K_Josh87 Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 Take it for what its worth, but this is a photo of some retro foam done about 2 years ago on a siding job we are doing right now... I don't have much experience, other than another customer had a "mock" wall section he made out of studs and plexi glass and had them fill when they did his house so he could moniter how it held up over time... and his had shrunk significantly... as so has this... essentially rendering it useless IMO, anyone out there have more experience with this stuff??? So far from what I have seen I would have a hard time recommending it to my customers.... 1/2" or 3/4" Foam board below the siding would due much more than this stuff in this particular house... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CAMAN Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 Ouch! Has the manufacturer been contacted? I'd be curious what they say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pushbutton Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 Long story short, but was owed some money and received an application in trade on a previously non insulated house, and do suspect my walls look something like that. Never really felt or saw in heating bills with the "remarkable difference". Alway wondered if it was just hastily applied because of the circumstance or wether the product it self simply does not live up to its billing.....probably a little bit of both. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cavalierowner Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 Well that sure didn't work!! I've always been suspect of any of the fills with all the blocking, conduit, etc. that's in a wall. Easy to do a demo under ideal conditions when you can see what you're doing, maybe not so much when you get out in the field under less than ideal conditions or with a crew that may not be experts. I've seen a lot of material failures over the years and I can tell you that 9 times out of 10 the manufacturer's starting point is improper installation. Sometimes it's true, sometimes not.One of the best comments I ever heard was in a presentation of a super-insulated glass. The presenter was claiming that we could reduce our heating costs by some big percentage. A guy spoke up and said that, with all the other energy saving things he installed, pretty soon the gas company would be sending him a check! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amateurfishing Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 what is retro foam? not same as rigid foam, is it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cavalierowner Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 amateurfishing said: what is retro foam? not same as rigid foam, is it? I looked at their HSOforum. It's the kind of foam that goes into the wall as a "sort-of liquid" and expands and solidifies as it cures. Just like canned foam. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K_Josh87 Posted March 14, 2012 Author Share Posted March 14, 2012 Amaturefish, No it is not... it is a product sold to insulate homes with no insualtion in them with minimal impact on the home... they drill 2" holes in each stud cavity and fill it... so, no, not at all like rigid foam... or the closed cell spray foam that is sprayed between the stud cavities with the stud cavities open... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amateurfishing Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 Kunz_Josh said: Amaturefish, No it is not... it is a product sold to insulate homes with no insualtion in them with minimal impact on the home... they drill 2" holes in each stud cavity and fill it... so, no, not at all like rigid foam... or the closed cell spray foam that is sprayed between the stud cavities with the stud cavities open... ohh, we were planning on doing that someday for soundproofing rooms that are already finished...does not sound smart now, may be better off just pulling down 1 side of sheet rock & adding fiberglass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom7227 Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 Anyone have ideas on why this happened? I don't know if it should be a condemnation of the product. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 Would the spray foam stuff in a can do this as well? I was thinking about using that around the window openings before trimming the inside. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cavalierowner Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 It's very commonly used in the gaps around windows. Just be sure you get the right stuff that's designed for that use. It's the stuff that has minimal and low pressure expansion. If you use the wrong foam, you can actually warp the window frame. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CAMAN Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 Dave said: Would the spray foam stuff in a can do this as well? I was thinking about using that around the window openings before trimming the inside. This is not the same stuff. RetroFoam has zero expansive properties, they basically pump the material into the wall and it hardens. And from the little bit of research I have done about this issue it sounds like it's from shrinkage. From the specs on the product it states it has a 1-2% shrinkage during curing. And if you calculate that out on an 8 foot wall that is nearly 2 inches of shrinkage! More than enough to do what is pictured. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K_Josh87 Posted March 16, 2012 Author Share Posted March 16, 2012 which in my mind really defeats the purpose... it just concentrates the air movement, or creates cracks throughout... and really defeats the purpose... Amuture... it may still work for sound proofing, but probably not the BEST sounds barrier, but better than nothing and less work.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cavalierowner Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 amateurfishing said: ohh, we were planning on doing that someday for soundproofing rooms that are already finished...does not sound smart now, may be better off just pulling down 1 side of sheet rock & adding fiberglass Another option would be to add an additional layer of 5/8" sheetrock on one side of the wall. That will give you a slightly better sound rating than insulation in the cavity. Just be sure to think about how you deal with doors, receptacles or other things that would be complicated by the extra thickness. Remember too that the door is by far the weakest point in any sound wall. An air leak = a sound leak. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 cavalierowner said: It's very commonly used in the gaps around windows. Just be sure you get the right stuff that's designed for that use. It's the stuff that has minimal and low pressure expansion. If you use the wrong foam, you can actually warp the window frame. Thanks for the info! Just didn't want to have it deteriorate over time. Maybe I'll just do it the old fashioned way but will look into the spray foam stuff for windows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leech~~ Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 To me that way the studs look so dark and with the brown on the foam. I would say it got wet and froze. That may have caused it to crack up when it expanded when frozen? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K_Josh87 Posted March 17, 2012 Author Share Posted March 17, 2012 well, the damage tot he studs etc where prior to the new roof being put on, the retro foam was after... But, it is POSSIBLE it got damp... bit I have found this all over the house looking into the holes they drill to fill the walls with... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cavalierowner Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 Kunz_Josh said: well, the damage tot he studs etc where prior to the new roof being put on, the retro foam was after... But, it is POSSIBLE it got damp... bit I have found this all over the house looking into the holes they drill to fill the walls with... If this is showing up all over I would tend to look at something other than water intrusion. Roofs or siding does not usually leak everywhere. If the house was old enough to have no insulation or very little insulation, maybe there's no vapor retarder either and the water vapor is condensing in the cavity. It might be worth suggesting that the homeowner consider painting the entire interior of their house with a vapor retarder paint. I've never actually done any research on the paint, but a couple people I know have and have said the specs look good on paper. I mean, it couldn't hurt anything.It would also be interesting to send the photos to the manufacturer and see what they say just for giggles. They may actually listen to you because, as a contractor, you have the power to use or not use their products. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K_Josh87 Posted March 17, 2012 Author Share Posted March 17, 2012 Oh Know, the damage was not eveywhere, this is where another roof dumps... the rest of the house looks fabulous as far as the wood goes, but if you look in to the holes they cut to put the foam in, you will see cracks in the foam throughout the home... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broadside Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 Personal message me for all the answers you want regarding RetroFoam. Shrinkage is from the water content in the foam when it is mixed. I have it my house and it looks the same as this after 10 months. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K_Josh87 Posted March 21, 2012 Author Share Posted March 21, 2012 so once again... Whats the use? I highly doubt the gain is worth the expense if this is what it looks like... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broadside Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 It is supposed to be an affordable option to upgrade your walls insulation R-value without taking sheathing or sheetrock down. The foam is water based so that it can be injected into the walls without damage. The biggest problem with this particular foam is that there is too high of a water content and thats where the shrinkage and breakdown of the foam comes from. There is another injection foam out there that has far less water and only .005% of shrinkage. The Company RetroFoam will not do anything about the problems as they state that all the warnings on shrinkage is clearly stated in their MSDS sheets. Its pretty sad but there are ALOT of homes in southern MN with this product installed. If you dig on the internet for problems with RetroFoam you will be amazed at all the problems and complaints. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K_Josh87 Posted March 21, 2012 Author Share Posted March 21, 2012 So, A cheap out short cut at its finest? I guess as long as people are willing to buy it, they will sell it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom7227 Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 I guess the question really ought to be framed around whether the stuff is doing any harm and is it doing any good. There obviously are better products that will insulate a home with much better results. But what about a situation where a homeowner can not afford the option of tearing off the entire exterior of the home or the interior?If you can get some insulating result from this product for say $2,000 are you better off than facing a $15,000 insulating/residing that you cannot afford? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PurpleFloyd Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 I gues i was thinking the same as Tom. While that certainly doesn't look like it made the house totally tight, It does look like it did make it better than it was and it was non invasive compared to tearing out the interior or exterior to expose the studs and insulate with traditional methods.Remember that the traditional product for doing this type of non invasive insulation was to use blown in cellulose insulation and with that you would have a big problem with settling over time that also leads to heat loss and if there is condensation with Cellulose it get marginalized pretty quickly also. I would take a look at how your example compares to similar non invasive insulating products to judge it's value and then compare the cost of a complete tear out to insulate it with fiberglass or closed cell and see how long the pay back is for the latter with the increased R value you get. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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