Posting Land/Handling Trespassers and Neighbors

[Coach1310]

Good day all. My Grandfather owns a piece of land close to home for us that he probably hasn't set foot on in 10 years. He bought it years ago, is not a hunter and he basically saw a long term investment in it. My Grandfather has basically made me the Leasee of the property and I can decide if anyone can hunt there or not. Fastforward to last year when an acquaitence wanted to take his son out there, I said not a problem, told him what I knew as far as the land, etc. He approached one of the neighbors to ask about parking off the side of his driveway approach. The neighbor said NO and said I've got guys hunting in there(pointing to my Grandfather's land) so don't mess it up for them. I would rather not wrap the entire piece of land in NO HUNTING or TRESPASSING signs, but in order to have some legal right to get trespassers removed, I have no choice, correct? How have others dealt with this situation. I don't want my family or friends at risk when out there hunting because many folks are out there without permission.

Thanks for any info/experience.

[harvey lee]

Good luck. I have dealt with trespassers for years in North Dakota and they are very hard to get rid of. Another issue is, you say yes to one and more than likely, he will let others come along, at least that has been my experience in the last 25 years. heck I had a group of guys that I asked to leave a few years back and they would not, yes, this did happen and I ended up calling the sheriff to come and ask them to leave.

I do allow 3-4 others in to hunt and they have been nothing short of perfect in regards to following all our rules. Always a few who have to spoil it for the rest of the hunters.

If the land is in Minnesota, the laws are very weak on fining trespassers, you turn them in if you are lucky enough to catch them and I believe the first fine is next to nothing.

If you do not want others in your woods, legally yes, you will have to post the land, then allow who you would like to hunt the woods and then hope for the best as far as others getting in there.

What I have done with some of the hunters I allow in, I ask them to write the vehicle license plate down if they see another in there. That does help some if you want to contact them.

95% of the hunters out there will abide by the posted signs, the others, well you simply have to deal with them. if you are in a very remote area with very little pressure, less issues for sure.

I will say this, if you do not want trespassers, you will need to post it and then prosecute them if caught. I tried to be the nice guy and tell them to please not come back, didn't work so well. After I prosecuted a few, I guess the word got out and we have far fewer incidents since.

[Jameson]

Post it and talk to the neighbors ASAP. Be courteous and allow them 7 days to remove their stands. Expect to have the property lines posted with neighboring hunters very willing to shoot into the woods they have been hunting for years.

[smsmith]

If YOU want to control who uses the land, you have no choice but to post it heavily and prosecute. Be prepared for plenty of "blowback" from those who've been treating it as their own. From my experience, it takes a full year of being a harda$$ and MOST IMPORTANTLY...being present on the land frequently.

FWIW...you won't be able to have anybody removed or prosecuted even though you may be "managing" the parcel. That would fall to the owner...your Grandfather. I suppose its possible there's some type of legal document/process out there that if both of you signed and had on record...YOU may be able to do those things. My folks had an issue with a guy riding his horse on their land. I caught him on trailcam a few times and talked with a local LEO. I couldn't have him ticketed (which I would have done), but my folks could. They decided to go the route of giving him a verbal warning via the LEO. It was effective.

[hockeybc69]

Did your Grandfather grant permission to the neighbors to be hunting in there?

Or is he completely in the dark about it?

I dont see what the big issue of putting up signs would be. I would get on that as soon as possible regardless of past history. Leave it unposted, and someone else might want to push their luck as well.

Post it.

[nofishfisherman]

You will for sure need to post the land if you want to keep others out. You will also likely need to look into some sort of legal authorization to act on behalf of your grandfather when dealing with trespassers. I'm thinking something like power of attorney type thing. Not sure if you could get something drawn up that would limit your power to only administering this land. Something to look into I suppose.

As far as dealing with the current trespassers. I would approach them politely and just let them know that the land they have been hunting is private land and has been for many years. Let them know that you are going to be posting the land and that you'll be using and hunting the land going forward and that you will grant written permission to a few others to do the same. Talk to them ASAP so that they still have enough time to secure new hunting spots for this season. I'd also give them X amount of time to go in and get their stands out. Just make sure to be polite and reasonable and maybe even a little empathetic to them. You'll have to remember that even if they are reasonable guys they just lost their hunting spot so they are going to be a little upset even though they shouldn't be too surprised. You'll be having to interact with these guys for years to come so it pays to get things started on the right foot despite the fact you are kicking them out of their spot.

[96trigger]

Couldn't he "lease" the land from his grandfather and gain rights to it?

[BLACKJACK]

Keeping local hunters off the land that they've been hunting for years, especially if you're not there very much, is a tough one!!! They'll just shift their hunting and drives to non-weekends.

You didn't say, how many acres is the piece of land?? The bigger the piece, the easier it is to keep them at bay.

How important is it really for you to keep trespassers off?? Is it just the principle of the whole deal or do you plan on hunting it yourself someday?? In other words, is it worth the aggravation?

Besides posting and talking to the local trespassers, I would start calling in the license plates of the offending hunters. Even if you can't prosecute them, getting a call from the local CO or sheriff's deputy will make most 'hunters' think twice the next time.

Good luck!!

[walleye365]

I dont understand this never have tresspassers if its not yours or you don't have permission to be there stay out period. This isn't there spot they don't have any right to it I don't care how long they have hunted there because they have done so illegally and fully aware of the fact so tuff for them. I agree be kind in dealing with them but firm and yes id get it posted ASAP. Good luck hope it works out for ya coach

[smsmith]

In MN if rec land isn't posted, it is legal to hunt/fish/trap it. The locals haven't been "trespassing" if the land doesn't have ag zoning and it isn't posted.

[walleyeking19]

In MN if rec land isn't posted, it is legal to hunt/fish/trap it. The locals haven't been "trespassing" if the land doesn't have ag zoning and it isn't posted.

Where did you find that info?

[smsmith]

Where did you find that info?

Scroll down to MN... http://realestate.findlaw.com/land-use-laws/select-state-laws-on-hunting-and-trespassing.html

Its also within the MN State statutes, but its not clearly stated (like most statutes)

[nofishfisherman]

In MN if rec land isn't posted, it is legal to hunt/fish/trap it. The locals haven't been "trespassing" if the land doesn't have ag zoning and it isn't posted.

[smsmith]

Page 6

Always ask permission before entering private land. Any entry onto

private property without permission is considered trespass. Landowners

may be able to pursue court action against trespassers whether the property

is posted or not.

That may be what the regs say, but its not what the state statutes say. If you want to have someone ticketed for trespassing, you better have the land posted...period. "Permission" to enter rec land that isn't posted is implied.

[nofishfisherman]

Can you post the actual statute as it is written. Your link only supports what is written in the regs book.

[smsmith]

Can you post the actual statute as it is written. Your link only supports what is written in the regs book.

Nah, I'll let you dig through the state statutes. The first sentence for MN under the link I posted is pretty clear I think

Law allows hunters to trespass unless no trespassing signs are posted along the boundaries every 1000 feet or less, or in wooded areas where boundaries are less clear, at intervals of 500 feet or less, or at the primary corners of each parcel of land and at access roads or trails at points of entrance. Furthermore, the law mandates that the lettering should be at least two inches high and the name and phone number of the landowner or occupant should be listed. Lands that are cropped or grazed and show signs of tillage, crops, crop residue, or fencing for livestock containment do not require posting of signs. Hunters must ask permission to enter these lands. A person on foot may, without permission of the owner, enter land to retrieve a wounded animal that was lawfully shot. The hunter must leave the land immediately after retrieving the wounded game. A person on foot may, without permission of the owner, enter private land without a firearm to retrieve a hunting dog. After retrieving the dog, the person must immediately leave the premises. - See more at: http://realestate.findlaw.com/land-use-l...h.qb9vH12u.dpuf

[jbell1981]

Here is the MN statue. I let you guys sort out what it means.

Quote:

609.605 TRESPASS.

Subdivision 1.Misdemeanor. (a) The following terms have the meanings given them for purposes of this section.

(1) "Premises" means real property and any appurtenant building or structure.

(2) "Dwelling" means the building or part of a building used by an individual as a place of residence on either a full-time or a part-time basis. A dwelling may be part of a multidwelling or multipurpose building, or a manufactured home as defined in section 168.002, subdivision 16.

(3) "Construction site" means the site of the construction, alteration, painting, or repair of a building or structure.

(4) "Owner or lawful possessor," as used in paragraph (, clause (9), means the person on whose behalf a building or dwelling is being constructed, altered, painted, or repaired and the general contractor or subcontractor engaged in that work.

(5) "Posted," as used:

(i) in paragraph (, clause (4), means the placement of a sign at least 8-1/2 inches by 11 inches in a conspicuous place on the exterior of the building, or in a conspicuous place within the property on which the building is located. The sign must carry a general notice warning against trespass;

(ii) in paragraph (, clause (9), means the placement of a sign at least 8-1/2 inches by 11 inches in a conspicuous place on the exterior of the building that is under construction, alteration, or repair, or in a conspicuous place within the area being protected. If the area being protected is less than three acres, one additional sign must be conspicuously placed within that area. If the area being protected is three acres but less than ten acres, two additional signs must be conspicuously placed within that area. For each additional full ten acres of area being protected beyond the first ten acres of area, two additional signs must be conspicuously placed within the area being protected. The sign must carry a general notice warning against trespass; and

(iii) in paragraph (, clause (10), means the placement of signs that:

(A) carry a general notice warning against trespass;

( display letters at least two inches high;

© state that Minnesota law prohibits trespassing on the property; and

(D) are posted in a conspicuous place and at intervals of 500 feet or less.

(6) "Business licensee," as used in paragraph (, clause (9), includes a representative of a building trades labor or management organization.

(7) "Building" has the meaning given in section 609.581, subdivision 2.

( A person is guilty of a misdemeanor if the person intentionally:

(1) permits domestic animals or fowls under the actor's control to go on the land of another within a city;

(2) interferes unlawfully with a monument, sign, or pointer erected or marked to designate a point of a boundary, line or a political subdivision, or of a tract of land;

(3) trespasses on the premises of another and, without claim of right, refuses to depart from the premises on demand of the lawful possessor;

(4) occupies or enters the dwelling or locked or posted building of another, without claim of right or consent of the owner or the consent of one who has the right to give consent, except in an emergency situation;

(5) enters the premises of another with intent to take or injure any fruit, fruit trees, or vegetables growing on the premises, without the permission of the owner or occupant;

(6) enters or is found on the premises of a public or private cemetery without authorization during hours the cemetery is posted as closed to the public;

(7) returns to the property of another with the intent to abuse, disturb, or cause distress in or threaten another, after being told to leave the property and not to return, if the actor is without claim of right to the property or consent of one with authority to consent;

(8) returns to the property of another within one year after being told to leave the property and not to return, if the actor is without claim of right to the property or consent of one with authority to consent;

(9) enters the locked or posted construction site of another without the consent of the owner or lawful possessor, unless the person is a business licensee;

(10) enters the locked or posted aggregate mining site of another without the consent of the owner or lawful possessor, unless the person is a business licensee; or

(11) crosses into or enters any public or private area lawfully cordoned off by or at the direction of a peace officer engaged in the performance of official duties. As used in this clause: (i) an area may be "cordoned off" through the use of tape, barriers, or other means conspicuously placed and identifying the area as being restricted by a peace officer and identifying the responsible authority; and (ii) "peace officer" has the meaning given in section 626.84, subdivision 1. It is an affirmative defense to a charge under this clause that a peace officer permitted entry into the restricted area.

Subd. 2.Gross misdemeanor. Whoever trespasses upon the grounds of a facility providing emergency shelter services for battered women, as defined under section 611A.31, subdivision 3, or of a facility providing transitional housing for battered women and their children, without claim of right or consent of one who has right to give consent, and refuses to depart from the grounds of the facility on demand of one who has right to give consent, is guilty of a gross misdemeanor.

Subd. 3. [Repealed, 1993 c 326 art 2 s 34]

Subd. 4.Trespasses on school property. (a) It is a misdemeanor for a person to enter or be found in a public or nonpublic elementary, middle, or secondary school building unless the person:

(1) is an enrolled student in, a parent or guardian of an enrolled student in, or an employee of the school or school district;

(2) has permission or an invitation from a school official to be in the building;

(3) is attending a school event, class, or meeting to which the person, the public, or a student's family is invited; or

(4) has reported the person's presence in the school building in the manner required for visitors to the school.

( It is a misdemeanor for a person to be on the roof of a public or nonpublic elementary, middle, or secondary school building unless the person has permission from a school official to be on the roof of the building.

© It is a gross misdemeanor for a group of three or more persons to enter or be found in a public or nonpublic elementary, middle, or secondary school building unless one of the persons:

(1) is an enrolled student in, a parent or guardian of an enrolled student in, or an employee of the school or school district;

(2) has permission or an invitation from a school official to be in the building;

(3) is attending a school event, class, or meeting to which the person, the public, or a student's family is invited; or

(4) has reported the person's presence in the school building in the manner required for visitors to the school.

(d) It is a misdemeanor for a person to enter or be found on school property within one year after being told by the school principal or the principal's designee to leave the property and not to return, unless the principal or the principal's designee has given the person permission to return to the property. As used in this paragraph, "school property" has the meaning given in section 152.01, subdivision 14a, clauses (1) and (3).

(e) A school principal or a school employee designated by the school principal to maintain order on school property, who has reasonable cause to believe that a person is violating this subdivision may detain the person in a reasonable manner for a reasonable period of time pending the arrival of a peace officer. A school principal or designated school employee is not civilly or criminally liable for any action authorized under this paragraph if the person's action is based on reasonable cause.

(f) A peace officer may arrest a person without a warrant if the officer has probable cause to believe the person violated this subdivision within the preceding four hours. The arrest may be made even though the violation did not occur in the peace officer's presence.

Subd. 5.Certain trespass on agricultural land. (a) A person is guilty of a gross misdemeanor if the person enters the posted premises of another on which cattle, bison, sheep, goats, swine, horses, poultry, farmed cervidae, farmed ratitae, aquaculture stock, or other species of domestic animals for commercial production are kept, without the consent of the owner or lawful occupant of the land.

( "Domestic animal," for purposes of this section, has the meaning given in section 609.599.

© "Posted," as used in paragraph (a), means the placement of a sign at least 11 inches square in a conspicuous place at each roadway entry to the premises. The sign must provide notice of a biosecurity area and wording such as: "Biosecurity measures are in force. No entrance beyond this point without authorization." The sign may also contain a telephone number or a location for obtaining such authorization.

(d) The provisions of this subdivision do not apply to employees or agents of the state or county when serving in a regulatory capacity and conducting an inspection on posted premises where domestic animals are kept.

[smsmith]

Even though my place "shows signs of fencing for livestock containment" I made sure to post it at least every 500'. My place used to have livestock on it before I bought it, but it no longer does. My guess is that since it doesn't...a judge wouldn't enforce a ticket written for trespassing here....without the additional fact that my place is indeed posted. I don't know why a guy would take a chance personally. If an owner wants to enforce trespassing laws...posting that land is a no brainer. An even more important point..if an owner wants to prevent trespassing from ever happening...posting it is a real no brainer.

[aanderud]

[quote name="Coach1310"]I would rather not wrap the entire piece of land in NO HUNTING or TRESPASSING signs

[nofishfisherman]

Here is the actual statue regarding hunters and trespassing.

The more I read it the more I see various ways of interpreting it. No matter what your view on it is you could probably find evidence supporting your opinion.

The one thing that bugs me about how its written is that it doesn't explicitly grant hunters rights to trespass AND hunt on unposted land but it also doesn't explicitly restrict it either unless I am missing a section.

It does give two exceptions where you CAN legally access unposted land without permission so because of that I assume there must be other times when you CAN'T access unposted land without permission otherwise what point is there to explicitly list exceptions. But its not clearly stated.

Only thing that is clear is that posting the land is the only way to completely restrict access.

Quote:

97B.001 TRESPASS.

Subdivision 1.Agricultural land definition. For purposes of this section, "agricultural land" means land:

(1) that is plowed or tilled;

(2) that has standing crops or crop residues;

(3) within a maintained fence for enclosing domestic livestock;

(4) that is planted native or introduced grassland or hay land; or

(5) that is planted to short rotation woody crops as defined in section 41B.048, subdivision 4.

Subd. 1a.Outdoor recreation definition. "Outdoor recreation" means any voluntary activity, including hunting, fishing, trapping, boating, hiking, camping, and engaging in winter sports, which is conducted primarily for the purposes of pleasure, rest, or relaxation and is dependent upon or derives its principal benefit from natural surroundings.

Subd. 2.Permission required to enter agricultural land for outdoor recreation purposes. Except as provided in subdivisions 5 and 6, a person may not enter agricultural land for outdoor recreation purposes, without first obtaining permission of the owner, occupant, or lessee.

Subd. 3.Prohibitions after notice. Except as provided in subdivision 6, a person may not remain on or return within one year to any land for outdoor recreation purposes after being personally notified not to do so by the owner, occupant, or lessee.

Subd. 4.Entering posted land prohibited; signs. (a) Except as provided in subdivision 6, a person may not:

(1) enter, for outdoor recreation purposes, any land that is posted under this subdivision without first obtaining permission of the owner, occupant, or lessee; or

(2) knowingly enter, for outdoor recreation purposes, any land that is posted under this subdivision without first obtaining permission of the owner, occupant, or lessee. A person who violates this clause is subject to the penalty provided in section 97A.315, subdivision 1, paragraph (.

( The owner, occupant, or lessee of private land, or an authorized manager of public land may prohibit outdoor recreation on the land by posting signs once each year that:

(1) state "no trespassing" or similar terms;

(2) display letters at least two inches high;

(3) either:

(i) are signed by the owner, occupant, lessee, or authorized manager; or

(ii) include the legible name and telephone number of the owner, occupant, lessee, or authorized manager; and

(4) either:

(i) are at intervals of 1,000 feet or less along the boundary of the area, or in a wooded area where boundary lines are not clear, at intervals of 500 feet or less; or

(ii) mark the primary corners of each parcel of land and access roads and trails at the point of entrance to each parcel of land except that corners only accessible through agricultural land need not be posted.

© A person may not erect a sign that prohibits outdoor recreation or trespassing where the person does not have a property right, title, or interest to use the land.

Subd. 5.Retrieving wounded game. Except as provided in subdivision 3, a person on foot may, without permission of the owner, occupant, or lessee, enter land that is not posted under subdivision 4, to retrieve a wounded animal that was lawfully shot. The hunter must leave the land immediately after retrieving the wounded game.

Subd. 6.Retrieving hunting dogs. A person on foot may, without permission of the owner, occupant, or lessee, enter private land without a firearm to retrieve a hunting dog. After retrieving the dog, the person must immediately leave the premises.

Subd. 7.Use of firearms and taking in certain areas. (a) Unless otherwise provided by law, a person may not discharge a firearm within 500 feet of a building occupied by a human or livestock without the written permission of the owner, occupant, or lessee:

(1) on another person's private land, if the land is not a licensed shooting preserve; or

(2) on a public road right-of-way.

( No person may discharge a firearm within 500 feet of a stockade or corral confining livestock for the purpose of normal livestock holding or sorting operations without the permission of the owner, occupant, or lessee. This paragraph does not apply to persons hunting during an established hunting season on state-owned or local government-owned land that is not a road right-of-way. For the purposes of this paragraph, a "stockade or corral" means a fenced enclosure for confining livestock that does not enclose an area greater than one acre.

© A person may not take a wild animal on any land where the person is prohibited from entering by this section.

Subd. 8.Destruction of property; gate closing. A person may not:

(1) wound or kill another person's domestic animal;

(2) destroy, cut, or tear down another person's fence, building, grain, crops, live tree, or sign erected under subdivision 4; or

(3) pass through another person's closed gate without returning the gate to its original position.

[NWKR]

The way the law is written is ridiculous. I wonder if a land owner has ever been able to prosecute a trespasser without their land being posted?

If your land isn't posted, just put up a gate and hope the trespasser doesn't close it since that is illegal:

Quote:

Subd. 8.Destruction of property; gate closing. A person may not:

(1) wound or kill another person's domestic animal;

(2) destroy, cut, or tear down another person's fence, building, grain, crops, live tree, or sign erected under subdivision 4; or

(3) pass through another person's closed gate without returning the gate to its original position.

In the 2014 hunting regulations they have this new bullet point as well:

Quote:

A person may not remain on or return within one year to any private land for outdoor recreation purposes after being told to leave by the owner, occupant or lessee.

Here it is in the statutes, how do I find out who wrote this?

Quote:

( A person is guilty of a misdemeanor if the person intentionally:

(8) returns to the property of another within one year after being told to leave the property and not to return, if the actor is without claim of right to the property or consent of one with authority to consent;

If you find someone hunting while trespassing and tell them to leave they can trespass again after a year is up if your land isn't posted? I would hate to leave anything up to chance and I would post the land. That said, I only have one sign on my property at a gravel pit entrance. I guess I could put a gate up too and hope I catch someone if they don't close it...

For the OP, see if you Grandfather would be willing to do a lease and have a small amount of consideration, $1 a year should be fine. Make sure you include in there that you can invite friends and even list their names as well. I am sure there are online templates.

[smsmith]

I agree 100% that the way the law is written is ridiculous. Even more ridiculous to me is that without land being posted it is implied permission to trespass.

In WI, it is incumbent on the person to know where they are. Land doesn't have to be posted, if you go wandering around where you're not supposed to be...that's on YOU.

Posting land isn't a big deal and doesn't cost much, but to me its ridiculous that posting is required to enforce trespassing. Since I live here (at least for now)...I'll post my property and ticket (hopefully..good luck getting some LEOs to write them) anyone who trespasses.

[aanderud]

I agree 100% that the way the law is written is ridiculous. Even more ridiculous to me is that without land being posted it is implied permission to trespass.

In WI, it is incumbent on the person to know where they are. Land doesn't have to be posted, if you go wandering around where you're not supposed to be...that's on YOU.

Posting land isn't a big deal and doesn't cost much, but to me its ridiculous that posting is required to enforce trespassing. Since I live here (at least for now)...I'll post my property and ticket (hopefully..good luck getting some LEOs to write them) anyone who trespasses.

I don't think it's ridiculous at all that the default for non-agricultural land is 'open' to recreation unless posted. But, everyone is entitled to their own opinion of course. There are literally millions of acres that would otherwise go unused and are owned by folks that are impossible or nearly impossible to get ahold of -- either family trusts with unlisted phone numbers and unresponsive mailing addresses, corporations, owners that live across the country, etc. I have no problem with folks being able to recreate on land by default, and leaving the responsibility to the owner to post the land if they want to privatize it.

People on my street sometimes walk through my yard to get to the lake south of my house, because there's no convenient sidewalk that directly takes them there and it saves them about 1/2 mile versus walking on the road. I realize that I could put a sign up that says no trespassing, and then folks would likely go around, but I just let it go because it's the neighborly thing to do and it's not bothering me. If fact, I'd actually be annoyed if they had to come ask me every time, as that would be a lot of doorbell ringing and my dog would go nuts. If it was bothering me that they were using that part of my yard, I would put a sign up and I'm confident that the problem would be solved. Simple as pie. But, they're not coming into or toward my house, so I just let it happen. This fairly analogous to the hunting thing only in a more urban (or suburban) setting.

[laker1]

The trespass law at present was discussed at length and debated by legislatures on how to be worded. Just because the nature and use is so much difference up north and boundaries less discrete and ownership the same,it was thought to leave non agriculture land open unless posted,also what has to be posted and when was changed to put more liabilty on what may be posted on the hunter to check on it.

The system is working find as it is,leave it alone.

Times have changed,but there was a time posting of land was fairly rare,except southern Minnesota.

[smsmith]

^^^that's very open minded of you.

I look at my property in a similar manner as my living room. If I came home to find a stranger sitting on my couch I wouldn't be happy...if I'm walking my land and find a trespasser, I'm just as unhappy.