Too much Law Enforcement

[Riverratpete]

I realize this is probably going to make some peoples heads explode but heres a thought. All this talk about cutting budgets, etc etc but I did notice that the DNR keeps hiring people and they keep wanting to hire AIS Inspectors. Do we REALLY need this many people out inspecting law abiding citizens to see if they have a whistle in their boat or other misc perceived offenses or is this just a "Jobs" thing and a"Funds Raiser" for the state? I have been checked several times and never had a problem with being checked and can honestly say I have only witnessed one incident which required a TIP call. I feel TIP Hotline is a much better and cheaper resource than hiring a bunch of fulltime people. Just a thought.

[thatoneguy]

Without the full time people, who is there to follow up on calls made to TIP? COs generally cover a huge swath of territory - there aren't too many of them, IMO. Now as far as the bunch of boat inspectors they had to hire this year to enforce their AIS regs...that's a whole 'nother story.

[JohnMickish]

According to the latest statistics, over 20% of the boaters out there are in non complience with the laws. Is that acceptable to you?

[bkerschner70]

I was doing some reading on the dnr site today. They just started an academy of 12 co's and have 25 vacancies.

[mainbutter]

I'm perfectly happy seeing fewer city police, but COs are stretched too thinly at the moment for my liking. As a general rule I don't like enforcers, and I don't like random observation, but the response time to CO calls is pretty slow particularly because of how few there are.

[OnAFly]

Too much law enforcement? No. If anything, I would like to see more of the budget go towards more COs.

[mrklean]

Agreed with you guys we need more CO's

[Raider4ever]

Could do without the Coast Guard doing the EXACT same thing as the CO's and Sheriff's Dept. in the Duluth area. I don't mind them doing icebreaking, sniffing for illegal fruit importation, and pumping lead into the middle of Lake Superior (who knows what else they do). But, do they really need to check people for the same thing these other departments do? And, I love when the CG boat commander puts his hand on his sidearm every time they pull up on a "Heroin-laden" 14' jonboat or some "illegal immigrant smuggling" Bennington pontoon (personally, I think it's a case of LPS)?

This is a TRIPLICATION of duties. C'mon, really?

[jigging-matt]

Down in our area, there are no CO's for about 5 counties. We definitely need more CO's

[Scott K]

The problem as I see it is the CO's priorities. They should be more concerned with what over limits, and proper licenses, rather then AIS. But it seems AIS is the new fab, so that is all they are concerned about now.

[reinhard1]

i dont know if it's a triplecation of duties. they all have a share in that duty. we dont have enough CO's so the coast guard helps out not doing the CO's job, but performing one of their duties of their job clasifications. in a sense they all help each other out. i remember when my brother and i were fishing in the Duluth area we had a sherriff check us out on the water. the sherriff recognized my brother [he was a Duluth police officer at the time] and commented that he appreciated the help the Duluth Police give them at times.

i'm not too worried who stops me on the water or in the woods realy. most are good people and just doing their job. however we do need more CO's. good luck.

[JimBuck]

I'd say we always need more CO's out there. What I can do without is funding 2+ people per launch to sit in a chair check for invasives.

[nofishfisherman]

I just did a little calculation. Based on the square miles in Minnesota and the number of lakes it looks like if we distributed CO's equally across Minnesota each CO would be responsible for an area of 400 square miles and almost 60 lakes. Thats alot of ground for one man to cover.

I don't really think you can argue for less CO's and have much of a leg to stand on. Fact is there are far too few of them as it is to adequately service the state and the millions of hunters and fisherman. If you want to argue there are too many people sitting at boat ramps looking for invasive species then you can probably join of the many invasive species threads throughout the forum. You'll find good company on those threads.

Now if you are talking about traditional law enforcment I would say some cities probably do have too many LEO's while other cities could use several more. I know when I lived in the burbs it was common to see 3-4 cop cars pulled behind a single car that was being cited for some sort of traffic violation. No drug searches or anything like that, just bored cops with nothing else to do.

[Stick in Mud]

I realize this is probably going to make some peoples heads explode but heres a thought. All this talk about cutting budgets, etc etc but I did notice that the DNR keeps hiring people and they keep wanting to hire AIS Inspectors. Do we REALLY need this many people out inspecting law abiding citizens to see if they have a whistle in their boat or other misc perceived offenses or is this just a "Jobs" thing and a"Funds Raiser" for the state? I have been checked several times and never had a problem with being checked and can honestly say I have only witnessed one incident which required a TIP call. I feel TIP Hotline is a much better and cheaper resource than hiring a bunch of fulltime people. Just a thought.

I guess the important point here is "law-abiding citizens." As mnfishinguy says, the rates of non-compliance (especially for the AIS laws--like them or not) are very high. And I dunno....I fish on Mille Lacs and the Mississippi River about 90% of the time, and there are almost always violations of some sort on the water. Between (on Mille Lacs) guys keeping illegal length fish, keeping too many fish, not having their lights on after dusk, using multiple lines, breaking the night ban rules, drinking too mcuh while driving the boat, and (on the Mississippi) fishing for out-of-season species, keeping fish out of season, keeping too many 20+ inch walleyes, using multiple lines, dumping dead fish on shore, etc., I think we could use more CO's than we have now.

Obviously, the majority of people DO follow the law. But a lot of them don't. I've called TIP numerous times, and I agree that it's a good resource, but without the CO's to actually show up and do something about it, what good is it??

[Tracker55]

Define "Non Compliance". A cup of water in the live well? Didn't change the water in his minnow bucket? Most statistics can be manipulated to say whatever you want them to and I think this is the case in some of these reports. I totally agree with trying to stop ASI spread, but sooner or latter there needs to be some common sense involved.

[Riverratpete]

Define "Non Compliance". A cup of water in the live well? Didn't change the water in his minnow bucket? Most statistics can be manipulated to say whatever you want them to and I think this is the case in some of these reports. I totally agree with trying to stop ASI spread, but sooner or latter there needs to be some common sense involved.

You make a good point and I guess that where I'm kinda going with this thought..your right, statistically per square mile we could certainly use more CO's to keep an eye on the goofballs. Everyone also knows people manipulate the statistics to fit their story also but do we REALLY need all these people looking out for Whistles, Fire Extinquishers, throwables, etc? It seems to me that we participated in water recreation for many years WITHOUT all these rules and laws and we seemed to do just fine, Once again, just a thought

[itchmesir]

Fire a couple cops in each county and replace them with COs.. or rather than fire them.. cross-train them.. why is it only in these two situations that one cannot do the others job? it happens in other forms of employment all the time.. You guys complain about COs.. but how often do you see 2 or more cop cars lined up next to each other in a parking lot just shooting the sh*t? COs overall have more jurisdiction than a normal officer anyways

[Stick in Mud]

It seems to me that we participated in water recreation for many years WITHOUT all these rules and laws and we seemed to do just fine, Once again, just a thought

Um, when was that, exactly?

[Knoc]

I live on a lake, fish pretty close to daily year round and have for years. I havnt been stopped or checked by a DNR for I would say a good 8 or 9 years. Im always in compliance and follow all rules and laws when it comes to fishing so I know I never have anything to worry about but to me this shows there is no abundance of dnr's out there.

[cavalierowner]

I live on a lake, fish pretty close to daily year round and have for years. I havnt been stopped or checked by a DNR for I would say a good 8 or 9 years. Im always in compliance and follow all rules and laws when it comes to fishing so I know I never have anything to worry about but to me this shows there is no abundance of dnr's out there.

I'm with you. I'm 63 and have been fishing since I was old enough to hang onto a dropline over the side of a rented boat. I have been checked twice in my life, both times ice fishing. I was also checked once deer hunting; in fact the CO helped me drag out the deer I had just shot!! I wonder where all the CO's are. Maybe I just don't fish and hunt in the areas they normally patrol.

[Tom7227]

According to Outdoor News there are 25 openings in the authorized size of Conservation Officers due largely to retirements. The current class of 12 still won't bring it up to full strength. I suspect they face about 10% loss by retirements over the next number of years and so they should have classes on a nearly annual basis. 125 officers to cover the entire State seems to me to be far from having too many.

[Comit 2]

Quote:

I realize this is probably going to make some peoples heads explode but heres a thought. All this talk about cutting budgets, etc etc but I did notice that the DNR keeps hiring people and they keep wanting to hire AIS Inspectors. Do we REALLY need this many people out inspecting law abiding citizens to see if they have a whistle in their boat or other misc perceived offenses or is this just a "Jobs" thing and a"Funds Raiser" for the state? I have been checked several times and never had a problem with being checked and can honestly say I have only witnessed one incident which required a TIP call. I feel TIP Hotline is a much better and cheaper resource than hiring a bunch of fulltime people. Just a thought.

What do you mean I can't do this? I've been doing it for 30 year!

Just kidding.

20 years ago we didn't know what a Zebra mussel was. 20 years ago we didn't know what eurasian milfoil was. 40 year ago Elm trees were everywhere. Today we are loosing our Ash trees.

Maybe you and I are law abiding. Maybe the guy with the boat in front of us is not. Do you think profiling is the way to go? Who would we (they) look for? Because 60% of the people on the water I see are doing something they shouldn't be doing. From killing sheepshead and throwing them back to dumping the minnow bucket before they leave the lake.

What do you mean I can't do this? I've been doing it for 30 year!

[Slabasaurus]

20 years ago we didn't know what a Zebra mussel was. 20 years ago we didn't know what eurasian milfoil was.

20 years ago we were having PSA's on the radio about milfoil and how to take steps to prevent it.

[chasineyes]

Quote:

I wonder where all the CO's are

Someone might have an answer for me...Do they (CO's) tend to get called into court to defend their tickets, citations, land use violations, BWI's, etc.etc.. If that's the case then I'm guessing that would consume a LARGE amount of their time.

[toughguy]

According to Outdoor News there are 25 openings in the authorized size of Conservation Officers due largely to retirements. The current class of 12 still won't bring it up to full strength. I suspect they face about 10% loss by retirements over the next number of years and so they should have classes on a nearly annual basis. 125 officers to cover the entire State seems to me to be far from having too many.

I'll miss the old school guys. The newer guys aren't nearly as friendly. I actually enjoy talking to most of the older guys. The new COs tend to make you feel like a criminal even though you're not doing anything wrong. Problem is with so many rules now days it's difficult to be 100% confident you're legal.