Gun season in peak of rut

[Jameson]

In other words limit the ability of everyone to harvest a deer to benefit everyone.

[gardn184]

1.) Not everyone cares about shooting a big buck. There are a lot of guys who go out and are just as excited to shoot a fork, as some hunters are to shoot a booner. I'm fairly selective in my harvest being that I bowhunt both Mn and Wisconsin, and rifle hunt Wi as well. However a couple years back I had a decent run of not being able to get a deer to save my life. I ended up shooting a fork during rifle season. It was one of the most exciting deer I've taken and the sense of joy I got from shooting that deer was equal to that of shooting a nice buck with the bow. The fact of the matter is hunting should be about the excitement that comes from shooting an animal, not the size of the horns after. I'm not for letting someone else make the decision as to what size buck is acceptable to take soley so guys who want bigger deer have an easier job to find them. Give out less doe tags if you want to increase the herd. If guys want to shoot bigger bucks, do what people used to do....WORK HARDER. They're out there, and they're smart, and there's guys who are very successful at killing them on pressured land.

2.) I feel that rifle season is about tradition for most people, and the opening dates are an important part of the experience. I feel that a shorter season would probably be more beneficial to the deer herd than pushing the date back. I'd be willing to bet just as many small bucks are shot in Wisconsin as are in Minnesota on opener. They get shot because they're dumb, and don't know how to hide like a mature whitetail does, the smart ones survive and continue on to become bigger deer. The pressure generated by 9 days of the orange army in Wi is probably less than 3 weeks of it like in Mn so I think a 14 day season would be a happy compromise to help limit the stress on breeding deer.

[Uncle Rico]

I keep reading all these posts, and I could be wrong, but I bet about 90 percent of the people are writing what would be best for #1. It is human nature. My post is based on western MN in corn country.

Do we as hunters think its the best thing for the resource to have people bowhunting for almost 4 months, gun hunting for either 9 or 16 days, and muzzleloading for 16 more days? I mean come on, let's be honest. Out in agricultural portions of the state, the deer cover available once the corn comes off is significantly less than it once was. Small unfarmed low spots are now tiled and farmed. The farm groves which existed on every 1/4 section are now gone. Once harvest is over and the rut passes, the deer all head to the river bottoms and winter cover.

Todays hunters are light years more efficient than even 20 yrs ago. Nowdays everyone has 5 trail cams out. Guys have bows that shoot groups at 50+ yds. They have scent-lock type suits. Gun hunters now have 9 or 16 consecutive days to hunt, and many do. It used to be either 2 days (first season) or 4 days (second season). Either you got a deer or you didn't. The yearling bucks that some want to talk about only had to make it through 1 or 2 weekends of gun hunters (either by luck or smarts) to have an excellent chance of making 2.5 years of age. Sure there were some bowhunters still out later but as a rule the pressure really lightened after gun season.

I don't see why bowhunters need almost 4 months. I say cut it in half. We are far more advanced hunters that we once were.

I don't see why gun hunters need 9 or 16 days. I say go back to the old days in western MN. Pick your weekend. We are far more advanced than we once were.

I don't see why muzzleloaders need 16 days long after the other gun seasons are done. I keep hearing how its such a pure form of hunting with primitive weapon.....what a load of dump. Your muzzy will outshoot my slug gun every day of the year, and I aint a bad shot. Some guys are gun hunting for over 30 days. We are far more advanced than we once were, muzzleloading didn't even exist in my area 25 yrs ago.

Now we give them just enough time to get done with the rut and start grouping up in the little winter cover that still exists, and then we give people a muzzleloader tag to go out and have their way with whatever animals made it through the extended gun season. I'll bet my paycheck that the original poster of this thread has primo winter cover to hunt.

I have to scratch my head as we keep having more liberal regs while habitat disappears, populations plummet, etc. This frustration is not just isolated to deer. How many mainstream game animals in MN have more restrictive regs/seasons now than 25 years ago? Waterfowl- more liberal. Pheasants- more liberal. Deer- more liberal.

To me one of MNDNR's biggest weaknesses is the ability to address fluid situations. If the deer herd takes a big hit in an area one year, it will be 3-5 yrs before they address it.

[Musky Buck]

Tell you what after last Monday with our aging deer hunters, I think leaving it where it is I mean I woke up to 6 degrees Monday AM, that cold and wind didn't help getting my dad out of the woods after he suffered a heart attack. It was far enough back this year, from November 1st-9th my daylight t-cam was buzzing with activity so if you're a bow enthusiast and didn't hunt last week I'm not sure what to tell you, you missed out big time. What is the peak rut time ? Buffalo county outfitters say they usually have the 1st hot doe of the year year after year in that October 10th-15th timeframe. So talking with dozens of guys now why can't they see a single deer even ? Man it's the rut etc. Because there is so much pressure the pressure trumps the rut more often than not in fairly heavily pressured areas. Now back to St. Cloud to see how the prep for a triple bypass surgery goes.

[mntatonka]

I disagree about hunters being more efficient than in years past. Sure, we've got all the technology in the world to help us get deer. But the old-timers didn't need the tech and could still get more deer. Between guys coming back from Vietnam, and WW2 & Korea vets, they were far better hunters and definitely better shots than amost of us ever will be.

We had a couple of guys like that in our hunting party, and they could take the top of the head off a deer at 50 yards on the run, with a worn out 12ga and a rifled slug. And they'd do it over and over again. Those same guys could sneak up on a deer and shoot it in the back of the head if they wanted to. We don't stand a chance of being the same caliber of hunters they were, especially since so many hunters these days are only in it for the trophies, not for the camaraderie or food like they were.

[Uncle Rico]

I disagree about hunters being more efficient than in years past. Sure, we've got all the technology in the world to help us get deer. But the old-timers didn't need the tech and could still get more deer. Between guys coming back from Vietnam, and WW2 & Korea vets, they were far better hunters and definitely better shots than amost of us ever will be.

We had a couple of guys like that in our hunting party, and they could take the top of the head off a deer at 50 yards on the run, with a worn out 12ga and a rifled slug. And they'd do it over and over again. Those same guys could sneak up on a deer and shoot it in the back of the head if they wanted to. We don't stand a chance of being the same caliber of hunters they were, especially since so many hunters these days are only in it for the trophies, not for the camaraderie or food like they were.

While I can appreciate what you're trying to say, there is no way that what you speak of fully counteracts all the technological advancements, liberalized seasons, etc.

A pile of those guys who came back from Vietnam are still hunting today.

[PurpleFloyd]

1.) Not everyone cares about shooting a big buck. There are a lot of guys who go out and are just as excited to shoot a fork, as some hunters are to shoot a booner. I'm fairly selective in my harvest being that I bowhunt both Mn and Wisconsin, and rifle hunt Wi as well. However a couple years back I had a decent run of not being able to get a deer to save my life. I ended up shooting a fork during rifle season. It was one of the most exciting deer I've taken and the sense of joy I got from shooting that deer was equal to that of shooting a nice buck with the bow. The fact of the matter is hunting should be about the excitement that comes from shooting an animal, not the size of the horns after. I'm not for letting someone else make the decision as to what size buck is acceptable to take soley so guys who want bigger deer have an easier job to find them. Give out less doe tags if you want to increase the herd. If guys want to shoot bigger bucks, do what people used to do....WORK HARDER. They're out there, and they're smart, and there's guys who are very successful at killing them on pressured land.

2.) I feel that rifle season is about tradition for most people, and the opening dates are an important part of the experience. I feel that a shorter season would probably be more beneficial to the deer herd than pushing the date back. I'd be willing to bet just as many small bucks are shot in Wisconsin as are in Minnesota on opener. They get shot because they're dumb, and don't know how to hide like a mature whitetail does, the smart ones survive and continue on to become bigger deer. The pressure generated by 9 days of the orange army in Wi is probably less than 3 weeks of it like in Mn so I think a 14 day season would be a happy compromise to help limit the stress on breeding deer.

That was a very articulate,well thought out and reasoned post.

[PurpleFloyd]

"the few"

Who is this select group. Please describe them. Are they only white people? Only black people? Only men? Only women? Who are these select few that will benefit?

Guys like you who think every hunter should change how they hunt and possibly go home empty handed just so you have an easier time filling your wall.

[flipper]

+1

[tfran123]

yet to read something you type that I agree with, just saying . . .

[96trigger]

+1

Evidently, only posts that agree with his way of thinking are well thought and reasoned.

[flipper]

I think its good to see that not everyone on here is simply a shill for APRs.

[PurpleFloyd]

yet to read something you type that I agree with, just saying . . .

I have no problem with that.

[PurpleFloyd]

+1

Evidently, only posts that agree with his way of thinking are well thought and reasoned.

I didn't say that I agreed with everything. He just posted in a tactful and respectful manner.

Personally my opinion and the opinion of others that I hunt with is that the longer season in this area has led to people being able to be more selective with what they shoot than they were when you only had 2 days to fill a tag. During the short season the hunters in every party I know in this area shot every single deer they had a tag for no matter what size or sex it was. With the longer season we are doing more sitting, building more blinds and we have been talking about starting some food plots next year and maybe having a few of us letting spikes and forks walk if they feel like it. If it were 2 days no way would this ever even get a consideration.

But yeah, feel free to think whatever you want.

[Lunker]

I have strong opinions of APR and the other topics discussed above, but am going to come at this topic from a different angle.

I grew up hunting MN rifle season and still do. I also started hunting WI rifle season after moving there. I think WI having a later season has it correct. 1-The rut is still going on but not being hunted at the chase and peak phases 2- they built the season around thanksgiving, which allows nearly every hunter additional time to hunt because most people (i dont though ) get time off from work, and allows for familys to be together and hunt together.

[BLACKJACK]

1.) Not everyone cares about shooting a big buck. There are a lot of guys who go out and are just as excited to shoot a fork, as some hunters are to shoot a booner.

The fact of the matter is hunting should be about the excitement that comes from shooting an animal, not the size of the horns after. I'm not for letting someone else make the decision as to what size buck is acceptable to take soley so guys who want bigger deer have an easier job to find them.

If guys want to shoot bigger bucks, do what people used to do....WORK HARDER. They're out there, and they're smart, and there's guys who are very successful at killing them on pressured land.

I've hi-lighted a few points in gard's post that bear repeating. Its shouldn't be all about the size of the antlers guys.

[deerminator]

Agreed. My family was just encouraging me at the dinner table the other night "We sure hope you get your deer this year dad." And then they started talking about all the good meals we had last year from the buck I got. Sure, it's nice to get a big buck. But you have to put things into perspective. Most deer hunters I know feel the same way. My neighbor who duck and pheasant hunts but doesn't deer hunt looks at me like I'm crazy when I told him I passed on a forkhorn. And I'd be willing to bet a lot in IA and WI, the so called deer hunting meccas, the majority feel the same way. And not everyone in IA and WI is bringing home a huge trophy buck every year. They are, after all whitetails, not squirrels. You have to work at getting close to one. I could get my limit of squirrels every morning it seems. lol.

[Jameson]

Guys like you who think every hunter should change how they hunt and possibly go home empty handed just so you have an easier time filling your wall.

You do know I am anti-APR, don't you?

How does a buck lottery make it so every hunter has to hunt how I do? Please answer this or apologize.

One of the reasons I don't like our bow season is because in a way it forces every hunter to become a bow hunter OR face the fact that other hunters will get a bunch of hunting time before they will with the rifle. So, I understand what you're saying about forcing someone to hunt the way they do, but don't think a buck lottery does that, does it?

My wall is pretty empty, and I will never have a buck shoulder mounted. Yes, I have a few racks on the wall, and will add one to it this year, a 1.5 year old buck. I could shoot a little buck most years. Most years I would rather pass a little buck. This year my goals were different. If my goal was to fill my wall, I could probably put a rack on it nearly every year. But I couldn't do that with a buck lottery. So, your reasoning is off, but reasoning may not be that big of a deal to you.

[skee0025]

Or even go as far as what happened a couple years ago in some areas when all adult hunters were limited to bucks, and only a limited number of antlerless permits were given to the youths.

What were the circumstances that surrounded that? Was it to increase the number of Mature bucks or was it because there was a drop in the total number of deer in that area? Big difference.

[Kdog10]

One thing that a lot of people are not taking into account is the loss of habitat, specifically CRP acres. Those acres supported many different species and less acres of habitat equals less game.

If you want to hunt and manage for a trophy whitetail...fine.

If you want to hunt and fill your freezer...fine.

You can not possible dictate any one way to hunt that would satisfy everyone. The one thing that we should not do as sportsmen is project our methods onto others. As long as you/they are hunting ethically then everyone should pat them on the back for hunting the "right way."

[PurpleFloyd]

Guys like you who think every hunter should change how they hunt and possibly go home empty handed just so you have an easier time filling your wall.