North Dakota Fighting Sioux (name the new team name)

[buzzsaw]

I guess Fishyguy already covered my comeback.... way to live in the past RIPPER! You must also be a Packers fan?

Wasn't this thread a discusion on the Sue name change? Maybe somebody ought to take there ADHD medicine so they can keep on track... national titles and counting of national titles hardly has anything to do with changing of the Sues name. I suppose you could always start a new thread regarding "counting national titles" and something to the effect of na na na na boo boo, my grandpa enjoyed watching them win it all back in the day!

Here here, I'll post off topic... Good series last week at home Fighting SUE!! We get done spanking Mich Tech in their house and they get to go on the road to the fabled Englestad palace and are expected to get swept by 50 time national champion ND... but what happened??? The SUE must have choked on all those trophies from the past, cuz they got str8 spanked! Beat down! crushed by the techies! How embarrasing... I mean anybody can lose a game to an inferior team, but back to back like that at home has got to be painful with all of that talent!! I'm just glad we didn't play Holy Cross twice or I might feel like a SUE fan after this past weekend!

[ripper]

I have no problem acknowledging their terrible current run. It's been pathetic. I also have no problem acknowledging MN's great season so far, you guys have rocked. I also think the Sioux will turn it on come playoff time. I also think MN has a great chance to go all the way and win the title this year, they have a great team but based on past teams, they seem to fade more times than not. My point is I think both programs are premier programs, probably the top two in the country. My opinion is that UND's is better and I think our history supports that. How easy you forget that three of those titles were in the 80's (80, 82, 87), then again in 97 and 00 and runner ups in 01 and 05. Other than the rodents 02, 03 great run you've not been a factor since the 70's. That's the period when there were "barely enough teams to feild the top 10 ranking".

[Black_Bay]

Ah yes the good old days of UND when their team was made up of 22 year old Canadians waiting for a call from the NHL.

[buzzsaw]

You started off nicely in your post, then kinda lost me. (which is easy to do)

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That's the period when there were "barely enough teams to feild the top 10 ranking".

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I before E except after C mah boy. Field.... Okay, I'm just messing with you now. If your going to pull out "some" of the stats in comparing the two programs, maybe you should pull them all out... Here's WCHA winners since 1959-1960 (inception)

Season Regular Season Tournament

2003-04 North Dakota Minnesota

2002-03 Colorado College Minnesota

2001-02 Denver Denver

2000-01 North Dakota St. Cloud State

1999-00 Wisconsin North Dakota

1998-99 North Dakota Denver

1997-98 North Dakota Wisconsin

1996-97 Minnesota/N.Dakota North Dakota

1995-96 Colorado College Minnesota

1994-95 Colorado College Wisconsin

1993-94 Colorado College Minnesota

1992-93 Minnesota-Duluth Minnesota

1991-92 Minnesota Northern Michigan

1990-91 Northern Michigan Northern Michigan

1989-90 Wisconsin Wisconsin

1988-89 Minnesota Northern Michigan

1987-88 Minnesota Wisconsin

1986-87 North Dakota North Dakota

1985-86 Denver Denver

1984-85 Minnesota-Duluth Minnesota-Duluth

1983-84 Minnesota-Duluth Minnesota-Duluth

1982-83 Minnesota Wisconsin

1981-82 North Dakota Wisconsin

1980-81 Minnesota Michigan Tech/Minnesota

1979-80 North Dakota Minnesota/North Dakota

1978-79 North Dakota Minnesota/North Dakota

1977-78 Denver Colorado College/Wisconsin

1976-77 Wisconsin Wisconsin

1975-76 Michigan Tech Michigan Tech/Minnesota

1974-75 Minnesota Michigan Tech/Minnesota

1973-74 Michigan Tech Michigan Tech/Minnesota

1972-73 Denver Denver/Wisconsin

1971-72 Denver Denver/Wisconsin

1970-71 Michigan Tech Denver/Minnesota

1969-70 Minnesota Michigan Tech/Wisconsin

1968-69 Michigan Tech Denver/Michigan Tech

1967-68 Denver Denver/North Dakota

1966-67 North Dakota Michigan State/North Dakota

1965-66 Michigan Tech Denver/Michigan State

1964-65 North Dakota Michigan Tech

1963-64 Michigan Denver

1962-63 Denver/North Dakota Denver

1961-62 Michigan Tech Michigan Tech

1960-61 Denver Denver/Michigan

1959-60 Denver Denver/Michigan Tech

1957-58 North Dakota/Denver

1956-57 Colorado College

1955-56 Michigan

1954-55 Colorado College

1953-54 Minnesota

1952-53 Minnesota/Michigan

1951-52 Colorado College

Thats a total of 13 regular season league championships to 9 in favor of ND, and 11 post season touney championships to 7 in favor of Minnesota.

Now lets look at some other tid bits.... you already know the total championship count, but here it is in ink.

NCAA Tournament Champions

Year Champion Runner Up Site

2004 Denver Maine Boston, Mass.

2003 Minnesota New Hampshire Buffalo, N.Y.

2002 Minnesota Maine St. Paul, Minn.

2001 Boston College North Dakota Albany, N.Y.

2000 North Dakota Boston College Providence, R.I.

1999 Maine New Hampshire Anaheim, Calif.

1998 Michigan Boston College Boston

1997 North Dakota Boston University Milwaukee

1996 Michigan Colorado College Cincinnati

1995 Boston University Maine Providence, R.I.

1994 Lake Superior Boston University St. Paul, Minn.

1993 Maine Lake Superior Milwaukee

1992 Lake Superior *Wisconsin Albany, N.Y.

1991 Northern Michigan Boston University St. Paul, Minn.

1990 Wisconsin Colgate Detroit

1989 Harvard Minnesota St. Paul, Minn.

1988 Lake Superior St. Lawrence Lake Placid, N.Y.

1987 North Dakota Michigan State Detroit

1986 Michigan State Harvard Providence, R.I.

1985 Rensselaer Providence Detroit

1984 Bowling Green Minnesota-Duluth Lake Placid, N.Y.

1983 Wisconsin Harvard Grand Forks, N.D.

1982 North Dakota Wisconsin Providence, R.I.

1981 Wisconsin Minnesota Duluth, Minn.

1980 North Dakota Northern Michigan Providence, R.I.

1979 Minnesota North Dakota Detroit

1978 Boston University Boston College Providence, R.I.

1977 Wisconsin Michigan Detroit

1976 Minnesota Michigan Tech Denver

1975 Michigan Tech Minnesota St. Louis

1974 Minnesota Michigan Tech Boston

1973 Wisconsin *Denver Boston

1972 Boston University Cornell Boston

1971 Boston University Minnesota Syracuse, N.Y.

1970 Cornell Clarkson Lake Placid, N.Y.

1969 Denver Cornell Colorado Springs, Colo.

1968 Denver North Dakota Duluth, Minn.

1967 Cornell Boston University Syracuse, N.Y.

1966 Michigan State Clarkson Minneapolis

1965 Michigan Tech Boston College Providence, R.I.

1964 Michigan Denver Denver

1963 North Dakota Denver Chestnut Hill, Mass.

1962 Michigan Tech Clarkson Utica, N.Y.

1961 Denver St. Lawrence Denver

1960 Denver Michigan Tech Boston

1959 North Dakota Michigan State Troy, N.Y.

1958 Denver North Dakota Minneapolis

1957 Colorado College Michigan Colorado Springs, Colo.

1956 Michigan Michigan Tech Colorado Springs, Colo.

1955 Michigan Colorado College Colorado Springs, Colo.

1954 Rensselaer Minnesota Colorado Springs, Colo.

1953 Michigan Minnesota Colorado Springs, Colo.

1952 Michigan Colorado College Colorado Springs, Colo.

1951 Michigan Brown Colorado Springs, Colo.

1950 Colorado College Boston University Colorado Springs, Colo.

1949 Boston College Dartmouth Colorado Springs, Colo.

1948 Michigan Dartmouth Colorado Springs, Colo.

I give credit to ND for having more titles as thats what counts in the end, BUT... your talking history and Minnesota has 6 runner ups to ND's 4... I know, I know... I'm not by anymeans bragging... just talking about appearances in THE game is all.

Lets talk Hobey Baker winners.... (last year was left out, don't know why)

Hobey Baker Memorial Award

2003-04 Junior Lessard, F, Minnesota-Duluth

2002-03 Peter Sejna, F, Colorado College

2001-02Jordan Leopold, D, Minnesota

2000-01 Ryan Miller, G, Michigan State

1999-00 Mike Mottau, D, Boston College

1998-99 Jason Krog, F, New Hampshire

1997-98 Chris Drury, F, Boston University

1996-97 Brendan Morrison, F, Michigan

1995-96Brian Bonin, F, Minnesota

1994-95 Brian Holzinger, F, Bowling Green

1993-94 Chris Marinucci, F, Minnesota-Duluth

1992-93 Paul Kariya, F, Maine

1991-92 Scott Pellerin, F, Maine

1990-91 David Emma, F, Boston College

1989-90 Kip Miller, F, Michigan State

1988-89 Lane MacDonald, F, Harvard

1987-88Robb Stauber, G, Minnesota

1986-87Tony Hrkac, F, North Dakota

1985-86 Scott Fusco, F, Harvard

1984-85 Bill Watson, F, Minnesota-Duluth

1983-84 Tom Kurvers, D, Minnesota-Duluth

1982-83 Mark Fusco, D, Harvard

1981-82 George McPhee, F, Bowling Green

1980-81Neal Broten, F, Minnesota

My whole point is that I don't think you can say that ND or Minnesota has a better history over one another (unless your solely looking at championships) and thats close enough! It's really more a story of two great programs... one who's name won't be changing and another's who's may be changing.

[ripper]

I'm glad to see that we both can agree they are both great programs. Sometimes one is up and one is down from time to time but both are in the mix year after year. These are marks of premier programs which they both can be proud of. I'm done with the UND/MN banter, I always cheer for WCHA (the premier conference) teams even MN (unless they happen to be playing UND ) I'm sad to say that eventually we will have to change our proud nickname. I just wish the NCAA would be uniform and address the other programs. Such as Illinois "Fighting" Illini (no different than UND) or Florida St Seminols (sp?) Have you every see what they do before football games, some white kid dressed in war paint charging to mid field driving a spear into the ground. Give me a break! UND has never treated the Sioux name with disrespect.

[buzzsaw]

I think we all agree that changing their name is downright wrong and the NCAA is weak for backing down to whomever is pushing the buttons... people are way too sensitive these days!

[PierBridge]

If the Sioux names goes so does the Fighting Irish of Notre Dame......and that Fighting Illinie Dude from Illinois goes to...

[Steve Foss]

I guess I must be getting old. I went to my first Sioux hockey game in 1972. My dad covered them for the G.F. Herald for 35 years until his retirement last year. He still covers them for the UND Web site.

I remember those bad old days in the 70s, when UND teams stank all the time, and I remember those national championship as well, having a blast during the Hrkac Circus days. I went to a lot of games over the years and watched a lot of dead badgers and gophers get tossed over the glass onto the ice. So you can see it was a UND household. It's also where I went to college, where I majored in English and Indian Studies.

This thread has been pretty fun to look at. I don't come over to this board very often, because fan smack talk is utterly predictable. But I laughed out loud a few times on this thread. Not to mention, you can learn a lot about people's personalities by looking at how they defend their teams.

My mind has been made up a long time about the Sioux nickname. I covered the nickname issue a time or two as a GFHerald reporter in the late 90s, as well. And whether they change it or not, it'll be fun to cheer on the team I grew up with. What's my position on the name? Doesn't matter. What's your position? Doesn't matter either. As far as I'm concerned, it's between the university and the Lakota people, and nothing your or I say, even as alums, matters much (there, that'll give you smack talkers something to zap me about). The NCAA certainly should have nothing to say about it, but should mind its own business and leave UND's business to UND. I wish UND the best of luck in the courtroom.

[moccasinboy]

The Fighting Non-residents, but if they're not born in ND they can only play 10 days of each season, in succession or 2 sets of 5.

[PierBridge]

Quote:

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I wish UND the best of luck in the courtroom.

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[genegodawa]

Of all the suggestions, I like Skitter's the best:

N D Fighting I'm Offended

[Wapiti]

Such a long post I couldn't possibly have time to read all of the "proposed" new nicknames (some great names from the ones I did read though)so maybe it's already been put on the list, but I like The North Dakota Fighting Canadians. At least for the sport of Men's hockey, this name would be perfect!! Carry on!

[papabear]

They can always follow the trail MN set with the grand rapids Thunderhawks, and the Burnsville Blaze.

I remeber The Indians logos in Grand rapids and the chearleaders with the war bonnets on. the Thunderhawks who ever thought of that one should be sent back down to edina.

Maybe they can confuse everyone and go with the UND Bulldogs

[fishlips]

stjcatfish - Good points. The naming issue should be based on the local Sioux tribes input. The problem is that in today's PC world, the "feelings" of a vocal few get forced onto the majority. I think the loss of the "Sioux" name would be a lose to the Sioux community and their memory.

Wapita ~

The "fighting canadians" thing is a little funny, but the core of the Sioux are 'locals' (Ryan Duncan is the son of a UND alumni) and ND doesn't get to cherry pick the graduating seniors like the gophs do. Admit it..you'd be the first one to cheer on a canadian star playing for the goofies...there's been many in the past.

[PierBridge]

HUH? the core of locals you speak of is 2 North Dakotans.

Nodak doesn't have as many Canadians as in years past but the they still have 11 canucks along with 8 Minnesotan's.

Changing the Nickname will have ZERO effect on the Sioux community and their memory..... Ralph may roll over in his grave but thats about it.

I don't recall too many Canadians on the Gophers....do you have any of their names?

[Wapiti]

I will admit it...I don't like it one bit when the Gophers get players from outside of the state of MN! Their tradition is based on MN kids and win or lose, that's why I respect that program so much. Can you name any other team in any other college sport that has the identity tradition of the MN Gophers hockey program? Year in, year out the team is made up of MN kids, that is a constant! Did I have fun watching Thomas Vanek play for the Gophers, you bet I did! I didn't like the fact that Lucia and staff started messing with the MN kid tradition, but in order to compete that might be needed these days?? Maine vs. St. Cloud yesterday, announcer is talking about a Maine player and says he's the only player on Maine, from Maine...I know some schools can't compete by having the majority of in-state players...but one!! Sioux tradition has been and from the looks of it, will be majority of the roster is made up of Canadian players...fact! Why do you suppose the Gophers get to to "cherry pick" the state's best seniors? Tradition...every MN kid wants to play for the Gophers...the recruiting for that was done decades ago!! And that, for those who actually care, is how I came up with "The Fighting Canadians".

[Mudcutter]

I think the guy (his name is on the tip of my tongue) that scored the game winner to be beat Maine in 2002 was from ND or Canada. After all those years of Woog and MN guys--- the difference maker was from outta state and maybe outta country.

But you have a solid point--- not to many Canucks suit up for the GOPHS.

[Mudcutter]

might it be Grant Potulny???

[snowman678]

Quote:

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might it be Grant Potulny???

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Yes, Grant scored the game winner. Right now you have Briggs from CO, the rest are all MN players. Last year there were a couple of others in Ryan Potulny and Danny Irmen (from ND btw ) as well as Kessell from WI. The only Canadian players that I can recall recently are Chris Chucko and Peter Kennedy both on last years team. Like was mentioned earlier Vanek from Austria.

Pier, your post made me yell BURN at my computer; nice work creating another sioux fan "foot in mouth" moment.

[PierBridge]

Let's just hope the Winner of todays game doesn't have a let down and can bring the Hardware home to WCHA AGAIN!!!

I didn't know Chucko and Kennedy were Canucks..thanks!

[fishlips]

Wapiti - well put, appreciate your point. The gophs are definately MN thru and thru especially the past few years, and ND does what it has to to compete - MN does get to cherry pick the graduating class for their program for the most part. ND gets some very good MN talent as well as ND and the Winnipeg/Thunder Bay area which is in their

back yard...nothing wrong with that, as long as they also feature local (by local, I mean ND/MN) talent also.

[kaz2611]

this name changing is ridiculous fighting sioux fighting illini fighting irish .This should be no big deal those names amongst names such as cleveland idians florida state seminoles pittsburgh pirates dallas cowboys none of them are offensive to people so why are they not pushing for the removal of just "FIGHTING" in the name. Now washington redskins maybe is offensive or perhaps it represents a bunch of sunburnt white folk, perhaps they change their name to the washington foreskins to represent some of the p***ks we have in congress.

[MarchelRipley1]

How many times does Boston College have to beat suzzie in the BIG ones to have legal say in new logo's?

[Jarrod32]

North Dakota, NCAA Reach Out-Of-Court Settlement In Nickname Dispute

by Patrick C. Miller/USCHO Arena Reporter

GRAND FORKS, N.D. (Oct. 26) — The NCAA and the state of North Dakota have agreed to an out-of-court settlement over the use of the University of North Dakota’s Fighting Sioux nickname and logo.

The agreement gives UND three years to obtain permission to use the nickname from two Sioux tribal governments within the state on the Standing Rock and Spirit Lake reservations. After both sides sign the settlement as expected, the lawsuit will be dismissed with prejudice, according to North Dakota Attorney General Wayne Stenehjem.

“We have today before us a dynamic in terms of a change in public policy that’s being brought forward,” said William Goetz, North Dakota University System chancellor. “This is the recognition of the tribes and how they will be given an opportunity to weigh in on this issue, as should be the case.”

If the university fails to gain approval from the namesake tribes, it must either adopt a new nickname or be subject to an NCAA policy that prevents schools with American Indian nicknames, imagery and mascots from displaying them at the association’s championship events and prohibits the schools from hosting such events.

Meeting in Grand Forks, the North Dakota State Board of Higher Education unanimously approved a 12-page settlement agreement after meeting behind closed doors in executive session with Stenehjem, who represented the state in court. During a public meeting, the attorney general outlined the agreement before it was voted on with little discussion.

In comments following the meeting, Stenehjem said, “If we hadn’t reached this settlement, we faced the very realistic prospect that if we would win the lawsuit, the NCAA would amend its bylaws, in which case the university would then have to decide whether to comply with the bylaws.” Even if the state won the lawsuit and the NCAA didn’t change its bylaws, he believed the issue would be far from settled.

“We’re back to the same vitriolic situation that we were in and have been in for the last several years,” Stenehjem noted. “I think it’s important that we at least go to the tribal governments and ask them how we can perhaps use the nickname and the logo in a respectful way that’s beneficial to everybody.”

Board president John Paulsen said, “This is not a perfect solution, but given the way Attorney General Stenehjem outlined the facts and the realities of what might happen in the future, this settlement is clearly the best we could hope for.”

As part of the agreement, the NCAA must make a public announcement saying that it recognizes UND’s “many programs and outreach activities to the Native American community and surrounding areas” and that the university is “a national leader in offering educational programs to Native Americans.”

The statement also says that while the NCAA believes “as a general proposition that the use of Native American names and imagery can create a hostile or abusive environment in collegiate athletics,” it does not “make any other finding about the environment on UND’s campus.”

Paulsen views this language as the single most important aspect of the settlement.

“The University of North Dakota deserves that acknowledgement by the NCAA, and it cheers me immensely that all these programs the university has had in place for so many years are being recognized,” he said. “Any suggestion that this institution has ever, as a matter of policy, been hostile or abusive is simply wrong and it needed to be corrected. This settlement makes that correction.”

An NCAA news release says that by settling the case, the association “is not reversing its policy or its commitment to eliminate Native American nicknames and imagery from championship events. The settlement is consistent with the NCAA’s firm belief that Native American nicknames and imagery have no place in intercollegiate athletics.”

Bernard Franklin, NCAA Senior Vice-President for Governance, Membership, Education and Research Services, said, “One fundamental purpose of the policy was and is to listen to the Native American community and the NCAA sought input from them during the settlement negotiations. The settlement confirms that the Sioux people — and no one else — should decide whether and how their name should be used.”

In August 2005, the NCAA Executive Committee implemented a policy against UND and 18 other member schools deemed to use “hostile and abusive” American Indian nicknames, imagery and/or mascots. (UND has no mascot.) Five schools were exempted from policy after receiving approval from local namesake tribes. They are the Florida State Seminoles, the Central Michigan Chippewas, the Utah Utes, the Catawba Indians and the Mississippi College Choctaws.

The Bradley University Braves were placed on a five-year watch list. Other schools elected to comply with the NCAA policy.

After exhausting the appeals process, the state of North Dakota filed a lawsuit against the NCAA in October 2006 on behalf of UND and the state’s board of higher education. The suit alleged that the association had breached its contract with UND by failing to follow its own guidelines, bylaws and constitution; violated statutes requiring good faith and fair dealing; and engaged in unlawful restraint of trade by using its monopoly position in college athletics.

About a month after the suit was filed, Northeast Central District Court Judge Lawrence Jahnke granted a preliminary injunction that prevented the NCAA from enforcing the policy against UND. The case had been scheduled for a jury trial in Grand Forks beginning next month.

Jahnke repeatedly urged the two parties to settle the dispute out of court, at one point noting that combined attorney costs for both sides had reached $2 million. North Dakota’s case was funded entirely with private donations.

As details about the settlement began to leak out through the news media Thursday night, online comments from Sioux sports fans ranged from angry to philosophical to being resigned at losing the Fighting Sioux nickname.

Some advocated the end of all UND programs and opportunities for American Indian students if the two Sioux tribes didn’t grant approval. However, UND spokesperson Peter Johnson said that wouldn’t happen.

“Whatever the resolution is after three years, there are still going to be lots of very good American Indian programs at UND. There’s still going to be an emphasis on serving American Indian students,” he said.

Johnson said the discussions about the future of the nickname and logo with the two Sioux tribes in the state could serve to further strengthen UND’s American Indian programs.

“That’s part of the good that will come out of these conversations,” he said. “It won’t just be about the nickname and the logo. It will be about how we can continue to work together in all kinds of areas.”

Stenehjem said he believes those conversations should occur at the highest levels of state and tribal governments.

“A dialogue is something that needs to happen with top officials,” he explained. “I don’t anticipate a one-way discussion. There are people of good conscience on both sides of the issue.”

[LMITOUT]

Siouxage