Can't figure out trolling

[BlackwaterStout]

I've posted in several threads here and have read quite a lot about trolling. But I still feel like I'm wasting my time out on the water. I've spent several hours over the last 2 weeks trolling and I just have no confidence. I'm trolling two rods for walleye. One is using 14 pound power pro with a 10 pound flouro leader, the other is trolling 12 pound cajun red. I'm primarily trolling either a crawler harness or a jointed shad rap. My problem is that I really have no idea what is happening underwater. I've been trolling at various speeds between 1.8-2.6 mph. But I'm not sure what I'm looking at. My rod holders hold the rod horizontally to the water. They have a nice bend in them as I troll. But I'm still not sure what to look for if and when I get a bite. I'm trying to troll close to teh bottom and occationally I think my weight from the three way worm harness hits the bottom. It causes my pole to bounce a bit. I keep thinking I have a fish on. How do I distinguish a fish on the line from my lure or weight constantly dragging bottom. I really wish I knew a trolling expert to ride along with me and show me the ropes but I don't know anyone.

What should I do? I've been trying to troll in the late evening near shorelines and along a sunken island with no luck.

[Wade Joseph]

I am no expert, but I would try slowing down a little. This may mean going a little lighter with the weight. 1-1.5 mph. You want the bait to be close to the bottom at all times. The shad rap should be cruising along just above the bottom. With 10 lb test line it should dive to roughly 10'. As for the crawler harness, I will deffer that technique to others as I have rarely used it trolling, only drifting.

When a fish hits the lure, it should almost hook itself (set the hook anyway when you pick up the rod) but you should notice a signifigant difference in the bend in the rod with a fish on. Its kinda hard to explain, but I hope this helps a little.

[Valv]

I think you are mixing 2 types of trolling. Crawler harness is a very slow troll, and you have to hold the rod in your hands to be able to feel bites or a "take".

Rod holders are more used with artificial lures (Rapalas, etc.) it can be done at different speeds.

Depending on what fish you are targeting, you have to find your location, it can be on flats, near dropoffs, on weed edges, etc.

[slick814]

I'll second Valv's opinion on the different speeds for different lures.

When I'm trolling a crawler harness or live bait spinner rig, I use a bottom bouncer or even a bullet type weight, rather than the three way you mentioned. I feel it gives a more direct feel to what's happening there. Make sure you've got enough line out to get the lure to the bottom, and hold the rod when using those types of rig. Troll slowly.. (like using the trolling motor on about a 2 or 3 setting?) you'll feel a tap-tap-tap. I usually let some line out at that point... (fish with your line able to spool out froeely, holding the line with your finger or thumb, depending on reel type), then click the spool back into gear, and if the fish is still there, set the hook!

AS far as trolling cranks... work at a speed that they do their wobble the best. For smaller lures like a Shap Rap or Husky Jerk, I like to go between 1.7 - 2.0 mph... For something like a Reef Runner, we've been as fast as 3.5, depending on conditions and lake structure.... THe rod in a rod holder will get a MUCH bigger bend than it had with no fish, even with a 12" er on... you'll know if something's there.

Hope this helps!!

OH.. and if you look around at some of your catalogs (cabela's, bass pro, whatever) there is a book/DVD out there for accurate trolling... I'd recommend it highly!

[BlackwaterStout]

Thanks for the info guys. I guess my first main issue is to not use the worm harness from a rod holder. I've got to get used to holding it myself. I guess I'm just not sure how to know I'm at the right depth when the bottom contour is constantly changing. I've been trying to troll a submerged island and I'm trying to zigzag my pattern. Maybe I need to focus on one depth. I'll look into replacing my 3 way rig with a bullet sinker type of rig.

[Ice9]

BW, where in West Virginia are you fishing? A reservoir? Second the other opinions on how to go. If you're using electronics, it's also important to make a good choice of an area to fish (and a time to fish.) Once you make a careful choice, you have to be confident--even if you have no cause to be yet. Slow troll that crawler harness, and I'd go with just a single hook lindy-style rig with a 3/4 ounce weight at least, so you can get a real sense of the difference between bottom contact and a bite. If the lake is like the ones I know in WV, you should be getting all kinds of hits from catfish, bass, panfish, and walleyes, so you're probably going too fast. Even if you're allowed to use two rods, you should perfect this technique with one, and not just because it's tought to properly react to a bite if you're not holding the rod. To catch walleyes consistently you have to be able to tune in to their behavior which ranges more widely than most fish.

ice

[Finlander]

Try trolling #5 shad raps in 9-15' of water and as you troll this lure, give your rod a quick snap forward then let it pause backwards so it totally stop and suspends. Then continue trolling forward then repeat the proceess and see what HAPPENS! you will catch fish!

Good Luck!!!!

[BlackwaterStout]

Thanks ice. I'm fishing in reserviors such as Cheat, Tygart, and Stonewall Jackson Lakes. I think I have the right locations and times picked out right now, it's just the technique for me that I'm having a problem with. Would it help if I switched from power pro to a good quality mono. Maybe that power pro is too sensative for me?

I spent a little time yesterday morning trying to troll a submerged sand bar in the early morning. I was marking some fish near the bottom in about 10-15 feet of water. It was frustrating. At times I thought I was doing things right and at other times I was flustered trying to keep the boat on the same contour while trying to maintain the right length of line I had out. I had no takers yesterday. The slowest I can get my boat to troll is 1.8 mph. I'm gonna have to get something to slow me down if I want to go slower. I'll keep plugging away at it. Would like to catch a coupl just to reassure myself that I'm doing things at least half right.

[Wade Joseph]

Real easy solution to slow down the boat is to take 2 5 gal buckets, tie a short piece of rope to each one (just long enough so they will sink below the surface but not interfere with motor or lines.)and toss them into the water, more drag = slower boat.

[castmaster]

an even easier way to slow down is to back troll.

also, maybe find an area with rock, gravel or some other type of HARD bottom so you can get a feel of what bottom feels like. running cranks you want to feel the lure hitting bottom, and thats much easier with hard bottom versus soft.

when trolling cranks you will know when a fish hits, and you'll know if its a decent sized fish if it doesnt come right to the surface.

also while your learning a feel for things it might help to run a crank that dives deep fast, so that you can get to bottom with a shorter line length, which will help your lure follow the contour and the path of the boat more precisely. the shorter the line you can use and still hit bottom the more precisely your line/lure will follow the boats path.

[upnorth]

For spinners, I usually hold them over the side of the boat for a minute or so to see how and if the blades are turning. I usually troll just fast enough to make the blades turn and I give it a pull every now and then to make the blades spin a bit more when it down on the bottom. And yes you gotta make sure you are at least close to the bottom. Pulling Crank baits is something I am not that experienced at yet, but I try for something around 2.8 to 3.5 mph hour. And consider for trolling cranks I use a 70 horse getting down below 2.8 is a challeng. Just be sure your lure is running true.

[slick814]

ANother way to slow doen your trolling would be to use a drift sock or two, depending on how much speed you want to lose.

Trolling cranks, I use the 70hp main motor on my boat. Trolling spinner rigs or live bait rigs, I use the trolling motor... you can get things down to just fast enough to make the blades spin.

As far as feeling bottom, or not feeling bottom... try using a bottom bouncer type of weight until you get the feel for it, then try the bullets... I learned a lot about what I was missing by using bottom bouncers. Then making the switch to bullet type or bottom walker type sinkers, I have a good idea of what I should be feeling.

I do have aonther question for you, though... have you tried using Lindy rigs? maybe forcing yourself to use the trolling motor, going extremely slow compared to crankbait speeds, will help with finding that feel that you're looking for.

[picksbigwagon]

Wade Joseph, do you drill holes into the 5 gallon buckets or just hope that the handles hold? does it slow you down that much, that a person wouldn't need a Wind sock?

If I could get by with buckets for a year, it will save me 50 bucks

[PerchJerker]

Couple suggestions .....

First, you should think of trolling as a way to cover water and SEARCH for ACTIVE fish. Try to cover a lot of water. Try to eliminate water and baits that don't work. I wouldn't abandon what you think is a good bait or a good area after just 1 or 2 attempts, but I would keep moving, keep searching, keep trying things until you connect.

Next, I would continue to use 2 rods. Remember, you need to be searching for fish. I would run 2 crankbaits at the same time, or two lines with live bait at the same time. If running live bait, try holding one of the rods .... but if you're rigged correctly and the fish are aggressive you'll get plenty of hookups in a rod holder on either a 3-way or bottom bouncer setup with a crawler harness. But ..... if you're really not sure what's going on with your bait, then I'd only run 1 rod until I started to get things under control.

For livebait, I'd go around 1 mph. For crankbaits, I'd think 1.5 to 1.8 would be good starting points. What are your water temps -- sounds like you're going too fast for this early in the year???

If you're dragging bottom with a 3-way or bottom bouncer, reel up a couple cranks. You want to be close to the bottom, not on the bottom.

What depths are you fishing - are you experimenting shallow to deep? Are you mixing up crankbait styles - minnow baits, shad body baits, etc. - and colors - to look for something that works? Are you running appropriate sized baits - even small baits? Generally trolling is a great way to connect with lots of different species, not just walleyes.

Good luck and I hope you get it nailed.

[nytelyter]

2 rods? per person? are you fishing border waters? i was not aware that you could use two rods on non border waters for open water fishing. just curious. ... paul

[PerchJerker]

He is not fishing in MN, and he says 2 rods are legal where he fishes.

[castmaster]

the original poster is in west virginia

[Borch]

When trolling crankbaits look for areas that 1. hold fish and 2. are fairly easy to trolling. After that it really gets into technique.

Lets cover number one first.

Are there structural features that would attract or hold fish. Things like drop offs, channels, weeds, timber, points, bars etc. are structural features that attract fish. Other elements that attract fish include current, wind direction/wave action and baitfish. If you have a shoreline that has been getting pounded by the wind for a day or two I'd be heading there. If a mudline develops it's a bonus. Lots of reasons for the wind thing. Cuts down light penetration, stirs up the water creating food for baitfish, concentrates baitfish for the walleyes to eat. Plus if there's a mudline there a new ambush point for pedators like walleyes.

Second

Is the area easy to troll. Sharp irregular contours may be great at attracting fish. But are very difficult to follow while trolling. Focus on these for more precise presentations like livebait rigging or jigging. Weeds and timber can cause problems with snagging or fouling lures frequently. Look for flats near drop offs or more gradual drop offs. Larger pieces of structure are easier to troll than smaller pieces of structure.

Lets talk line for a second. I have almost exclusively gone to super braids on my trolling setups. I do not use any flourcarbon or mono as leader material and have not notcied any dropoff in the bite. I like the superbraid due to sensitively as I frequently fish around weeds. I can detect even a small piece of weed on my spinner or crank. A quick snap of the rod clear the weed of the crank in most cases.

Speed: This is really situational. Sometime the eyes want it fast and sometime they want it slow. In general I'm pulling cranks at 1.5-3.0 mph. Sometimes, especially mid summer, I'll go as fast as 4.5 mph to trigger strikes. If they aren't hitting change up the speed. Spinners I run from .5 - 2.3 mph. Use a drift sock or backtroll to slow down. The buckets work but are a pain to take out of the water.

Rodholder or in the hand?

Again situational. Most of the time I like to keep the rod in hand and pump/pause the rod to create speed change to trigger strikes. But there are times that in the rod holder will catch you more fish. I'm on a bite like that now. The fish are hitting the baits lightly and if I have the rod in hand I miss a lot more fish as I set the rod and pull the bait away from the fish. In the holder the fish ahve been hooking themselves at a much higher frequency.

Now baits and more technique stuff.

Different crankbaits dive different depths and have different actions. The depths is also affected by line diameter, amount of line out and speed to some extent. Pick up a Precision trolling book and your learn curve will be sped up considerably. Just do a google search and you'll find it. Don't worry about being real near the bottom. I try to be in the bottom half of the water column most of the time. With two rods you'll be able to experiment a bit more. Try one natural and one bright color or diferent types of lure action. The amount of line out also can play into your success. Generally I'm fishing with 75-125 ft of line out. Get a line counter for your rod or on your real. If your like be I add a bobber stop at 100 ft and then adjust based on that reference mark. Again try different amounts of line out.

With bottom bouncers or three way rigs the general rule is 1 oz of weight for every 10 ft of water depth. The goal here is to fish fairly straight down(45 degree angle or less). Again feel free to experiment and speed effects the amount of weight you'll need as well. Then there's spinners. Lots of sizes, style and colors. Single hook rigs as well as crawler harness's. Again experiement a bit.

Now if fish are scattered I'll troll cranks or spinners the whole time. If I find them concentrated I'll stop and jig and rig the school. Many times I'll outfish the rigger and jiggers when the fish are scattered and somewhat aggressive. Again whether I stop trolling or not when I find fish is situational.

Good Luck!

[Quickstrike]

I agree with the 2 rod technique for border waters and states where 2 lines are legal. I swear I have caught as many fish on the rod in the holder as the rod in my hand. However, it's not as easy as just dropping it in the holder and letting it drag. I check quite often to make sure that my bottom bouncer is running right OFF of the bottom and my spinner is running true. I almost always then hold my other rod in hand. I have always had a great hook up % with my rod in the holder. I tie my own rigs with VMC cone-cut hooks and have had very good luck with them.

Another technique that I know Northlander likes is to use line counter reels and learn how many feet to let out at a certain speed and a certain depth, this makes it very simple to know where you are at in comparison to the bottom. Hope this helps.

[castmaster]

quickstrike points out something i forgot to mention....line counters are a very valuable tool to have, as is a rod with a proper action for trolling. i like my trolling rods to have a slower action so as to better tell whats going on by watching the tip.

i prefer the daiwa sg-17's for line counters but others may work as well. i use the sg-47's for trolling large muskie baits.

another option that hasnt been mentioned yet is trolling lead line. that will help get you down with less line out.

[Wade Joseph]

Drill holes, make rope handles, and drill a 2" hole in the bottom. They aint drift socks, but they'll save you some cash for the time being.

[walleyeguy7]

Blackwater, I don't know if I am repeating anything anyone else said or not, but I hope I can help because trolling for eyes can be some of the best fishing you could experience. First of all a sonar unit with a GPS map will help immensly, if not a good map, lakemaster, etc.. if you have a GPS go along weed lines, rock edges, sand flat breaks, or whatever structure you decide to fish and make a trail that you can follow, this technique works great especially at night. Second, tolling spinners, you probably want to start out just fast enough to get the blade spinning, usually 0.8-1.3 mph depending on size and type of blade. Then play with it bit, rip it forward, drop it back, let the fish tell you what they want. I like to put a split shot about 3 feet ahead of the spinner and crawler, minnow or plastic and troll the weedlines on windy days. Third, trolling cranks is my favorite, there is a book called prescision trolling, you can find it at any store, and this will give you a general idea as to how deep your cranks are running. Maybe try using different line too, that can also be a big factor, super lines have no stretch and when you say that you might be getting hit you may just be ripping the hooks right out of the fishes mouth. Super lines are great for deeper water, but mono can be better for shallower water, I prefer 10 lb. vanish and I also use a south bend clasp with a rounded bottom to gisve the cranks a better action. Sooner than later it will become second nature, I hope what I said makes sense and helps you out, good luck.

[BlackwaterStout]

WOW! I stepped away from the forum for a few days and what a wealth of info you guys have provided. I'm going to go back and read it twice and try to take in all of the info I've just received. This thread has been a tremendous help. Thanks.