, snow deficient winters are a huge benefit for them. On the 87 acres I own I have seen more birds this year in a half-dozen outings than I did throughout all of the 1990s combined. I have flushed well over 20 birds on my property this year while hunting alone. Imagine what I could have done if I had a dog, much less a good one?

For most of this summer and so far continuing into the winter we have been in the throws of a fairly major drought. It will be interesting to see its affect on next year’s waterfowl production. Small ponds on my farm that I haven’t seen dry before have dried up this year. Within a half mile of my home there are over 750 acres of WMA and WPA land with many small, shallow ponds very suitable for ducks and geese. Most of them have all but dried up completely. I usually have at least three pairs of nesting geese and a half-dozen pairs of ducks in the ponds and other low wetlands I have but next year might not be so good unless we get some precipitation.

I think weather by far has the most significant impact on the success of wild species. Weather single-handedly impacts them in the most numberous ways and affects or even controls most of the other causes mentioned. Weather affects food and water supply, newborn, aged, and weakling survival rates, disease and virus propagation, and predator survival; all of which affects the animals’ abilities to survive.

Bob

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Bob, I think the reason you are seeing less grouse is because of less aggressive forest management, esp. on national forests. I hunt county and state land in Minn and Wi., Boulder Lake management area, Canosia WMA and this year I saw a great number of birds. Don't forget the 10 year cycle. We had a low snow winter in 1998 and yet had great hunting that fall. Grouse need young aspen in dense stands and there is less of that on National Forests now than there was 20 to 30 years ago. I think it's tougher for a state to manage national forests lands than it's own state or county forests. Stick more to WMA, county and state land, and timber company land and you will find more birds. Also, join the Ruffed Grouse Society. They do alot of work in Minn, Wisc, and Michigan

[Outdoors_Junkie]

I hunt up by URL. I have hunted the same area for 22 years (since I was 12). During the past few years, the deer numbers have been up. I think it has a lot to do with the weather (mainly snow fall). We have not had the huge snow fall the past few years. The deer are able to find more food, and avoid the timberwolves. I remember about ten years back it was buck only for a year or two because the numbers were down after a couple of bad winters. My dad and grandpa have hunted this area since the 60's. There have been years that it was buck only. There were a few years in the 70's that you had to pick a season (one weekend instead of the normal 2 1/2 weeks in zone 1A). There was a year or two that the season was closed. We have had some mild winters the last few years and the deer have thrived. The DNR try to do what they can. Is it the best plan? Maybe not, but at least they limit doe permits when numbers are down.