Seeing bigger deer than last year?

[DHost21]

Im not trying to start an argument about the APR in southeast and whether you are for it or not I am just wondering if people are noticing any differences? Either on game cameras or on stand are you seeing bigger antlers more consistently or not seeing much of a difference yet?

[96trigger]

I am not seeing more big deer (3.5-4.5 YO), but I have a lot more 2.5 year olds, which is nice. Probably double what I normally have which makes sense. Some of them are very nice 2.5 year olds.

[paceman]

same for me 96trigger.....

[96trigger]

If even 1/4 of those 2.5 year olds get through to next year, it will be awesome. I've got a couple on camera that are really nice.

[DHost21]

Good! Im glad to hear people are seeing a little difference. Its gonna be a process im sure to make it bullet proof but to hear more 2.5 year olds are making it is a good thing and then like you said even if just 1/4 of those make it you should see some good changes next year.

[muskiemanAD]

Without a doubt we are seeing more bucks this year and bigger ones too. Most of the time 1.5 year olds make up 75% of the bucks on camera, this year I'd say that number is closer to 50%. I think the number of smaller bucks will go down in the next few years till its about 35-40%.

[Musky Buck]

In my main area no to the bigger deer ? Same ol 1.5 year old bucks and there are 2 that I'm fairly certain are 2.5 year olds, that's the way it's been for a long time now so I can dream about that big buck, that's the truth of the dream it's a dream, in the 80's that was reality as us neighbors were constantly reminded how many true big bucks were roaming in and out of the area, we'd jump them pheasant hunting, see them going to or coming back from duck hunting, or just driving down the road, it is rare, very rare to see a truly big buck around and now with all of us and trailcams it proves it even more, at first we thought oh they got nocturnal but the truth is that isn't even the case. Oh well, there's still that 1 in 10,000 chance and that's good enough for most of us.

[Jarrid Houston]

up Here in Douglas Cty WI, I am a true believer that there are way to many hunting party's buying and using the doe tags. I mean just meat lockers cruising around shooting to fill the freezer. I know of one party that probably took close to 20 deer last year (not kidding). Not a lot of selective harvesting going on around my hunting grounds. And to add to it, it is now evident from a recent report that wolves are eating deer to. So where I live, I have high deer fatality because of a big freeway, meat locker hunters, and predators. SO NOT A LOT OF DEER PERIOD> frustrating. yes..

[bety0108]

MAKE THE ENTIRE STATE A.P.R. MN DNR!!!!!!! or at least get MOWER CO. sucked into the APR zone. PLZ

[eyedawg]

I agree bety

[Musky Buck]

Bety and eyedawg that's a piece of the equation in my area and why we'll never return to a good buck age structure, people that shoot small bucks seem to be able to find a tag for buck # 1 and 2 in some cases and finally tag buck 3 or at least they can muzzleload now and it's like they never rifle hunted, fully licensed, but it doesn't guarantee them another deer, but the damage was done a few weeks earlier. There isn't a 10 acre patch of cover in my area that isn't hunted so people just shoot the largest of what are in a way small deer. So I guess deer hunting or shooting in a way has changed with a lot more days to pull the trigger. Went from either 2 or 4 to a max of 25. With an increase of bow hunting also in the area it's obvious with no simple solution, too much opportunity and too many bodies.

[jerkbait]

MAKE THE ENTIRE STATE A.P.R. MN DNR!!!!!!! or at least get MOWER CO. sucked into the APR zone. PLZ

I disagree. Educate don't mandate!!! It will eventually change the majority of hunters.

[DHost21]

MAKE THE ENTIRE STATE A.P.R. MN DNR!!!!!!! or at least get MOWER CO. sucked into the APR zone. PLZ

I agree!! I would love to see that but I didnt want to turn this into that type of convo. Ive tried it before and its not pretty lol.

Im glad to hear that more young ones are making it though and I really might have to start looking for land down in zone 3 now

[lakevet]

same for me 96trigger.....

paceman,

Are you talking more bigger deer in or out of zone 3? That is a very important question. We are seeing mostly bigger deer, but likely due to high predator activity (timber wolves and coyotes) and a somewhat tougher winter last year. Relative has only seen predators the past 3 sits on the bow stand. Bird hunting last week for me showed less deer sign than past couple years and only jumped one deer, a mature buck.

However there has been for some time now a steadily increasing attitude shift towards letting small bucks walk and shooting antlerless for meat, and hunters pushing that, esp on experienced hunters who have shot a few deer already in their career. And obviously with timbers, we are not talking zone 3.

From my point of view, one should compare APR/cross tagging ban area to the rest of the state. If the rest of the state (especially areas close to apr/ cross tagging ban areas) experiences the desired shift (assume it is older bucks or specifically more antler per buck) without the extra regulations, but instead due to hunter education/internal shift in mindset, that would be a major game changer in this whole debate. If that shows similar improvement statewide, hopefully hunters can get out of the deeply dug in positions they hold, and make decisions on best available facts.

If all one focuses on is the apr/cross tagging zone, you are lacking a control to compare to, which is needed to help reduce outside variables besides the ones being studied.

Which brings up the issue what statistics/measurements do you use to decide to be as objective as possible? QDMA stats are pointing towards a statewide reduction in young bucks in the harvest.

For sure letting the process go the initial 3 years and approaching facts with an open mind at that point is the best way to go.

As that pertains to this post, hopefully people will say where they hunt along with their observations. Gives some validity to a non scientific poll by allowing for a comparison.

For us mostly mature deer but fewer deer in overall numbers.

Area: Zone 1

Lakevet

[hunter322]

I agree with the "educate dont mandate" philosophy as well. By that i mean yes i want better quality deer, nicer bigger racks, but at the same time im the one sheling out the money to hunt the critters let me decide! I used to have the "its brown its down" mentality, but over the last few years ive learned that you have to let the little ones go to get bigger ones. Dont get me wrong, if all i see are little 6s and 8s then by all means yes im going to take one. but i try to pass on em.

[bottom-bouncer]

Dont get me wrong, if all i see are little 6s and 8s then by all means yes im going to take one. but i try to pass on em.

Because your $27 gaurentees you a deer or because you would be less of a hunter if you couldnt tell the guys at work that you got your buck.

[96trigger]

Come on ladies and gentlemen. Lets let zone 3 play out, we are a month away from seeing if there is even a little increase in satisfaction by zone 3 hunters. Lets let zone 3 play out before this topic gets hashed over again. Minnesota is a very diverse state in terms of habitat, what works for one zone, may not work for another.

Obviously with the regs set in place for zone 3, many of us in this zone are seeing a pretty good increase in 2.5 year old deer. That said, the number of 3.5 plus deer has stayed relatively the same. In the past 10 years, 80% of the bucks on camera have all forks and basket rack 1.5 year old deer. So basically, 10 bucks on camera, about 2-3 would be older than 1.5. This year, it seems like 4 out of 10 are 1.5, 4 out of 10 are 2.5, and then there might be 2 or 3 nice 3.5+ year old deer.

If you really feel the need to hash this over again, start a new thread. I'm sure it won't be long before it starts again anyway. Someone might as well do it.

[hunter322]

Neither! Heck up until last year i havent shot a buck in 4 years. Then last year i shota nice 140" buck. But if i hadnt and had a chance to shoot a nice little 8 i would have. What if i was a meat hunter and all i saw were small bucks? Its not about the ego. Its about the hunt. My point is let the hunter decide.

[mntatonka]

Which brings up the issue what statistics/measurements do you use to decide to be as objective as possible? QDMA stats are pointing towards a statewide reduction in young bucks in the harvest.

Assuming you're talking about the QDMA stats I think you are, they're completely false. There's no data on age harvest done by the DNR (the only entity that actually does accurate statistical harvest analysis). They simply don't check for age in their harvest data, because that would require having a DNR rep at every single registration station.

The numbers on how many 1.5 year old bucks were harvested (or not) in Minnesota simply doesn't exist.

APR's are NOT designed to be a "big buck regulation", although that's what they're pushed as. They're designed to be a population control tool, by forcing hunters to harvest more does. Unfortunately, they don't work the way they are intended, and actually decrease the doe harvest in many cases.

Back on topic, I'm seeing the same size deer as last year, if not slightly smaller in body. In our area, it's virtually impossible to harvest enough deer to actually have an effect on the population, let alone the size of the deer (especially antler size) over the years

[Musky Buck]

I find it a bit tough to believe that there are many who hunt deer in MN and all you are seeing are small bucks, I would tend to think most see a few antlerless each season. I like letting the hunter decide, no problem at all, but it's the abuse of tagging power that is hurting some areas in the state, shoot 2-3 small bucks, find tags, keep blazin. Big difference between meat hunters or filling your own tag with the deer of your choice, no problem at all, but our tagging system has been abused for a long time now if some groups are even bothering to tag them if they cut up their own in my area and it leads to less bucks around for the guy who would take a single deer. It's a well the neighbors would blast them then, so what ? Then the next year is just the same thoughts as the year before. Seeing bigger deer no. I wish, but unless we go back to zone 4 I'm skeptical, you could ask the same question next year and I think the trend is the answer would be the same, I'm praying for blizzards during the hunt, then after muzzy great snow melting weather, easy winter, then yes next year there would be bigger deer around.

[muskiemanAD]

trigger, looks like you are seeing the same thing that we are seeing. Will be interesting to see what this looks like in a few years!

[Jameson]

...APR's are NOT designed to be a "big buck regulation", although that's what they're pushed as. They're designed to be a population control tool, by forcing hunters to harvest more does. Unfortunately, they don't work the way they are intended, and actually decrease the doe harvest in many cases....

Yep.

So are those in zone 3 seeing a better buck to doe ratio with a better buck age structure and a herd within habitat limits? That should be the question.

[DinnerPail]

If you really feel the need to hash this over again, start a new thread. I'm sure it won't be long before it starts again anyway. Someone might as well do it.

Needed to be said, Thanks trigger

[Jameson]

...Obviously with the regs set in place for zone 3, many of us in this zone are seeing a pretty good increase in 2.5 year old deer....

If you really feel the need to hash this over again, start a new thread. I'm sure it won't be long before it starts again anyway. Someone might as well do it.

Is it really that obvious? The DNR was certain that the antlerless harvest would go up last year. It didn't. It could be that the increased number of 2.5 year old bucks is do to with something other than APR's.

[PostFrontal]

We hunt 343, and wish I could put all the trail cam pics we have of bucks on here. Was in the stand Sunday morning and didn't see much corn being picked. Are you guys seeing any progress with the corn harvest yet this week?