Wild 2014/2015 Regular Season

10,000 Casts · September 30, 2014

I didn't see the game but it sounds like Koivu was slow and not very productive. I hope he isn't declining.

Hester · September 30, 2014

I didn't see the game but it sounds like Koivu was slow and not very productive. I hope he isn't declining.

He has been declining for 2 years

Even the coach knows it. That's why he is on the 2nd line.

Should be on the 3rd line.

CaptainMusky · September 30, 2014

Koivu was on decline at the time of his current contract. It is what it is. His money now and the length remaining is concerning me.

RK · September 30, 2014

That whole line didn't sound like they played well last night, after playing very well the game in Pitt.

I've said it before and probably will again: don't understand the Koivu haters.

Last season he had 54 points in 65 games, so .83 pts/game. That's a whopping .01 less than Parise. He was 3rd on the team in scoring, 6 behind the leader (Pomminville) in 17 fewer games. He led the team in assists, 8 ahead of Suter, again, with 17 fewer games. He was 13th in the league in assists, and 8 of the players in front of him played at least 75 games. The only one who played less (5 fewer) was Malkin. He's in the top 20 in the league in faceoffs.

I've come to the conclusion that the people that dislike him do so because they can't stop wanting him to be something he's not. He's not a goal scorer. He's just not. He's going to chip in 15 or so a year and that's about it.

What he is, is a big, smart, mobile 200-foot playmaking center with the size and strength to match up against pretty much any line in the NHL, and in the West where seemingly every team - and all the good ones are strong and big up the middle, that's a huge asset. He's a center who plays in every situation against the other team's top line, top PP unit, top PK unit...

I do like him on the second line, because I think Granlund just fits better with Parise, and he seems to have some chemistry with Pomminville. I think that a Vanek-Koivu-Coyle line is going to be pretty productive too, and solid in all 3 zones. Plus it's a pretty heavy line - they're all over 6' and 200 lbs. That's a lot to handle down low.But I could sure live with him on the first line, because he's been productive there too. Stats don't tell the whole story, but they don't lie either.

Winning a battle in the corner of your own zone or covering up an open wing on a backcheck doesn't make the highlights, but it does win games. If you think a player like Koivu isn't valuable because he doesn't score 30 goals/season, you're insane.

CaptainMusky · September 30, 2014

RK, Dont you think his production is a by-product of his line-mates? I mean, if he is always lined up with Parise they certainly should have fairly dang similar numbers in points, one gets the goals while the other gets the assist. Right?

He was the ONLY superstar we had for many years, but now, at this point in his career his contract WILL hamper our ability to retain some of our budding stars.

If you want to brag about faceoffs, well there are far cheaper guys that can be as good or better on the faceoff as well. Not just suited.

He and Brodziak are the two wildcards on this team. Aside from those two on the offensive side we are set.

Koivu gets a lot of ice time with our best skaters. Heatley showed at times even HE could get points with those guys as well.

I will give Koivu credit, he earned the deal he made at the time he made it, its just my opinion now that the Wild are paying dearly for it when he is declining and I dont want that to hamper keeping one of our young guys.

If we have to part ways with Coyle because we didnt have money, I will be ticked. A lot of the reasons why Koivu plays where he is because we didnt have anyone else that could AND the fact he was a veteran. Now, you could throw about 3 or maybe 4 other guys in that spot and do equal. Fontaine, Haula, etc I think could do equally well and have a more scoring upside.

Its a nice problem to have a I guess having so much depth.

Bear55 · September 30, 2014

Very much agree RK, said many of the same things last year. People just need to accept him for what he is. Can't wait for the Vanek bashers to show up, he is more skill and not nearly as much of the hustle and grit Koivu brings. Now if you could combine them you would have a stud but it doesn't work that way.

bbfenatic · September 30, 2014

Time will tell but if history repeats itself Vanek will prove to be more valuable than Koivu and Brodz combined IMO.

PierBridge · October 1, 2014

Not sure if it was mentioned but Koivu is outstanding on faceoffs. Our best and top 15 in the league. Huge asset.

I dont see anyway Vanek meets most of the Wilds fans expectations.

Im thinking 22 goals about even plus minus at best and he will miss at least 10 games.

Hope im wrong but thats how I see it.

OnAFly · October 1, 2014

Even if he gets 22 goals, that still way more than Heatley got us. As long as Vanek isn't a total defensive liability out there, it will be a big upgrade.

I hope people aren't expecting Vanek to put up a 40g season. 20-25g is reasonable. In the last 5 years, he's +11. If he keeps those numbers, we got what we were hoping for.

CaptainMusky · October 1, 2014

I hope people aren't expecting Vanek to put up a 40g season. 20-25g is reasonable. In the last 5 years, he's +11. If he keeps those numbers, we got what we were hoping for.

Exactly! If people are expecting him to put up 40 goals then their expectations are far too high. Look at it as an upgrade over Heatley since their salaries are about the same.

Better on power play, better play maker and still a sniper. He should help a lot on PP and get significant time on it.

RK · October 1, 2014

You can argue Koivu gets the points because of who he plays with, but you can argue it the opposite direction as well. Would that same line be as productive with someone who isn't as good an all-around player and fairly skilled playmaker? Even with less skilled wingers on some fairly bad Wild teams, when he's played a full season or close to it he's been between 60 and 70 points/season more often than not (67 in 08/09, 71 in 09/10 and what was with Andrew Brunette and Antti "Missed the Net" Miettinen on his wings for Pete's sake). That's pretty solid production.

BB - you're making my point exactly. No way Koivu has as many goals as Vanek. Vanek is a scoring winger. That's not what Koivu is, or Brodziak for that matter. But if you only measure value by goal production you're missing something. They're different kinds of players, and Koivu has a skillset a lot of teams would love to have. A roster full of high skill, goal scoring forwards who can't play team defense, won't backcheck and are only interested in one end of the ice doesn't win you many games. (See: Oilers, Edmonton)

It'll be interesting to see how productive Vanek ends up being. Hard to predict but if he gets close to 30 it's a huge upgrade at left wing. For sure he'll help their power play just by adding a right-hand shot to the mix. Last year's Koivu/Parise/Granlund PP unit was all left-hand shots and they got kind of lopsided as a result. They improve their PP by 10% and that's a lot of points right there...

CaptainMusky · October 1, 2014

You can argue Koivu gets the points because of who he plays with, but you can argue it the opposite direction as well. Would that same line be as productive with someone who isn't as good an all-around player and fairly skilled playmaker?

Valid point.

I guess I dont see Koivu as this God like backchecking player as has been eluded to. Yes he is great on the faceoffs. yes he is a good forechecking player, but he has certainly lost speed (still more than adequate) and I have seen evidence of this on the backcheck. I see his forecheck being the biggest asset in this. Its because of the pressure they put on that allows him to do well against the top lines, less than the back check defensive zone coverage IMO anyway.

I have no hatred for him, but like I said earlier what worries me is the amount and remaining term of his contract. He is commanding a ton of money and for me that money could be spent toward other players that are more productive or are young like Coyle. That is what I am afraid of that it will put the Wild in a bind.

All things considered if it works to keep him and sign all the young studs then I will be glad to keep him around because he has been a dependable player and consistently gets adequate points and plays against many teams top lines.

10,000 Casts · October 3, 2014

Last nights Penalties. Looks like we're going to have some rough games in the Central this year. After last night it looks like I'm coming down to the game tomorrow!!!

penalty summary

1st Period