Keeping Outdoor Cats

[lindy rig]

Ok.. I know this is a Dog forum

And yes I have a Yellow Lab who is a hunting dog.

Didn't know where else to post this question and I figure most you guys in this forum are animal lovers.

I am thinking about getting a couple cats with the main purpose of them hunting critters and pests around my property. I would prefer that they be mainly outdoor cats and would be willing to set them up with whatever they need. I have had cats before, but they were indoor at the time.

Does anyone have experience / success with keeping outdoor cats?

[B-man715]

They are pretty self sufficient......and prolific......

If you really feel the need to have an outdoor cat, please, please have it's baby making parts removed..... So your whole neighborhood doesn't have outdoor cats too

[nofishfisherman]

Id caution you on getting cats for the purpose of critter control. You may want them to target mice or other little pests but they are going to target whatever they want to target. Might be mice or it might be birds. They can be pretty effective killing machines once they perfect their craft. There are more effective and simpler forms of pest control than the old barn cat approach.

The other thing is that once they get use to being outdoors and self sufficient you probably shouldn't expect them to be very friendly. My grandparents use to keep outdoor cats on the old farm property and some of those cats started out as nice tame semi indoor cats and before long some of them became nasty vile monsters who would slink around the property contemplating how they could rip your throat out if you let down your guard. Certainly not something I'd want on my property.

One thing to consider, how much land do you own? Whats going to keep these cats on your property and not roaming all over to the neighbors. Those neighbors might not appreciate the cats killing things on their property which they will do sooner or later.

And of course like mentioned above don't even consider sending a cat out into the outdoors with intact baby makers. Before long you'll have more cats than you know what to do with and everyone within 5 miles will be hating you. My grandparents haven't lived on the farm property for 20 years now and there are still feral cats roaming around out there. I deer hunt the property from time to time and its pretty common to have them jump out of wood piles or underbrush. No real surprise that grouse hunting sucks up there.

[Jmnhunter]

keep cats inside or no cats! i wish there was a law on against having outdoor cats, they are good for nothing and like nofish says, they are very proficient at killing EVERYTHING, song birds, gamebirds, etc. spread disease. as a sportsman and conservationist, i hope you see the negative effects they have on the surrounding areas

https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?id=170989299656108&story_fbid=127840564054215

[mpester]

Unless you figure out some way to keep those things ONLY in your yard, do not do it. I keep my dog out of my neighbor’s yard all the time. I do not let my dog do his business in my neighbor’s yard. I do not let my dog stalk the bird feeder in the neighbor’s yard. I really hate seeing the neighbor’s cats in my yard. If I get lucky and catch them in the live trap, I return them once or twice but the next time, I call animal control. I have been known to return some cat droppings to one ladies driveway after a beer or two. I have seen that one doing his business in my flower bed more than a few times. He is on strike two with the live trap.

[lindy rig]

Wow. Easy guys.

I live on 5 acres, surrounded by swamp and woods. Only one neighbor within sight.

Yes of course I would get them spayed or neutered and get them their vaccines each year. I always have with my pets. I don't want inbred cats around my place either.

And I'm sorry I want them to be hunting machines. Mice, snakes, moles, voles whatever they are all pests. Right now I probably kill 50 baby toads and frogs everytime I mow the lawn. They are everywhere. Should I feel guilty about that too?

Maybe they would end up being indoor / outdoor cats. That's the input I am looking for. Anyone with some positive experience on the matter?

[nofishfisherman]

I think the point is that most peoples experience with it hasn't been positive. That in itself should be an indicator.

I'm of the mindset that if you want to live on some acreage surrounded by woods and swamp then you should accept that there are going to be some critters living in the same area.

By the way my grandparents property is 40 acres surrounded on 2 sides by swamp and the neighbors a 1/4 mile away still had problems with the cats.

[lindy rig]

So I should accept if mice want to dig and build a home up against my foundation? Let them be? And then heaven for bid if they found a crack in the foundation and wanted to come inside. Invite them in for a cup of tea?

I'm sorry but there are some blurred lines here. I'm not looking to get an army of cats and go killing everything in the forest. But I can protect my house. No different than what people have done since the beggining of time. Not to mention most of us on this forum HUNT.

And no offense nofisherman... you are doing a good job of being pretty neutral... but your anology of having a herd of inbred ferrel farmcats at your grandparents isn't even close to me having a couple of fixed and well cared for.

[nofishfisherman]

I will admit there is a difference between my experiences with the feral cats and the plan you are talking about but even fixed/domesticated cats can cause problems both on your property and your neighbors even if they aren't right next door. I also don't think you are talking to a group of tree huggers here who are worried about cats harming poor little mice, at least that's not my perspective. Keeping mice and other critters in check isn't a terrible thing but other desirable animals are probably going to fall prey to cats as well.

I just think there are better tools to do the job. Cats aren't going to give you a very good targeted approach when trying to eliminate the critters giving you trouble. The cats are going to go where they please and kill what they please. You might have mice trying to get into your house but the cats might be busy riding your yard of those tiny little toads you mentioned leaving your house unprotected.

If my real concern is keeping critters out of my house I'd choose a tool that allows me to target the exact critter that concerns me at the exact spot that concerns me. Cats aren't necessarily going to do that.

[mpester]

Your outdoor cats are going to target whatever they feel like killing that day or night. Birds, toads, snakes, ect. The chance they are going to target just mice or just voles is slim to none. They are going to kill plenty of song birds and stuff you and I like having around. You asked for an opinion about outdoor cats and it sure seems most people do not like the idea.

[CANOPY SAM]

We have a cat that just showed up one day and my youngest son made it his. He started out not being terribly friendly (the cat, not my son), but of course he was more then happy to accept food.

Now he's actually a pretty nice cat. He sleeps on my son's bed during the day, then goes out in the evening and hunts for critters. He does kill pretty much anything he can get ahold of, but we're fortunate to have very, very few song birds in our area, so that's never been an issue that I've seen.

I will tell you though. Indoor/outdoor cats seem to show their "affection" for you by leaving parts of their kill on your doorstep, or on the deck. My wife has inadvertently stepped on more then one half mouse, frog intestine, or bird head on her way out the door in the morning! Not exactly the way anyone really imagines starting out their day.

My wife hates that cat, but the rest of us kind of like him. All our neighbors have indoor/outdoor cats too, so no one makes any fuss about any of them. The upside is what you're looking for. We live in the country, and have a barn full of equipment, and a double garage full of stuff, and I very, very rarely see any mice, voles, and any other critters around causing problems.

I would add though, we used to have several red squirrels around, and I always enjoyed watching them. They're all gone now. And as for all the toads this year, I think that's a side affect of such a wet spring. Your cat will eat a couple of those and then learn it's lesson NOT to eat anymore. We found out that lesson....left on the deck as well!

Really funny thing. Our 100 lb black lab is absolutely best friends with this cat. They snuggle together. They walk down to the river and watch the scenery together. The dog frequently spoils the cat's hunting efforts by walking into the set up and blowing the cat's cover. They're funny to watch together.

[Ufatz]

Let me be frank. The other guys won't say it. I am happy you enjoy the cat but the truth is they are deadly on small birds and little critters. There are reports available that cite a very high toll of songbirds attributed to feral cats. If you like your little car, and obviously you do, why don't you take steps to limit it's roaming.

Because if it continues to roam at night the morning will come when there is no cat on the back step. And then you and the kids will be very sad.

Life is full of little things like this and we all gotta deal with them.

[123fish]

Canopy the reason you have very, very few song birds in your area may very well be the cat you have hanging around. They are indiscrimate hunters plain and simple. Lindy you should have an indoor cat and if a stray mouse gets in the house your cat can catch him then. Just a thought.

[delcecchi]

So I should accept if mice want to dig and build a home up against my foundation? Let them be? And then heaven for bid if they found a crack in the foundation and wanted to come inside. Invite them in for a cup of tea?

I'm sorry but there are some blurred lines here. I'm not looking to get an army of cats and go killing everything in the forest. But I can protect my house. No different than what people have done since the beggining of time. Not to mention most of us on this forum HUNT.

And no offense nofisherman... you are doing a good job of being pretty neutral... but your anology of having a herd of inbred ferrel farmcats at your grandparents isn't even close to me having a couple of fixed and well cared for.

Get some of this

and a bait station like these

Or make your own out of pvc.

It will take care of rodents without the bad side effects.

[CANOPY SAM]

Guys, I can understand why you might get that impression based on the wording of my post. I tried to convey this, but I'll rephrase it and see if it makes more sense this way.

We've lived where we live now for 5+ years. I love wildlife of all kinds, and I usually put out supplemental seed and food for birds and critters late fall and early spring. In all those years the only song birds I've seen come thru our yard have been Blue Jays. For some reason, probably the topography or particular flora around, we just don't get song birds here.

The cat only showed up last fall. He's been around our place for almost a year now, and the only change I see are fewer squirrels (and mice and meadow voles are completely absent), but we still do have some squirrels around.

I completely agree about cats and songbirds. If I ever witnessed him catch a song bird, or found remnants of a song bird he'd caught and eaten, he'd be gone in the blink of an eye. So far all I've seen him catch is a young sparrow or two.

I lived in Waconia for 5 years, and also lived in Grand Rapids for 5 years, and in both of those properties we saw lots of various song birds. We just don't see them here. Admittedly, the biome here is relatively sterile (small groves of trees and nothing else but agricultural fields). I'd imagine the lack of diversity here plays a large part in the lack of song birds.

So anyway, I don't disagree with you any of you at all that semi-wild cats can have a big impact on song birds. However, the OP's situation sounds very similar to my own current situation, and although it's almost certainly not the most popular vote, I personally think a couple "fixed" cats would accomplish exactly what the OP is trying to achieve.

If our cat doesn't come home one day I don't think anyone in our family is going to shed a tear. We didn't go looking for him in the first place. He just showed up and made himself ours. If he disappears, we won't be looking for another cat. I do completely understand your concern though.

[Dotch]

As one who has had numerous cats over the years on the farm, they are indeed a double-edged sword. While rat bait works well to keep the rodent population down, it does nothing to keep unwanted birds such as house sparrows out of buildings. And yes, cats do target songbirds from time to time but predator guards and birdhouses such as the Gilbertson design for bluebirds go a long way towards keeping cats, raccoons, opossums and other vermin out of them. If the cats have easy pickings in the barn and are fed besides, well, it sorta depends on the cat too regardless of what all these high powered research papers say. Not all people are great hunters and neither are all cats. And yes, I have fixed my own tomcats by using a boot or a stovepipe. There are some humans that should probably have the same treatment.

Do we have cats now? No. They can carry a disease known as toxoplasmosis which is transferred in their feces which can cause abortion in livestock and birth defects amongst other things in humans. Cats have a propensity for defecating in feed and hay chaff so it's natural delivery system for the disease. I now have a house sparrow problem however and after keeping feed covered and trapping hundreds of the dam things over the years, I am seriously considering allowing the cats back. I am being visited by the neighbors cats now as well as the overflow sparrows from another neighboring livestock operation. I have been trapping little kittens from a recent hatch of strays, taming them down and giving them to the little neighbor girls on that livestock operation. The cats are spayed and neutered when old enough. If you don't think house sparrows are a problem, in addition to transmitting diseases themselves, ask anyone who tends bluebird houses. When you find a tree swallow or bluebird a male house sparrow has killed inside the nesting box and built a messy nest over the top of it, it makes your blood boil. Not many cats will risk climbing the alternating hot and ground wires on the fences here to get at the bluebird houses but I have found dead opossums stuck in between the wires.

[Gissert]

We had a male cat show up at our place (rural) a few years ago. Wife and kid started feeding it w/o telling me. After a couple weeks, they let me in on the deal. I realized he was here to stay, so I got naming rights due to the fact I was not real happy about it. Thus, Trianglecat (long story) became part of the family.

He was quite friendly, and got along with the dogs just fine. Someone had previously nuetered him, and his front claws had been removed.

I noticed that the mice were getting piled up along with the occasional bird. I was not happy about the bird part...at all. Came to realize that if we kept him well food, with food he liked, he did not range far from the garage. Yet, any critter who invaded the garage soon ended up in a tropy pile on the back steps to the rodent population is still well in check. Once in a while he'll still tag a bird, but not very often, and then they tend to be sparrows and other ground feeders.

All in all, I'm glad he is around. Very affectionate and not temperamental. Cuddles right up with the dogs when its cold outside.

[pushbutton]

Have a couple three indoor outdoor cats.....Mrs pushbutton just shows up with them periodically. Can say they do take a toll on the smaller low dwelling/feeding birdies. Can also say they take a toll on the mice, bunnies, squirrels, chipmunks, grasshoppers, moths.......whatever makes sudden quick movements....lol. Yes, they are fixed. Had dogs prior to the cats, and noticed if you introduce a kitten into the mix, they might take on a little more doglike qualities, for instance, they will go on walks with us and most importantly go to the bathroom outside. A pointer probably wont be a good match though......got to get the kitty, got to get the kitty, got to get the kitty......window to window to window to door, window to window to window to door.......all day long. Sorry, I digress.

Anyway, by choice, they spend a majority of their time outside. When it starts to get cold in late nov/early dec there will be a few week window that they will spend some more time inside, but seem to get stir crazy and would rather be out in the cold than stuck inside. Do try to make them stay in on the really cold nights though. Going back to outdoor potty training, pine/spruce trees near the house will help as they seem to serve their as their litter box during the winter months.

There are a couple downsides to the outdoor part of the indoor outdoor gig. They do get things like worms and fleas more often, and are much more susceptible to picking up a nasty illness from contact from the ferrels that they will come in contact with, most likely reducing their life span. Roads do seem to be a magnet as well, and say you have a young daughter who grows fond of Mr. Tickles....life lessons are more frequent. All in all, suppose would rather have them around than not.

[Ufatz]

I am very curios about the training method mentioned by poster Dotch. He says he trained or fixed male cats "with either a boot or a stove pipe."

Could we get a little more light on that subject?

[123fish]

I'm wondering Ufatz if he isn't referring to what one of the old timers in my hometown used to do to male dogs that came on his property when his dog would be in heat. He and his sons would catch the dog and open up one of those old style suitcases and close it around the front half of the dog with the business end sticking out the backside and a sharp knife would then be used to remove Mr. Roamers nuggets to deter him from future roamings. Admittedly this was a long time ago but I wonder if stuffing a cat in a boot or stovepipe wouldn't serve the same purpose as that suitcase.

[Ryan_V]

Have had outdoor cats for a decade. Farm cats are farm cats. Yea they can be good mousers. Secret is to limit the food you give them. If you keep their food bowl full of cat food, there is no incentive to hunt mice. I disagree with the "outdoor cats are worthless, there should be a law against them" post. That's a bit extreme. The post about them being unfriendly is also incorrect. The key is to socialize with them from a young age. Our farm cats are extremely friendly, I have two daughters that play with them, but they are still outdoor, farm cats. Don't get kittens from a farm that aren't already friendly, those are the ones you have trouble with. I liketo stick with female cats, toms tend to wander more, and those are the ones you see that live in the wild, killing birds, and baby birds and bird nests. A couple times we were without cats, and that's the only time I've had mice. They do a great job of keeping mice away. My cats have food/water in a lean (enclosed) off a shed where I keep my plow truck. There is an old dog house in there with straw in it in the winter where they can keep warm. They are beneficial, but there is still a degree of maintenance. You can't get a couple free cats, turn them loose and expect rodent issues to disappear! I'd say get a couple!

[LABS4ME]

Lindy,

I had 3 acres and two cats allowed to roam it. Both were fixed males, both we're Tabby rescues, both were neutered and declawed (doesn't hurt them in hunting ground animals in the least, does eliminate almost all bird kills), I kept them in my heated outbuilding mostly for the first year and then began to allow them out during the day and back in at night. They wanted to sleep in the building and get some fresh water/ food so would show back up at sun down. They received vaccines and were wormed annually. Never set one mouse trap while I lived there and had song birds and pheasants at the feeder all the time. Bunny population took a hit too... Which is fine by me. They lived till almost 20 each... One died last year, and one died this year. My ex wife said she now had some mice in basement and called in some pest control... I'd get a other cat!

Good Luck!

Ken

[Dotch]

I am very curios about the training method mentioned by poster Dotch. He says he trained or fixed male cats "with either a boot or a stove pipe."

Could we get a little more light on that subject?

heh, heh, heh, light is exactly what you need along with another guy wearing leather gloves in addition to the boot or stovepipe and a sharp knife or scalpel if you're the surgeon. Typical life down on the farm for male animals to keep them from breeding things you don't want bred. In the case of tomcats it also keeps them from marking things with their stink you don't want stunk. Insert front end of tomcat in pipe or boot with legs folded back, hold back legs down out of the way and the surgical work is done by the other guy. Nothing to it really. Some guys take the whole sack while others including myself make a couple slits and make sure we got the reproductive parts out before spraying it down with a disinfectant of some kind. Inhumane? Maybe but the alternative is either more unwanted kittens or a costly trip to the vets office to accomplish the same thing. Never lost one yet. Even if I did as my friend Betsy's Dad like to point out, cats are a renewable resource.

PS - Not doing too well in the cat trapping dept. as of late. The remaining two aren't hanging around the barn any more. I am not a fan of stray cats or feral cats either one. I've done my best John Kerry impression and crawled on my belly to take them out with the double barrel when they mess with bird nests in the bushes. Gives the wife a start when I do stuff like that. Better than shooting out the window like I do when she's not around!

[Jmnhunter]

We could all argue the negatives on outdoor cats all day if your main concern is to keep rodents down get some owls- in all seriousness poison would be more beneficial...

[CANOPY SAM]

jmnhunter. With all due respect man, owls are near, if not the top of the food chain when it comes to stealth hunters. They're wicked bad on pheasant, grouse, duck and goose babies, and would likely even take out young cats given the chance.

If it was legal, I'd have wiped out more then my fair share of owls over the years. I've found groves of trees out in the Dakotas full of game bird feathers and bones left solely by owls.