Extremely Low Deer Numbers

[grizzald]

I figured it was going to happen sooner or later, the deer numbers in the area of the state that I live in (West Central Minnesota) are absolutely terrible. I have asked a lot of my neihbors and other people that I know around the area if there seeing any around now that some of the corn is getting taken out and every reply is the same, there's just none around. Myself and others from the area have talked about this and we all feel something needs to be done real fast otherwise were gonna have absolutly nothing left hear. There are a few factors that we all feel are playing a role in the decline of numbers. First of all, back when we had that bad winter in '96-'97 pretty much all of the fawns died off. Now in the present,the bow hunting seaon runs three and a half months, I have nothing against bow hunting, but that long of a season is ridiculous. Second, there is two weekends of slug hunting and actually the second weekend runs four days. My feeling on this is there should only be one weekend. Third the muzzle loading season runs sixteen days. Well when muzzleloading is going on all the deer are usually hearded up for the winter. Its not really fair for the deer to have guys posting on the end and they can pick and choose which ones thay want to shoot when the heard is getting pushed to them. And now muzzleloaders are becoming so acuarate and powerful it's pretty much like a rifle. (One can't use a rifle in my area for deer). And while all this is going on , bowhunting is still going. And if thats not bad enough, I watched a group of muzzle loaders last year come out of the river bottoms carrying, not dragging there deer out, they shot off a bunch of fawns. Yet, I still read that my area has record numbers of deer.I think who ever is taking this count better come back out and re - evaluate that one. In all there is way to much pressure on these deer. The seasons run too long, maybe we need to go to a different system for these parts or just shut all deer hunting down here for a few years and let the numbers increase again.

[shae1986]

Now thats odd, I live in West Central Minnesota and the deer numbers hear are amazing, i have never seen this many deer before. As for muzzleloading, don't blame the muzzleloader hunting for the low deer population. How can you blame people for shooting fawns for table fare, i don't shoot fawns, but a lot of people shoot them to eat, isn't that the reason a lot of people hunt is too hunt for food. Look how shot gun hunters hunt with the huge parties of people that don't walk the woods, they march them. And you say that bowhunting season is too long. Well lets just say, getting a deer bow hunting is hard enough so thats why we get a long season and also we don't get the great rut hunts like the rifle hunters to harvest those bucks when they are most vounerable. What i see out of your message their is that you are mad at deer hunters, when thats not the entire problem for your low deer numbers, if they are low. Habitat management is the key. Good habitat=lots of deer. But i am not going into all that right now. And deer numbers are high, for a lot of places, i go to school in Crookston and on my way every weekend i see 20-30 deer just in the road ditches. I will be out hunting this weekend and the next and bow hunting the next then muzzleloading the next two then bow hunting the last 3 weekends, and i am going to help the deer population out by harvesting my five deer this year. As for your situation go hunt the public land by hitterdal, Hawley, Twin Valley, Crookston, there are a lot of deer here, shoot them.

[Piker]

I hunt a little further north of you and I think the numbers are very high. I don't think you can tell accurately how many deer you have at this time of year. I think the counting is done in the winter when they are herded up. When I don't see deer, I attribute it to the weather or some other factor. I believe they are there, but not moving.

I'd look for tracks and sign. If you don't have tracks and sign then that would be an indicator that you don't have a lot of deer. I think that the herd is generally pretty good state-wide.

[joe_stack20]

I have to Agree with the 2 Replies, I live in West Central Minnesota, and i have to say that the numbers this year Have to be the best ever, especially with last year when all the corn was still up. Everyone did terrible, Which means that a lot of deer made it thru the hunting season, plus the warm winter we had last year, i cant see any reasons that the numbers would be down. All i can say for sure is that the deer numbers around this part of the state, are sky high, and i will be out first weekend searching for Kwazi!!

[HC Eye Hunter]

Grizzald is right! In the Appleton area the deer counts seem to be lower than I have seen in years. Well, when you consider most of the uninhabited farm groves being dozed down, all the sloughs being drained, the DNR removing all the trees on public ground for prairie chicken habitat and the unbelievable amount of hunting preasure in the area something has to give! So, our deer herd is what is going to suffer and it is crazy to say that our deer numbers in this area are better or as good as they have been in the past. The general concenses of the people that are out bow hunting most every day in this area is pretty much the same as mine and Grizzwalds.

[grizzald]

Piker--

Of course there is a lot of deer up your way because there isn't nearly the pressure up there as here. This will be my 10th year deer hunting and I know it will be the worst. The last two weeks I've been sitting in my stands which are located in a mile of river bottom and I've seen one doe. Now you can't tell me that the deer population is good statewide, if you think it is come down to Appleton and try to hunt. As far as this years hunt goes, if its not a monster buck, I'm not shooting.

[swamptrailer]

I am not expert but the state as whole has way too many deer. The same goes for North Dakota. My guess is you answered your own question. prairie grasses. Deer love them. I live were lots of woods and the deer head for crp and stay there until snow pushes them. I have seen more come out 1/2 section of crp than woods any day when the conditions are right.

[Piker]

Hopefully, things look better in the near future for you.

[Sid]

Anyone who has been out in the agricultural areas of West Central Minnesota who claims there is a lot of deer is wrong. Period. What do the deer numbers by Crookston and Ulen have to do with West Central Minnesota? I think its obvious he was referring to West Central as in the agricultural area, say south of Elbow lake or so. The muzzleloading has absolutely had an effect on the deer herd near Appleton, etc. Why do they need 3 weekends to shoot a deer with their "primitive" weapon? I have no problem with muzzleloading, if it was managed appropriately. Why not have one 2 day slug season, and give them 4 days the following weekend for muzzleloading. Cripes, I guarantee we can go out to the range and I'll shoot slugs and you can shoot your muzzleloader at 125 yards and you'll win every time. And I'm a pretty good shot. Rather than just continuing to blow the heck out of everything that moves until its ALL gone, why not take some measures before it's too late?

For what it's worth, I am from Appleton originally, and now live in ND, and if you guys in MN think your state manages your resources at any more than a horrible rate, then you need to open your eyes to what goes on in other states. Your DNR is a joke.

[shae1986]

Sid, How can u say Ulen isn't part of the agricultureal area. There aren't many trees, mainly tree lines and little groves. There are a lot of deer around because of how we manage our resorces. And how can you say that North Dakota is any better, they complain how they have excess deer tags and people wont take them, of course not, especially for non residents, No deer to me is worth coming to North Dakota and paying for a $250 doller licence and even though i am a land owner of North Dakota it costs me $200, talk about a joke. Maybe you should look at your own DNR before you talk about ours.

Andrew

[Sid]

So what do you think the DNR's priority should be? Protecting the resources it has to play with or letting everyone who wants to shoot until Christmas? In North Dakota, if there is a particular area which has low deer numbers, guess what, the permits reflect it. Go to SD, if there is a pond/lake that starts giving up limits of walleyes, they slap some tight restrictions on it, right in the middle of the action. In MN, they just say, "Gee I don't know, our counts are at an all time high." Like they know better from their office at Headquarters than the people who farm the land and are there day in day out. North Dakota does things based on the resource, MN does things based on where the money is. Where I grew up it was not uncommon to see herds of 100-300 deer yarded up feeding along the river in the winter, with several BIG bucks mixed in. Now if you see 30 its a good day. 15 years ago, we would push out 20-25 bucks on good days, now if we SEE 5 on Saturday its pretty good. My point about the Ulen thing is what does Ulen's deer herd have to do with Appleton's? That area is pounded from duck opener until thanksgiving, nonstop. Ulen's deer probably get hunted by locals, and a few people from Fargo Moorhead. I was home hunting pheasants two weeks ago, and I have never seen so many vehicles in my life on gravel roads. Every acre of accessible land got hunted 3 times that weekend, I'll bet money. Luckily we have plenty of private stuff.

You still haven't answered my questions about why people need so much time to hunt deer.......

[lawdog]

This thread is absurd. If there is something happening in your small area that makes the deer numbers go down, that can be dealt with through the tag situation. You don't have to scrap an entire season scheme that is working throughout the state because of a small area that you have decided is void of deer (even though I bet the real counts show differently). If the numbers are so low in your area, ask the DNR to not give any doe tags, management tags, intensive tags etc in your area to build the numbers back up. If its real extreme, they could even not let the archers and muzzleloaders and all-season license holders tag does for a year there and then the numbers would come back. Don't throw out the baby with the bath water boys, the season structure we have now seems to be working in the vast majority of places.

[Mark Christianson]

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You still haven't answered my questions about why people need so much time to hunt deer.......

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I can answer that.

So I have LOTS of time in the field to be selective on the buck I shoot.

[Sid]

I'll tell you what, you guys keep blazing away over there, shoot your "button bucks" and basket racks, I'll keep going to the locker plant in ND and look at the dozens and dozens of truly BIG bucks hanging there every weekend. I'm sure you'll come back with something about your not a trophy hunter, blah blah blah, just ask yourself......Do we have a lot of QUALITY MATURE deer around? If you can answer yes, I have no argument for you. Good for you and good luck this month.

My whole argument here is that in that particular area, something needs to be done to let the population get started again. Whether that is related to number of doe tags or whatever. That area is in a tough spot right now because the few deer there are will be pressured to no end over the next month.

[Nova]

Funny, but I don't see you guys that are whinning about the deer population on the QDM or the food plot forums. Instead of whinning cause you don't have deer do something about it. AG land gets harvested and the deer don't have winter food. Put in some food plots to help them through the winter. Plant some cover plots so they have somewhere to hide. For heaven's sake do something other than harvest the deer and then whine when they are gone. Those of us true hunters don't just shoot the first deer that walks by, so 2 days isn't enough. I personally bow hunt, gun hunt and muzzleload because I like to hunt. I spend all 3 months in the stand just because I like it, not to shoot 14 deer. Don't rip on the season structure because like Lawdog said, it is working in the vast majority of the state.

[Sid]

Ah yes, the "true hunters" with every license offered, not to mention the ones that their wife who doesn't hunt has, their mother-in-law has, and so on.

[chucker34]

"I can answer that.

So I have LOTS of time in the field to be selective on the buck I shoot."

This I agree with. In my I area, I have to buy an all season license to be able to hunt a total of 6 days with my shotgun, four of which follow the first two day season the put the fear of God into the remaining deer. Not a lot of time to hold out for Mr. Big. I can see why people will shoot the first pair of antlers that walks by and why I might as well do the same.

I'm not a big one on more govt involvement, but maybe a longer season for some combined with some antler restrictions in their particular area would satisfy those looking for a big buck. Might also get some people to take some more does.

In any case, I don't have to worry because I took up bowhunting,

[shae1986]

Sid i agree with you on something, its amazing. There are so many small bucks shot in my area and i am sure many others. This bothers me, i am out for a big buck but for sure i shoot a doe for the freezer, but she is all ready in their from bow hunting. I am for antler restrictions in minnesota, Not only will this mean larger bucks but also i believe more people will shoot more does, the problem with it is some people wont shoot any deer, and around here, we need people to shoot deer.

Good Luck and be safe this weekend

Andrew

[Gissert]

Easy, there Sid. Painting with such a broad brush is gonna get you painted into a corner. Name calling and broad accusations like that will just cheese a lot of people off.

In my party last year, we could have legally harvested 4 bucks and 16 does. We shot one buck. We hunted both seasons, and I hunted the muzzleloader as well. If you do the homework, the vast majority of the people do not harvest their full quota of deer they are entitled to. Hunting last year was tough, but the standing corn sure did not help. It seemed that numbers were down in my Fergus Falls area, but my trail camera told me a different story this summer.

BTW, my wife hunts, and enjoys it very much. I do not know of anyone who hunts like you insinuate. I find that accusation offensive.

I certainly think the DNR is off base in some of their decisions, but deer management is not one of those areas.

[Sid]

It's alright fellas, I was just trying to stir up some activity. I do not mean to offend anyone. If this makes me a jerk, that's fine. I'm sure everyone is ready to go for the weekend.

On a serious note, I am from the Appleton area, and the deer numbers are kind of low, but there seems to be enough to keep us interested. They seem to show up once lead starts flying around the countryside.

As far as the states DNR's, MN will always be at a disadvantage in my opinion because of the pressure relative to the resources. Awful tough to manage everyone in MN. ND is a little easier. I do wish MN would go to either a doe tag or a buck tag, instead of either sex.

Good luck.

[HARPOON-OR-BUST]

SID, WHAT THE HECK IS YOUR PROBLEM....? GOOD GREIF

YOU OBVIOSLY DON'T HAVE ANY USEFUL INFORMATION TO SHARE! JUST LIKE TO [PoorWordUsage] AND MOAN!

[HARPOON-OR-BUST]

NOVA, THAT IS 100% CORRECT!!

[bigbucks]

Most of the state has deer galore. I'm not all that surprised though to hear there could be an area that gets hunted down. I remember hearing more than one "interesting" story from the Ortonville- Appleton area of guys chasing deer with trucks & running deer across multiple sections blazing away at them. The fact that it's so open down there makes it possible, ethical's a different story. If that type of hunting along with just too many hunters is the problem then I agree you should get as many people as you can from those specific areas to talk the DNR about adjusting the seasons.

As for where I am in dead central MN there's tons of deer. Like someone else said I'm pretty sure I'll get my 5 or more with party hunting, as I have for a few years already, but it sure hasn't hurt the population here. I'm also in agreement with the guys who're letting the small bucks go. I've been doing that for probably 3 years. I shoot mostly does & fawns, sometimes the fawns are bucks, so what, if you try to id every deer in our area you won't shoot enough to even slow the population down.

In our area some people, who don't bowhunt & aren't out in the woods that much, still question if there's many deer here, they're everywhere. I still have trouble seeing them at times bowhunting, because they don't always move on there own. We saw very few deer moving on their own last weekend, but we still saw a ton of sign & when we moved them, there were a lot there.

[chucker34]

"I still have trouble seeing them at times bowhunting, because they don't always move on there own."

Amen to that. I am taking Thursday and Friday off to bowhunt as a last hurah before gun season on Saturday. Hoping if I am on stand all day maybe I'll catch a buck as I've got my doe. But the funny thing is, I bet Saturday when I go out with my bow, I'll see and have more shots at deer when they're getting pushed around. So I don't know why some bowhunters get all ticked off that gun season is starting. The only inconvenience is putting on an orange vest and hat over my regular camo.

[ChuckN]

Sid,

Thanks for stirring the pot and trying to get people worked up over, nothing, really.

You keep referring to Appleton. I've pheasant hunted Appleton for years. My friend lived there, and I've hiked countless miles in that entire area. I've seen a lot of deer in that area, especially while chasing pheasants. In fact, 90% were bucks, and dandy bucks at that. I've walked right up to them and I've often wondered if they would charge at me it was so close. Don't sit in some field expecting to see deer all over. Hunt the thickest stuff you can find, you might be surprised.

You do live in an area that is hard to hunt. Deer do get spooked from pheasant hunters. Take that into effect. Deer are not stupid and they will hide where no human would want to go and bother them.

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Awful tough to manage everyone in MN. ND is a little easier. I do wish MN would go to either a doe tag or a buck tag, instead of either sex

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HUH? There is a severe overpopulation problem in certain areas, not the entire state. This has been in effect for less than 2 years? At least in my zone.