Concrete Pour / Info

[lindy rig]

I'm currently putting up a 30x40 garage and working with a builder.

They poured the concrete floor about a week ago. We had frost the first night after pouring. Now I've seen several holes in the new floor as crews are in and out. A few are 3" wide by 1/2" deep. Even if they are dropping tools a new concrete floor shouldn't chip that easy should it?

I'll address it with the builder, but mainly wondering if I should be worried about the quality of the floor?

[KenM1987]

you'd have to drop one hell of a tool to take a 3" chip outta concrete.

[Surface Tension]

Sounds like surface flaking. Nobody wants that to happen but in your case its probably more of a cosmetic issue.

Talk with the builder.

[Cheers]

I do not think frost would be an issue . Cement cures for 28 days before it is done. During that time the chemical process generates heat , It would have to be a very heavy frost before it became an issue

[311Hemi]

Are these chips out of the concrete?

[lindy rig]

Good to know about the frost. I see construction going on all over including concrete work and foundations being built so I would figure these guys know what they are doing.

Yes, they are chips (shallow holes) in the concrete floor.

Talked to a buddy of mine who thinks it could be air bubbles. Is that what is meant by flaking?

[lindy rig]

Should also mention, that next morning after the pour they were out making the stress cuts in the floor so I went out to talk to the guy. Kind of got an odd vibe from the guy, he didn't want to say much but really only said that I would need to reseal it again next spring as the concrete now days with the additives would need maintenence.

Thought it was odd to tell me I would need to reseal a brand new floor....

[Surface Tension]

Flaking as in popped out from being froze.

If it had a blanket then yes there would be enough heat to keep it from freezing.

A tarp covering it might be enough. No tarp it'll freeze. If there was frost on the slab then you know.

[lindy rig]

So basically they should have used a blanket, knowing there was a chance for frost

[Tom7227]

post some pics.

[delcecchi]

Where was it? Here in Rochester, we haven't had that hard a freeze yet. Nothing that would put a skim of ice on a bucket of water, for example. Further north, could be.

PS I wouldn't be happy to start out with a new concrete floor with big hunks out of it. Sounds like someone messed up somehow.

[jiggin9]

Id hold on to that check for now if I were you. It sounds like a finishing issue to me meaning its probably more cosmetic than structural. I'd guess the temp got a little colder than expected and it should of been covered. Make them make it right with you by either reducing payment or having them patch the holes until you are satisfied. The patch jobs will be noticeable long term though. Maybe have them re-seal it for you for no cost. Concrete is expensive. Paying someone to pour your concrete is really, really expensive.

[BSLNORTH]

Sounds to me like it could be a variation of problems. I don't the frost has anything to do with it. Either too much air was added to the concrete, maybe too much water, or a bad mix. It hasnt been cold enough to worry about covering concrete yet. Yes, with today's concrete, you should seal it every year for protection.

Do you know if there was an inspector on site at the time of the pour checking for air and slump?

[lindy rig]

This is a reputable builder FYI. Location is just north of the Twin Cities. The rest of the building looks good. Even the floor shape and design looks good (the stress cuts, floor drain, and slope). There have been several inspectors out at different points in the process, but I cannot say if there was an inspector present at the time of pour.

My buddy who is basically a general contractor said he thought they over-worked it and it got too hot, creating a popping effect.

This is the worst area (so far). There are a couple other smaller ones.

[lindy rig]

The builder said one of the framers shot some nails into the floor. Even if that were true, it doesn't explain why I am seeing new pitting almost everytime I go look at it.

Here are some recent pics

[lindy rig]

Some more pics

[lindy rig]

What do you guys think is an acceptable resolution?

Patch all the sizeable holes and then do a full epoxy job on the floor at no cost?

Discount in addition to the epoxy job?

Replace the whole floor?

[Sandmannd]

Builders always try to fix on the cheap. Patching and painting is cheap and won't last. Make them replace.

[delcecchi]

The builder said one of the framers shot some nails into the floor. Even if that were true, it doesn't explain why I am seeing new pitting almost everytime I go look at it.

I find it upsetting when a supposedly well thought of person who I am paying to do something looks me in the eye and lies. I don't know about you, but that sort of stuff makes me angry and much less likely to try to work something out.

Right now he is just trying to get out of someone having to spend a lot of money to fix an issue he or the subcontractor should have caught. Whoever has to fix it is going to eat quite an expense.

If it is continuing to pit, I don't see how patching the existing pits and putting a coating over it will stop anything.

[Surface Tension]

Could very well be the framer did it. Prolly making a header on the floor.

If I was running the crew I'd have pointed it out to you and apologized instead of letting you find it. 9 times out of 10 the home owner would brush it off.

Its cosmetic. Talk with the contractor and work something out that your both happy with.

[BuckSutherland]

Why is it automatically the fault of the builders??? Maybe they got sent a batch of shat from the cement plant. They could have done everything correctly and cause the batch was no good you are assuming they (builders) caused the problems. Perhaps you missed see some of the other cracks and pits before. Maybe right now it is as bad as it will be. I hope you do know its a real PITA to get a cement truck right now because of Ziggy's playhouse going up, RR issues, and barge issues. Maybe the plant cut some corners on you, and you are incorrectly blaming the builder, and maybe some donkey on the crew did shoot a couple nails into the floor framing something.

Talk it over with the guy and be civil about it. Its not like they poured it hoping there would be an issue with it. Replacement seems extremely childish and completely unreasonable.

[311Hemi]

Talk it over with the guy and be civil about it.

Replacement seems extremely childish and completely unreasonable.

I agree with talking with the builder about it and being civil about it until it's determined what caused it and what the possible solutions are.

However, it seems a little early to say that replacement seems childish and is unreasonable. If he gets a few more small areas that spall tomorrow or in the coming weeks what is the best solution to ensure it does not continue? Is there a solution out there that can guarantee it wont continue?

[delcecchi]

I agree it is always best to talk and be civil. Visual inspection should show whether the pit was made by a framing nail, or it is just some spalling. Are the pits in a line? or scattered around?

And if a guy hires a builder/general contractor, doesn't that contractor own the responsibility for assuring the job is done right, with the proper materials? Whose side is he on?

[BuckSutherland]

And if a guy hires a builder/general contractor, doesn't that contractor own the responsibility for assuring the job is done right, with the proper materials? Whose side is he on?

So now the contractor is supposed to go to the cement plant and tell them how to mix the concrete?? Actually going there is the only way to ensure that its done properly. Or should he take a sample as they are pouring and send it in for analysis??? Maybe he should go to the woods too when they are logging and make sure the correct trees are cut down. How about them certainteed shingles?? You think its the contractors of the world that caused them to curl, crack, and blister. Some of you guys have unreasonable expectations, and I feel sorry for the guys working for you.

[Big Dave2]

So now the contractor is supposed to go to the cement plant and tell them how to mix the concrete?? Actually going there is the only way to ensure that its done properly. Or should he take a sample as they are pouring and send it in for analysis??? Maybe he should go to the woods too when they are logging and make sure the correct trees are cut down. How about them certainteed shingles?? You think its the contractors of the world that caused them to curl, crack, and blister. Some of you guys have unreasonable expectations, and I feel sorry for the guys working for you.

If you buy a brand new combine from the local John Deere dealer and before you get 100 yards down the first field a front tire blows out due to manufacturer defect would it be unreasonable to take expect the dealer to replace the tire? After all, they did not manufacture the tire.

Just because the OP would hold the general contractor responsible for the bad cement floor doesn't mean that the contractor is ultimately responsible. The right thing to do for the contractor would be to fix the problem and collect reimbursement from the responsible party, whoever it is determined to be.