Cal. for Youth Deer?

[Gus]

I'm starting to think about what gun to start my son deer hunting with.

Everyone I hunt with shoots 30.06. I started with a 30-30, and I took my first small deer with it. As soon as my younger brother started hunting I was moved up to the 30.06. Probably too early. I feared that gun and developed some bad habits because of it. Now, older, wiser (I hope), I am starting to think about what to start my son with so he doesn't develop bad habits like I did when young.

I have a friend who started, and still hunts with a .243. However he has been less than thrilled with vital shots and only takes head shots. That sours my perspective because I don't want a caliber that isn't up to the task. However, feel free to correct my perspective on this caliber. He's the only one I know who shoots one.

Other thoughts are the 30-30. Another option which really has me intrigued is the 7mm-08.

I've never shot the 7mm-08 nor a .243. Nor have I then killed an animal with one. So for those who have, what do you think? Can a 10-12 year old handle a 7mm-08 or should I look for something smaller?

Sorry to get long winded, I'm just looking for some advice on what to try since I haven't shot or killed anything in 20+ years with anything other than an 30.06.

[creepworm]

It is hard to beat a 243 for a youth caliber. They do have plenty of stopping power for deer. They are a very popular caliber in our deer camp, even with people that own larger calibers.

A 7mm-08 would also be a good choice, it will have more kick but is not a gun he will outgrow so that is a plus. Another caliber to look at would be the 308. It is probably along the same lines of the 7mm-08 as far as kick.

[charliepete]

7mm 08 and the .243 Kick about the same. The 25-06 is another in that same ball bark.

The .243 is my favorite out of the lot. If you're buddy has to take head shots on deer with his, he is doing something wrong. Get a quality 100 grain bullet and it will drop deer no problem. The .243 also makes for a nice predator gun if you're boy opts for a 30/06 like everyone else in deer camp when he's older.

[TooTallTom]

Hi Gus,

Pick up a .30-06 and some reduced-recoil ammunition. Your son won't learn to fear a wallop (but he might not anyway...) and will have be able to beg/ borrow/ steal right in deer camp (or the car/ truck) if he forgets to bring his ammo along. Best of both worlds.

[Gordie]

A .243 is very capable of bringing a deer down if hit in the vitals as well as any other cailber you have mentioned.

I like the option of the 30-06 with the reduced reciol loads but that gun will be alot heavier for him also just something to think of.

I have a .243 in single shot that both my boys have shot and they both like it.

30-30 can go wrong with this gun either it is a great gun for deer.

My Oldest boy 15 yrs old shoots a 30-30 thats what he wanted but he started with the .243

My youngest soots a 357 mag rifle in a single shot and he also like shoting the .243

both boys have shot my .308 but said they are not ready to step up to the 06 yet its funny becuse they both shot 12 ga at ducks and they both have shot my 10 ga

I will not force them to shot if they do not want to its there decision.

[mnviking28]

I started my wife about 4 years ago with a 7mm-08, my son will be getting a 7mm-08 this summer. Both will be Tikka T3's. Gun drives tacks, about the same recoil as a .243, with more knockdown power. My wife has shot 2 deer with hers. She shoots it very well. I think it would be a very reasonable gun for your son, both recoil, quality of firearm and it won't break the bank either.

[Gus]

Thanks guys. I'll do some checking into the 25-06 and some more on the .243. I knew there would be some more info on that gun. Keep the suggestions coming. I have time to research. I just don't want to make a mistake. I will look into reduced recoil rounds as well. I had a box of those long ago when I was trying to break my own old habits. I had kind of forgot about them.

Keep the opinions rolling!

[Gus]

I do really like the looks of the 7mm-08 on paper. I just don't have any practical experience behind the trigger on any of these guns. Glad to hear I'm at least looking in the right ball park.

Oh darn, I might just have to buy several. he he he. Wife would kill me.

[mnviking28]

The two deer my wife have shot were both adult does, both shot in the chest, one at about 125 yards, one at about 150. The furthest either made it was bout 30 yards. That 140 grain Federal Fusion load seems to shoot real well out of it. I really like the heavier bullet in case you hit a shoulder blade. Have had it happen with a .243, it didn't turn out well. I used to shoot 100 grain bullets through it as well. The gun was retired to a varmit rifle. Never once regretted upgrading her to a little bigger caliber when she wanted to hunt.

[hockeybc69]

I go by a simple rule....

Its not the gun, its the shooter behind the gun.

A .223 is deadly, but in the wrong hands, its a disaster...

No simple answer.

How capable is the person behind the gun? That will help in a decision.

[paul pachowicz]

What I like abut my 7mm-08 most is the bullet weight spread. 110-175 which puts it in a category of taking most game on the No American continent,excluding large bear.

[Fins-n-feathers]

I started with a 30-30. I think it is a good caliber for a young hunter.

[swamptiger]

Quote:

I do really like the looks of the 7mm-08 on paper.

7mm-08 is a good choice for a low recoil flat shooter that gets the job done. Another good one is a .260 Remington. Savage is chambering rifles in the .260 now. If you ever plan to do any reloading the .260 is a great choice because of the wide range of bullet weights available.

[monstermoose78]

30-06 with light recoil loads and they they can use it forever just switch to normal loads. Light recoil loads are good out to 300 yards.

[mtheis]

That is what I am doing with my 308. Using 125g bullets really cut down on the

recoil. Now almost all the ammunition manufacturers make reduced recoil rounds plenty good enough for hunting deer.

[DinnerPail]

Everybody here talks about their favorate caliber but the more important thing is to have a gun that fits properly. If he isn't comfortable shooting it and it not fitting him right it won't matter what caliber it is.

[nofishfisherman]

I'd also suggest either a 30.06 or .270 with the reduced recoil rounds. That way you can buy one rifle that will last him the rest of his life. If cost is a concern the Savage Axis is a great starter rifle and runs about $300 with a packaged scope. Just look around at different stores because the different stores package it with different scopes. Fleet Farm had theirs packaged with a pretty decent bushnell that I liked a lot more than Gander Mountains pacakage.

I shot the Remington Core Lokt Reduced recoil this past year due to sholder issues and it really did eliminate a lot of recoil. I'm also a new shooter so it has helped me to focus on fundamentals without thinking about recoil in the back of my mind.

Also both Federal and Remmington make a low recoil round that run the same cost as a traditional load. The Remmington reduced recoil claim to be comparable to the traditional round out to about 200 yards so you could shoot the low recoil at the range and then go hunting with the traditioanl full load and you'll be within an inch of where you sighted in your gun at.

[MinDak Hunter]

Here is a table that I use when comparing rifle recoil. I cut and pasted the .243, 7mm-08, .25-06, .308, .30-06 so it would be a quick and EASY comparison. I highly recommend the 7mm-08 it’s a necked down .308 that has easier recoil, a heavier bullet than the .243, just an overall good gun.

Side note- My wife shoots a .25-06 and that thing BARKS, I won’t start my kids on it just 'cause it’s SO LOUD.

Rifle Recoil Table

By Chuck Hawks

For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction; that is one of the physical laws of our universe. This means that the momentum of a rifle's reaction will exactly equal the momentum of the bullet and powder gasses ejected from the barrel. In the shooting sports we call that reaction recoil or "kick." It can be measured or computed empirically, and has been for this recoil table.

However, perceived recoil, what the shooter feels, is a highly subjective matter. It is influenced by many factors. One of the most important of these is the fit and shape of the rifle stock. A good recoil pad can help soften the blow to the shooter's shoulder. Gas-operated semi-automatic actions reduce apparent recoil by spreading it over a longer period of time. These sorts of things cannot be accounted for in a recoil table. Also, please understand that there are dozens of loads for any given bullet weight in any cartridge that will produce the same velocity, but a different amount of recoil. So the figures in any recoil table should be taken as approximate. Never-the-less, the table below should give a reasonably accurate comparison of the recoil of most popular rifle cartridges.

It is worth remembering that the majority of authorities agree that recoil of over twenty foot pounds will cause most shooters to develop a serous flinch, which is ruinous to bullet placement (the prime component of killing power). Fifteen foot pounds is probably about the maximum recoil energy most shooters feel reasonably comfortable with, particularly at the shooting range, where most serious marksmanship practice occurs.

While recoil energy determines how hard the blow to the shoulder feels, recoil velocity determines how abrupt the blow to the shoulder feels. My subjective impression is that, with a well designed stock, recoil velocity above about 10 fps begins to feel like a sharp rap on the shoulder rather than an abrupt push.

I estimate that fifteen foot pounds of free recoil energy and 10 fps of recoil velocity represent the approximate upper limit of the comfort level. Above that recoil becomes increasingly intrusive. Also, the effects of recoil are cumulative. The longer you shoot, and the harder the rifle kicks, the more likely you are to flinch. These are good things to remember when comparing rifle cartridges, and at the range.

In the table below rifle weight is given in pounds, free recoil energy is given in foot pounds, and free recoil velocity is given in feet-per-second. All recoil values have been rounded off to one decimal place.

The recoil energy and recoil velocity figures are taken from various sources including the recoil nomograph in the Handloader's Digest 8th Edition, various online recoil calculators, the Remington Shoot! program or calculated from the formula given in the Lyman Reloading Handbook, 43rd Edition.

For an expanded version of this table showing more loads, including British, European, wildcat, obsolescent American and proprietary calibers, see the "Expanded Rifle Recoil Table" on the Tables, Charts and Lists Page.

Cartridge (Wb@MV) Rifle Weight, Recoil energy, Recoil velocity

.243 Win. (75 at 3400) 8.5, 7.2, 7.4

.243 Win. (95 at 3100) 7.25, 11.0, 9.9

.243 Win. (100 at 2960) 7.5, 8.8, 8.7

.25-06 Rem. (100 at 3230) 8.0, 11.0, 9.4

.25-06 Rem. (120 at 3000) 8.0, 12.5, 10.0

7mm-08 Rem. (120 at 3000) 7.5, 12.1, 10.2

7mm-08 Rem. (140 at 2860) 8.0, 12.6, 10.1

.308 Win. (150 at 2800) 7.5, 15.8, 11.7

.308 Win. (165 at 2700) 7.5, 18.1, 12.5

.308 Win. (180 at 2610) 8.0, 17.5, 11.9

.30-06 Spfd. (150 at 2910) 8.0, 17.6, 11.9

.30-06 Spfd. (165 at 2900) 8.0, 20.1, 12.7

.30-06 Spfd. (180 at 2700) 8.0, 20.3, 12.8

I can't get this to format correctly so I hope you can read this.

[fishuhalik]

i started with an sks & hated it. bought it cuz i was 11 & it was cheap. i never killed a deer with it though. upgraded to a 30-30 at 12 & killed my first 3 deer with it. then my dad bought a .243 when i was 14 & i used that til i was 17. killed 4 deer with it & had no issues with wounded deer. i even took one at 420 paces & it went about 50yds before expiring. perfect heart/lung shot. i was kinda proud of that shot at 15. when i graduated my uncle gave me a georgous remington 700 in 25-06 that he had done some trigger work on & it had a leupold 4-12x scope on it. i've been using that ever since & have killed, lets see here, 11? deer with it. the only one that went more than 50yds was my fault. shot it running full bore straight away down my shooting lane & it was a bad shot. still recovered the deer but it went about 1/2 mile. never shot or know anyone that owns a 7mm-08 but i've heard it's a good round. anyways, point of this post is that the 25-06 is my favorite hands-down. mine is incredibly accurate. i know some dont agree with long shots (we discussed it at length in a post a few months ago) but i wouldnt hesitate pulling the trigger at 600yds if i have a good, stable rest. i've shot it alot at that distance though & am very comfortable with it. the .243 is a great gun, but your son will outgrow it soon & will be wanting more. the 25-06 is alot more round & you really cant notice the difference in recoil. my wife is an extremely inexperienced shooter & at a small 5' 1" & can shoot it all day. bullets are a little more expensive but when you think about it, what's another $15/box when you factor in all the $ you spend in a season? anyways, good luck & you really can't go wrong with any of the calibers listed!

[Gus]

Thank you all for your input. MinDak Hunter, the table is great info.

My son is a few years out from actually getting to hunt yet, so I do not have him comfortable with any firearm yet besides his red ryder.

I was thinking I'd start investing in a gun now and get myself at least comfortable with the caliber and gun before unleashing it on him. Thinking more about it, that might not be the best plan either unless I can come up with a gun that is able to fit him and myself with only slight mods. Maybe a stock swap or something.

He'll need gun safety and a lot more time with bb guns and then the 22 before embarking on any other rifle or shotgun.

What can I say, I'm just so anxious to get my buddy hunting with me.

He's turning 6 this summer. I know I know... A bit early.

Hopefully the discussion helps more people than just me. I think it is all great info.

[fishuhalik]

gus, my son turns 6 this year too, & i cant wait for him to start hunting! he started sitting with me at 4 & he loves it