What do you heat your home with?

[luckey]

Lots of interesting combinations here. I use natural gas and have a fire place. The fire place is used a couple evenings during the week and maybe one weekend day every other week. A year ago this spring I replaced my 23 year old furnace with a new 96% efficient, dual stage, variable speed DC fan furnace. My gas usage was cut by 40%. This is actual gas usage, not cost. If you factor in the water heater and drier (which didn't change), the gas used to heat the house was cut in half. In addition, the electric cost was reduced because the DC fan motor uses considerable less power than an AC motor. Last years actual costs for my 2500 sq foot walkout rambler with 2x4 walls.

Total gas cost = $696.00 or $58.00/month

Gas cost for dryer and hot water = $240.00 or $20/month

Total heat cost= $456.00 or $38/month (averaged over 12 mos)

I know this goes beyound "what heat source do you use" but just in case someone is on the fence about upgrading to a high efficence funace, maybe this will help.

[spudhauler]

I bought a corn stove last year and I couldn't be happier. My natural gas bill in the worst month went from $300 down to $50. Plus I did burn $60 worth of corn that month. So really from $300 to $110 but my hot water also comes from natural gas. Like a previous post I also work for a farmer in the fall and recieve some corn in form of payment. Corn does have some small inconviences, but in my opinion it is a heck of a lot easier than cutting your own wood, and it is a renewable fuel in 1 yr. Mr. Natural Gas Man even came to my house, to see if something was wrong with the meter. I really enjoyed showing him my stove and then I told him "NO SOUP FOR YOU" and showed him the door!

[FOOT]

I use to heat my home with wood. I had a rambler w/ 2 fireplaces - one up/one down. I never turned on the heat as I would go through 6 - 10 cord of wood per year.

I was lucky enough to get some large oak logs that I would put on when I went to sleep and they would last all night. It would keep the house nice and warm. Did this for 7 - 8 years.

Now since I no longer have that home I use city gas including the fireplace. The gas fireplace was a concession to the wife. I wanted another wood fireplace.

Give a little - take a little.

[Tully]

Geo-Thermal,

2600 sq foot split level, we have never paid over $35 for month in the winter, works great for air in the summer too.

The house was a year old and it was already installed. The cost of heating was a main point we could justify stepping up to that price of house. We are very happy with it.

Tully

[SCUMFROG]

I have the old water heat, I hate it. I would like to convert the house to forced air with central air. I was thinking about a corn burner can this be done and were could I find some one to do it?

[mtreno]

Geo-Thermal?

ok i am a pretty smart guy and have the basic idera how this works but i am real curious -

here is what i know - a big set of pipes running say 10 feet or so under the ground - thus where the water is heated slash cooled after being pumped into the house. once in the house it goes thru some sort of boiler type settup. now in the summer that water is coming out at say 55 degrees and i can see how you could produce cold air from that. thus heating the water. and then sending it back thru the pipes to cool off again. but in the winter that water would still be coming out at the same temp of 55. is there a way they pull the heat out from the water and build it up somewhere? is there i friction type deal going on here? how does this thing work???

i have a boiler run off natural gas. the thing is over 50 years old.... the pump went out once last year when i was out of town and had a 479 gas bill that month. need a new boiler bad. this Geo-Thermal deal seems to be the way to go if a guy was building new or had a cabin up north.

thanks

[mklem24]

On the corn stoves - did it affect your insurance like wood does?? And how long do they burn -- like for example - do you load it up once a day - 10 times a day - how does that all work?

[Gadgetman]

mtreno, regarding your question. I am not a hvac guy at all so will give you my laymans explaination of how the geo works. Mine circulates pressurized gas thru a large maze of copper pipes buried in my yard about 10' below ground where the temp. is pretty much constant. This is where is gets tricky, in the winter the gas comes into the house to a unit about the size of a dishwasher and additional pressure is put on it which makes the gas boil, thus generating heat. In the summer the reverse happens, pressure is relieved on the gas and it gets really cold. Said gas circulates thru a couple of things that look pretty much like a car radiator and a fan blows thru them to move the cool or hot air thru the house. The whole system is basically the tubes in the ground, the radiators and a compressor.As for the gas and pressure deal, I may have the pressure for heat/cool cycle turned around but you get the idea. In addition, they tell me that by running my AC in the summer that it essentially takes the heat out of my house and parks it in the ground and makes the whole system run more effiecient in the winter heating mode. I also agree with Tully when he said that the heating system in his house allowed him to spend a little more on a home and less on energy to heat it. Its hard to compare one houses heating bill to another because of all the variables but after seeing what my brothers and parents and some friends pay for heating I am very happy with my heating costs. I suppose I should add that our home is 13 years old has 2 x 6 walls and is very well insulated. We do have a ton of large windows as we are on a lake and want to enjoy the view from every room

[ccarlson]

I also use a geo thermal system. Florida Heat pump to be specific. It heats and cools. I really like it after 4 years of use. My builder said I would get rid of it after one winter but he was wrong.

Mine is a "pump and dump" system, meaning it uses well water which runs through a compressor system (thus either the heating or cooling effect) and then pumps the water over the hill into a wetland. I live in the country so that is not a problem. In the winter the run off flows out a pipe gravity fed and runs down the hill towards the swamp. By the end of the winter there is a build up of ice about 8" thick but it's in the woods and is not in the way at all. The deer and pets love it because they always have fresh water available.

The pump and dump is considerably less expensive and intrusive to your yard than the self contained system the other fellow explained. No underground pipes buries whatso ever in my yard.

My system is a forced air but you can also do in floor heat or a combo system of in floor heat in the lowest level and forced air in the upper floors.

The air conditioning works great and it's all in the same unit, just flip the switch to cooling and its good to go.

ccarlson

[spudhauler]

mklem24,

the corn stove did not increase my insurance, they are considered much safer than wood stoves. I load my stove once a day unless it is -20 than perhaps twice day. It uses about 1 bushel of corn a day (56 lbs). Right now the October cash corn price in my town is $1.65 per bushel. It is very easy to maintain and clean, it takes me 2 minutes a day. Even my wife enjoys tending to it while I am on a fishing trip or two.

[Farley]

We just burn paper money. It's cheaper than paying a gas bill.

[MIKE IN lINO III]

For the guys using the Geo Thermal units.... Do you remember the approx cost of the system? All this talk of high bills has me looking at alternative ways to heat/cool my house.

Mike

[Mark Christianson]

I cant really say what I paid, because a friend was the sales manager for the company....

And honestly, I dont know the retail cost of the units.

The brand I have is Econar. Their main office is in Elk River, MN.

A couple things to keep in mind with a geo thermal.

I have an open loop system. Basically pull up well water, and eject it out to go back in the ground. Not a good option if you live in a residential area.

The other option is a closed loop system. Basically its attached at the heat pump from the exit point, goes through loops that are buried underground, and comes back into the input of the heat pump. Its got an antifreeze of sorts that it circulates. The bad part of a closed loop is that you need your yard torn up so they can bury the "loops" underground. And Its several feet down. Very intrusive if you have an existing home. And much more expensive than an open loop system.

I wanna say the open loop type system for an average sized house is in the 8-9 grand price range. Also keep in mind, with these you dont need a central air unit because they also cool the house.

[fishermn]

Mtreno and Gadgetman, I too have a geothermal heatpump, and have similar heating / cooling costs. I have a 3200 sq. ft. house, and the system works flawlessly to heat/cool year around. However, here's a bit of clarification regarding how the system works:

Most heat pumps actually have two closed loop systems for transfering the heat from the ground to the house. One loop is a completely sealed system containg a refrigerant gas (this is inside the compressor in the house). The other system is typically a closed loop system consisting of large coils of plastic tubing buried in the ground, and connected back to the compressor. This loop is commonly filled with a water/glycol mix. (there are also other ways to do this, with open loops, like the pump-n-dump system mentioned in another post) The unit inside your house is a compressor that works essentially the same way your refrigerator works. In the winter (heating mode) , the heat pump compresses the gas which results in the gas heating up, the heated gas then passes through the heat exchanger where it transfers heat into the house. (either via a fan/radiator for forced air systems or via a gas/water heat exchanger for hydronic systems). The gas then passes through an expansion valve which reduces the pressure. As the pressure is reduced, the temperature of the gas drops significantly (to about 10 - 15 F in my system). This cold gas is passed through another heat exchanger which transfers heat from the ground loop system to the gas, and warms the gas back up. During this process, the water in the gound loop system is being circulated so that the heat from the ground is re-warming the cold gas. This is where the energy transfer from the ground to the house occurs.

My system actually has both a forced air system, and a hydronic system, all in one unit. So, my house has both forced air (for the upper levels, and for cooling in the summer) and hydronic slab heat for the below grade levels.

For most systems, the efficiency is around 300%. In other words you get 3X more heating out of the system than what you put into the system in electrical energy. For my 3200 sq. ft. house, my heat pump draw is about 6 kW. That is the equivalent of 3 or 4 baseboard heaters.

Overall I am really happy with the heatpump. If you have enough property and can afford the up front cost, the payback period can be as little as 3 - 5 years.

The typical cost for a 5Ton compressor was around $9K, when I bought mine in 2001. However, you also have to consider the cost of excavating a 20 x 80 hole 8 ft deep. In my situation, my building contactor already had large equipment on site, so they had the hole dug and the tubing installed in less than one day, so the cost was minimal.

[ccarlson]

The cost of my Florida Heat pump unit itself was only about $5,800 if I remember right. Add in the installation and materials for the heat ducts, plumbing required etc, and the total was about $9-10K. I'm going from memory though but I can tell you that I also got two other bids when I built my house for propane gas furnaces and an electric air conditioning unit and the cost of the heat pump system was less than $2,000 more than both of these bids. In the four years I have been running it, I have well recovered that cost already. I heat and cool 3500 sq. feet, half of which is the unfinished basement. I have only insulated my walk out (stick built wall) in the basement. The rest of the block walls are not even insulated until I finish the basement next year. Even with this important factor, the highest heating bill I have ever paid is about $120 a month during very cold, windy conditions. The mistake I made is that I decided to not go with dual fuel electric. I should have since I have a gas fireplace. The cost would have been about half of what I am paying but I didn't want to worry about having the dual fuel go off in a cold spell.

I also should have gone in floor heat in the basement.

One plus is that my heat pump also has a line that runs through my 120 gallon water heater and it partially heats that water as well. My off peak electric bill for the water heater is about $3-$7 per month depending on how much I am running my heat pump.

ccarlson

[backlash 1]

Valv,

If you were to put this furnace in your house today, I would guess it would be about 3 times more expensive than a normal gas furnace. But last time I looked we were at 2.8cents per kw for water heating and about 3.3 per kw for heating. We even have in floor heating in the lower level also. I think anyone who has off peak prices available to them should check into this.

[Gadgetman]

Mike, I dont recall what it cast as we built the house 13 years ago, tho if I had to guess I would say maybe $8-9000. It was a chunk but has certainly paid for itself. I have a unit that is from Econar also, tho at tht time I think that they had a different name. Fishermn, you did a much better job of explaining than I ever could, tho I dont believe the systems of the vintage that I have have the glycol field. I watched themput it in and only saw one huge web of copper pipe. I also seem to recall the 300% efficient number being in the literature. It certainly helps to be on off peak also with the dual fuel deal. Highly recommend off peak to everybody that can get it.

[buzzsaw]

Love

[rascalP]

LP. Pre-buy once a year. 1300 gal @ $1.45/gal should take us to next Aug. A little cheaper than gas, but you have to have the up-front money. I sure like the idea of geo-thermal, but don't know if a retro install would be worth it. Though, if a whole bunch of us did it, it would bring prices down for those that don't have it .

[Poutwhacker]

Backlash

I am looking at this same type of unit. What brand do you have? Can you contact me with details? I live in Walker.

email me at: [email protected]

Thanks

[mrjigger]

I was also looking at buying a corn/pellet stove for alternative heating source. Will the corn stove save me money on my heating costs? I did some calling around and it seems the going rate for 50 lbs of corn is about $4. after reading the previous posts, I can expect to burn about 50lbs of corn a day. thats about $120 a month, plus whatever my gas bill is. I have a natural gas water heater and dryer. Doesn't seem like it would save me much money, my gas bill last winter was around $200.00/month. I just called a local farm supply store, is there anyplace I could get the corn cheaper?

[zebco4040]

A little Google and I found a pretty good video of how it works. I know I will be looking at more heating options when we build / buy new in a few years. I grew up (I am 28 now) with the wood stove, it was wonderful, but as we all got older and there was less time to get up north to cut wood, we had to go to furnace. My parents never had a heat bill (basically). I want to put a wood stove in my basement of our new house (when time comes.)

http://www.geoexchange.org/about/movie.htm

[spudhauler]

mrjigger,

you need to buy the corn directly from a farmer. Simply take a drive through the country side and pull into a farm. There is 99% chance that the farm grows corn in MN. Explain to the farmer why you want to buy the corn, and he will likely be willing to help you. It's a bit of a pain for me to unload it but I have the farmer fill the back of my pickup full. It will hold around 40 bushels, then i scoop out into 50lb paper bags. and store it.

[backlash 1]

poutwacker, you have mail.

[mrjigger]

spudhauler,

thanks for the tip. I didnt know you could just use corn directly from a farmer. The guy at the farm supply store said the corn he sells is cleaned and sifted so it would burn cleaner. My wifes uncle is a farmer, I bet he would sell the corn to me pretty cheap.