Why keep baiting illegal for deer? Read this article!

[lichen fox]

I can't think of one reason why it should stay illegal!

And, I don't remember ever reading anything that actually documented two separate animals eating at a common bait or feed source and passing a disease to another...is there a video out there somewhere that proves this "theory"...

As for altering "natural" deer movement...if my neighgbors field to the south has standing beans all the deer eat there rather than on the plowed wheat stubble on my other neighbors field across the road to the east...if the field to the south is plowed wheat the following year and the field to the east is standing beans, then the deer all cross the road and eat on the field to the east...So, there are many things that "alter" deer movement...someone just has to step up and tell us what is "natural" and proper...then we'll have the facts to determine what should be outlawed, and what should not...so, I agree with Dave...it's all someone's opinion or "theory"... Ethical is just a measure of an idividual person's consience and is not necessarily a belief that is shared by everyone... Just as some deem it "unethical" to teach creationism in public schools!

[Basseyes]

The problem is that none of those reasons are rooted in fact only opinions.

The fact is there are to many unknowns to predicate what will or wont happen, to base anything on facts. It's all conjecture. We are speculating outcomes, nothing more.

The probability of conflicts that could arise from baiting are reason enough, to keeping baiting illegal. The various unknowns, are to numerous to blindly step into. To take a risk on legalizing baiting, without at least acknowledging and understanding what those risk factors could be, is complete ignorance. But that's just my opinion.

[lakevet]

The whitetail baiting industry originated in the Southeastern US. Spread from there. The farther Northwest you go, the more opposition and the stricter the laws against. And the better the hunting. Who goes to Alabama, Georgia, Florida if you can do Montana, Wyoming or Colorado instead?

Baiting was legal for years in Minnesota, and virtually no one did it. Not even poachers! Without question, it is our hunting tradition to NOT bait. No laws needed (imagine that). Then the Southeast USA deer baiting industry comes along and expands its market. And we have another thing to fight about. And legislate about.

It will be an issue that will persist as long term. And hopefully will remain illegal long term. And hopefully no more disease outbreaks.

We have done something no other state has done, dodge the bullet on 2 diseases in our deer population. TB almost certainly and very likely CWD. Without question, the baiting ban is part of that success.

lakevet

[lichen fox]

Well put Basseyes...in all management practices we should weigh the Risks and the Benefits with the desired outcome in mind...in the case of deer it is population management with respect to a number of factors including the deer herd health, forest health, deer crop depradation, available habitat, etc...So, with that in mind, if they need to harvest more deer in a specific area, they could make it legal to use bait in that area until the population goal is reached..."theoreticly" you may be able to reach the population goal in a single season and not risk overbrousing by deer on available habitat, and deer coming in contact with domestic livestock feed during the winter months...

[Big Dave2]

Quote:

Can you supply me with any facts why robbing a bank should be illegal? Morally and ethically it is wrong to steal but where are the facts to support it being a law? I need facts Dave!

Talk about a stretch!

The fact is that when someone robs a bank they take money that does not belong to them. How on earth could you possibly equate this arguement to baiting deer? If I were to bait deer, who exactly am I commiting a crime against?

[Big Dave2]

Quote:

Without question, it is our hunting tradition to NOT bait.

It is also our hunting tradition to party hunt, drive deer and shoot any legal buck we see regardless of antler size but some people want to change these traditions and are succeeding.

[Gordie]

Dont forget all the assumptions too.

never assume because you all no what that does

[Gordie]

The whitetail baiting industry originated in the Southeastern US. Spread from there. The farther Northwest you go, the more opposition and the stricter the laws against. And the better the hunting. Who goes to Alabama, Georgia, Florida if you can do Montana, Wyoming or Colorado instead?

Baiting was legal for years in Minnesota, and virtually no one did it. Not even poachers! Without question, it is our hunting tradition to NOT bait. No laws needed (imagine that). Then the Southeast USA deer baiting industry comes along and expands its market. And we have another thing to fight about. And legislate about.

It will be an issue that will persist as long term. And hopefully will remain illegal long term. And hopefully no more disease outbreaks.

We have done something no other state has done, dodge the bullet on 2 diseases in our deer population. TB almost certainly and very likely CWD. Without question, the baiting ban is part of that success.

lakevet

very well put lakevet very well put

[Musky Buck]

I'm all over it guys, have access to a gravel truck or 2, gravity boxes, emergency bait calls will be doubled, but you always get the 4th pile for free !

[Bear55]

Talk about a stretch!

The fact is that when someone robs a bank they take money that does not belong to them. How on earth could you possibly equate this arguement to baiting deer? If I were to bait deer, who exactly am I commiting a crime against?

It was meant to be a stretch, I wasn't comparing the two, it was just an example that facts sometimes have very little to do with what laws are on the books. Can you really prove right from wrong with facts? A lot of laws are nothing more than public opinion. All you ask for are facts, you claim everything is an opinion and because something is an opionion it shouldn't apply to any baiting laws. I would disagree.

[jay83196]

Lake vet, I agree with some of what you said good points however , baiting being illegal is part of mn not having disease issues just makes no sense. People recreational feed all year long would certainly have as much or more impact than a couple months of baiting. I don't see people getting on that issue, make it all illegal or not at all, if the argument is disease. If argument is population control then fine but they can spread the disease in July eating in a neighbors feeder just as easy as a bait pile in November...

[hockeybc69]

Good!

[john skarie]

I would argue that in regards to fish/game laws there are no facts involved, but opinions based on a variety of issues.

Wildlife and fish managers use thier knowledge to form opinions on what is best for our wildlife in regards to bag limits, seasons, ways of taking fish and game etc.

If it were all based on fact then every state would be the same, or close to it.

JS

[lakevet]

Lake vet, I agree with some of what you said good points however , baiting being illegal is part of mn not having disease issues just makes no sense. People recreational feed all year long would certainly have as much or more impact than a couple months of baiting. I don't see people getting on that issue, make it all illegal or not at all, if the argument is disease. If argument is population control then fine but they can spread the disease in July eating in a neighbors feeder just as easy as a bait pile in November...

When TB and CWD popped up, a total ban on feeding was imposed in addition to baiting. Once a disease was discovered, there was enough compelling reasons to impose ban on feeding and not have it overturned by political/public opinion. General public, once educated on facts and desiring a healthy deer herd, would support bans. When disease is not present then political/public opinion wins and/or swings towards not wanting bans.

Basically we prefer to wait until a crisis, then hope the medicine will cure. I prefer to do preventative medicine and not get sick in the first place.

Besides being sick and taking medicine is no fun and costly. Just ask the deer hunters in the TB zone or the CWD zone.

Or the farmers in the TB zone.

lakevet

[lakevet]

It is also our hunting tradition to party hunt, drive deer and shoot any legal buck we see regardless of antler size but some people want to change these traditions and are succeeding.

I respectfully differ. This is my view:

It is NOT our hunting tradition to bait for deer.

It IS our hunting tradition to party hunt, drive deer and shoot any DEER we see regardless of SEX but DNR wanted to change these traditions and succeeded. Bucks only and antlerless permits helped the deer herd rebound but also "retrained" hunters into buck blasting robots.......

Result was a new "tradition" of bucks only hunters and 40% of us won't shoot a doe under any circumstances.

End result is any legal buck is shot, even when does are plentiful. That is NOT my family's or Minnesota's tradition before 1970.

And buck hunters want to bait like south Texas trophy hunters. Don't hear too many meat hunters asking to bait. They prefer to have the corn on the plate next to the venison and the apples in the pie for dessert. If the apples or corn are not fit for the table, feed them to the hogs, cattle, or poultry. Tossing out in the woods didn't even cross their minds.

We need balance. We tend to swing from the ditch on one side of the road right across the centerline into the other ditch. Good thing the deer herd is resilient!

Boy is this going to get off topic

lakevet

[jay83196]

Lol....Ok well again its not banned now so don't argue we shouldn't bait for sake of spreading disease when 365 days a year more bait is put out with no regard for spread of disease...

[Big Dave2]

Lol....Ok well again its not banned now so don't argue we shouldn't bait for sake of spreading disease when 365 days a year more bait is put out with no regard for spread of disease...

Jay is absolutely right!

I will cease my arguement on this issue as soon as recreational deer feeding is ended in Minnesota. Until then it shows me that there is no serious effort to curb the spread of any disease in the Whitetail herd.

[Big Dave2]

Quote:

I respectfully differ. This is my view:

It is NOT our hunting tradition to bait for deer.

It IS our hunting tradition to party hunt, drive deer and shoot any DEER we see regardless of SEX but DNR wanted to change these traditions and succeeded. Bucks only and antlerless permits helped the deer herd rebound but also "retrained" hunters into buck blasting robots.......

The difference is that those people who want to end party hunting, deer drives, shooting choice, etc.... effectively want to kill your traditions. What I am proposing won't kill anyones traditions in fact it may or may not start new ones for people but it won't take anything away from anyone.

[Jameson]

...I will cease my arguement on this issue as soon as recreational deer feeding is ended in Minnesota. Until then it shows me that there is no serious effort to curb the spread of any disease in the Whitetail herd.

Than please put your efforts into banning recreational deer feeding. You will have my support.

[Gordie]

The difference is that those people who want to end party hunting, deer drives, shooting choice, etc.... effectively want to kill your traditions. What I am proposing won't kill anyones traditions in fact it may or may not start new ones for people but it won't take anything away from anyone.

Yes it does take away somethings from sombody.

The bait pile or bait feeder that is placed on the feild to attract deer from as far away as deer can pin point it they will go to it and the people not baiting will suffer.

You take away the tradtiton of not baiting and just plain hunting.

I know thats just your opinon but my opinon is just as important to not have it legalized and to say that it wont affect the spread of disease is far fetched but thats your opinon. Also look at states that bait legally those states have wider spead disease than those who dont but thats my opinon. Look at this way now this is just my opinon but if you put a pile of bait on the ground the deer come to that same exact spot to feed so they are closer to each other for a higher percent chance for spread of disease and when you have a food plot those deer dont feed in the same exact spot each and every time and yes they feed like that at recreational feeders and they should not be allowed to do that either and just because they are feeding deer that could be a wrong thing to do you dont need to make baiting legal you know: TWO wrongs to make it right.

Thats enough from me and thats my last opinonis

Two wrongs dont make it right

[hockeybc69]

So many assumptions!!!!

[mrklean]

Kansas allows baiting and look at all the big bucks there

[hockeybc69]

Assumptions again! OMG!!!!!

[Basseyes]

I will cease my arguement on this issue as soon as recreational deer feeding is ended in Minnesota.

I have no problem with that.

[lichen fox]

If you're going to ban feeding deer because of the possibility of spreading disease...we better also make it illegal to feed birds, squirrels, racoons and what ever other kind of wildlife people enjoy watching in thier backyard or out the kitchen window...or, doesn't any one care if any of those smaller wild animals get sick and die off...