Is This Legal?

[gunflint]

Can you remove the hooks from a crankbait and cast or troll in the lake before opener? I have respooled 8 rods and I would like to test the line and the reels before opener.

[M.T. Bucket]

Sure--for all practical purposes you could be fishing for rock bass or buffalo or anything else that's open year round. No law against going hookless to my knowledge.

Any other opinions?

[katoguy]

Absolutely not. Don't try to split hairs. If you intentionally try to catch fish out of season it is illegal. This is black and white and "trying to catch rock bass" will not stand up legally or morally.

[muskybuck]

How can you be intentionally trying to catch fish with no hooks??? Would it be against the law to try and find out how certain cranks are responding to certain lines at certain speeds with no hooks on them. Just asking.

[fishyguy]

Musky,

You are right that you will not catch fish without hooks but you not only be educating yourself on your tackle and line but could also be construed as educating yourself on the fishing as you certainly could get strikes. I do not know if that would be legal or not. I don't think I would do it without talking with my area DNR office first.

Let us know what you find out if you call.

[muskybuck]

I suppose PETA would call it harrassing fish. Of coarse just taking your boat out and looking at fish with your sonar would be educating yourself also. I would make a phone call to the DNR office also.

Oh by the way, I heard on the radio the other day that PETA considered it a big victory that they talked Mercedes Benz in to offering cloth and imitation leather seat covers instead of only leather. I supposed they thought the slaughter houses were killing these animals just for the car manufacturers and no other reason and that they just saved a bunch of animals.

[slick814]

I'd just go to the DNR HSOforum and email them this question. They've always been fast torespond to my questions. That way you'll know for sure.

One thing to think about, though, if you're trying to check how certain crankbaits respond at different speeds, depths they run at, etc., is that they are designed to run with the hooks on them. They may respond a little differently without the hooks.

[gunflint]

I didn't notice anything in the regs that says I can't go out before opener with my sonar or camera. I've done that. But the truth of the matter is I'm checking out structure, weed lines, etc. Really what good would it do to mark fish a week before opener. They won't be there in a week anyway.

[katoguy]

So in your line of thinking, since you are not trying to catch fish, well, then you don't need a license?

A couple years back, a friend of mine took his youngster fishing from shore. Since it was prior to walleye opener he (dad) did not have his license yet (boy was young and did not require a fishing license). His boy was targeting crappie with a jig & twister. After several casts the boy had to run across the road to answer the call of nature so he handed his rod to pops. Pops left the jig dangle in the water as he watched the way the twister was acting. This was next to shore in inches of water. Sure enough a warden happened by and requested his license. Resulted in fine even thow he technically wasn't trying to catch any fish.

[Rip_Some_Lip]

Quote:

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So in your line of thinking, since you are not trying to catch fish, well, then you don't need a license?

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Are you saying that you need a fishing license to go out with a camera and vexilar(without fishing poles) to explore a lake? I would have to argue that, but I may be wrong.

[katoguy]

Not saying that at all. I never referred to a camera or sonar.

[gunflint]

But pops did have a line in the water with a hook on. That to me does constitute fishing. My question is that if I have no other tackle in the boat and just one large floating crankbait with no hooks, can I get popped? Technicaly I'm not fishing because it is impossible to catch fish without a hook.

[katoguy]

Not really impossible. Used to catch sunnies off the dock with string.

I just think that most wardens would write you up. It is tough to fight the system. When in doubt, don't do it.

[riverrat56]

I would have to say it would be legal, you are not trying to catch fish, there is really no feasable way to catch them and i do believe the regulations say that you need a hook on the line for it to be a line.

If in doubt just use a black casting plug if all you want to do is test your rod and reels this should be fine for that. If that is illegal and you get fined for it i will sell all my fishing stuff and take up golf.

RR56

[matthothand]

I believe riverrat is correct. By definition, a hook is required to make a lure or bait. I have been checked while using spinner blades on my tip-up line while pike fishing. This was simply an experiment to see if adding flash above the live bait would atract fish from further away in murky or stained water or if it caused fish to react in the opposite manner. I believe I had anywhere between two to five spinner blades each attached with a clevis and splitshot evenly spaced on my nylon line. Since the only hooks on the line were attached to my leader and not near the remaining blades above, the blades were not considered 'lures' and the CO agreed that I was in compliance with MN regulations. Spinner blades, without hooks, are just a shaped piece of metal. A plug or crankbait is just a piece of wood or plastic until you add hooks. Then it becomes a 'lure' and you are limited to how many you may have in the water. With all that said, wardens/CO's have the jurisdiction to write citations if they feel a law is being violated. Even if someone thinks that they have not broke any regulations they may wind up with a citation. Of course appeals could be made, but that would take a fair deal of time (fishing time?). On another note, I have been out perch fishing before walleye opener and one day filled out on near jumbo sized perch. I brought a friend with on the next day and we couldn't catch a single perch. We did catch quite a few walleyes. ALL of the fish were released IMMEDIATELY and we even modified our tackle (tied on circle hooks, set hooks quicker, etc.) so that if we hooked another walleye it would barely be hooked in lip at the corner of the mouth making for quick and safe hook removal. Being a popular fishing spot there was a warden present while all of this was going on. He knew that we were truly fishing for big perch (he had checked me the previous week) and said we could keep fishing even though we caught no perch at that point but had reeled in many walleyes. "Just put 'em back safely and think 'perch'." is what he told us. That is one example of catching a fish during it's closed season and getting no fines. If a season is open for any species on a body of water, you can fish. The concept is that you cannot KEEP fish during a closed season or INTENTIONALLY fish for them, which brings my post to it's close. You cannot be intentionally fishing for ANY species if you do not have a 'lure' (hook) attached to your line.

[Moose-Hunter]

This is another one I believe will be up to the disgression of the C.O.

One method I use when targeting early season transitional crappies is to slowly back troll small jig/minnow combos through suspended schools, over deep water. To an avid crappie angler, this is an accepted method. To someone less "slab savey", it may appear I'm back trolling for walleye. While using this method on a local lake last spring, I was approached by a CO and was told that very thing. The C.O. also told me that it could be defined as "harassment of the species" and I could be fined. Apparently, due to my chosen method, it could be looked at as if I was "probing" for walleye while not necessarily "targeting" them. Kind of like prefishing for a tourney. With the tourney being walleye opener.

Basically, it's all up to the C.O. If they feel you're INTENTIONALLY targeting or "probing" for a species out of season, hooks or no hooks, you may be cited. While the above scenerio did include "hooks", and your "hookless" crankbait/casting weight would not, I still feel you'd be walking a VERY fine line. (forgive the pun..)

[CSTPETER]

On a deal like this I would simply ask myself if I thought it was right or wrong. If you don't have a problem morally or ethically then do it...Frankly all of this discussion over wether or not "the man" thinks this is O.K. is a bit frightening. just use your best judgement.

[slick814]

I emailed the DNR this morning.. here is the reply.

"As long as there are no hooks or any way to catch or snag a fish, you can do that."

So, I guess that it's legal... I won't get into the ethics, as I don't know the exact intent you have. If it's just to try out a few new lures to see how they act in different conditions, then I don't have a problem with it. If it's to see if fish will hit certain lures, then I do.

[jigginjim]

I recall a few years back. A guy from lakeville was fishing a 3/8oz. spinner bait and catching alot bass releasing them all. He was cinted for targeting a speices during a closed season. I learned he went to court, a won.

He told the judge he was fishing for trophy crappies.

if that thinks he going to catch a trophy crappie in

lake marion, Lakeville he would be fishing for many years.

[ELY]

Gunflint,

I think you opened up a can of worms on this one... hee..hee

I always test out my walleye rig a couple weeks before season on the crappies and perch in the BW's . You can come up on Basswood with me and leave the hooks on your lure, because you can fish for northerns year round on half the lake. Might even snag a laker, since the Canadians don't close their season in the spring.

[Superduty]

Legal or not, I doubt your crankbaits would run true without the hooks. Something else to think about, I've witnessed a 4lb bass caught on a scumfrog that never had a hook in it. Believe it or not, the gap in the metal line tie actually hung up in the fishes mouth/skin. That fish held that bait and wouldn't let go. If it had opened its mouth it would have surely got free. What would you tell the CO if something similar happened while trolling cranks without hooks?

[cheektowaga]

Superduty, I've had this happen to me twice with small pike on spinnerbaits, got ahold of the blade and wouldn't let go.

Which brings me to my question for you all: I've gotten many dirty looks from people casting in shallower areas with spinnerbaits right after pike opener but before bass opener. This is a great area to target that time of year and a spinner is my best lure for it, but it is viewed by many as targeting bass during their spawn. I'm torn on how I feel about this because I am honestly targeting shallow pike, but I do know that there are bass in the area and will bite.

Any thoughts?

[gunflint]

I ran into the local C.O. this morning and according to him, slick814 is right on the money. As long as you are not targeting a species that is out of season, no laws are being broken.

[LocalGuide]

cheektowaga, I do the exact same thing as you. Its funny when you come into a bay and your throwing this spinnerbait and there's other boats watching you that kind of give you a different look. I just laugh at it because I know I'm not going for bass and I use spinnerbaits all season long for pike.

You should see them when I catch a keeper sized pike (I like the 22"-26") and throw them back when someones watching! Then its almost looks like I'm targeting bass but I'm really not. I'm just going for that nice 10lb+ pike.

But sometimes do feel bad like someones going to call me in or something for doing nothing wrong. But instead of being worried I just smile and laugh to myself knowing I'm fishing for that monster pike.

[cheektowaga]

Glad someone else is in my same boat (yes, pun intended)!

I caught my personal biggest pike this way outside of Monticello. Early season and it bit 1 foot off of shore in about 8" of water. 13 lber. I too am a C&Rer so I put all pike back and you're right, the looks keep coming.