Wirsbo (Uponor) plumbing line reliability

[Archerysniper]

Sorry for taking it off topic Fossman.

[dougger222]

I had a Wirsbo line break. The reason was because the winterization process didn't pull the water out of the future sink in the basement garage. The Wirsbo broke and leaked right at the copper line leading to the sink plumbing.

For 4 bathrooms and in floor heat in the full basement and both upstairs and downstairs garages figured only one breakage was very minumal. Had the tool from a previous job site to fix myself. The entire house is ran with Wirsbo

[PurpleFloyd]

How dosen't test their piping system before it is sheetrocked or covered this is just asking for failure. Work in Saint Paul or their water district and you will also have to have a water pipe inspection and the brand of pex you are installing better be approved by the state and you better be a certified installer or you are ripping it out.

Some years back I was working in a house in Lake crystal and the house was carpeted, the vinyl was laid, I had all of the cabinets in, the countertops were on etc and the plumber showed up to do the final hookups.This was a split level house and at some point he made a comment that he didn't pressure test the supply lines but said jokingly "I haven't had a leak in 15 years " .

Well, he turned on the main valve and a few hours later he started to throw a few F bombs around so we went to see what the problem was and it turns out he had a bad solder in one of the joints under the landing of the stairs that was also the ceiling of a bedroom closet. So he had to tear out the drywall, make the repair and then the rock had to be replaced and textured. That one made us chuckle pretty good.

[Archerysniper]

Well I allways say if you don't have leaks then you must not be working it happens too the best and I will not let the plumbing be covered with out a test.

I just got done finishing a job that other plumbers had done 120 hours later and I got the final after pulling the fixtures and putting a 5# air test on to find the leaks they left behind. Some are just hacks and it best if you have refrences for the the contractors.

[Surface Tension]

The brass fittings in question did/will pass a test after rough in. The problem lies in these fittings breaking after being in service. A bad solider joint can happen and the reason for testing it after rough in.

[augernaut]

Wirsbo ProPex is the gold standard in Pex tubing, the only other brand that is close is Rehau. Wirsbo and the whole Pex tubing thing orginated in Europe and has been in use for over 20 years. My new house is plumbed entirely in Wirsbo (I rejected bids from plumbers that would not use Wirsbo), and I love the stuff. I'm not a plumber, but an engineer - so I do (way too much!) research on things. If the Wirsbo leaked, it was 99.9 percent likely poor installation. Also - on the freezing/thawing front, pex is actually far less likely than copper to break/leak, due to it having some elasticity to withstand the pressure of water freezing and expanding. Seriously, I'd pick pex, and particularly Wirsbo or Rehau, over copper any day of the week.

[Redlantern]

It all looks good on paper (except when you read the fine print). Seriously though, check out Uponors installation guidelines. You'll see all the little caveats and requirements for installation that you don't have with copper tubing.

[Steve Foss]

It all looks good on paper (except when you read the fine print). Seriously though, check out Uponors installation guidelines. You'll see all the little caveats and requirements for installation that you don't have with copper tubing.

I've sweated in a few miles of copper over the years, and have only made a few repairs or short runs with Wirsbo. But there are lots of little tricks of the trade in order to make sure copper is installed/sweated in correctly, and they are not written down in the directions when you buy the product. Could it be that Wirsbo (Uponor) isn't really any more complicated, but simply puts them all down on paper for us? I mean, if a plumber was to write a list of installation instructions/tips for copper installation, wouldn't that get pretty long and specific, too?

[CAMAN]

I totally agree Steve, I'd bet most failures are due to insufficient education of the product and people 'learning' in the field/on the job. Every plumbing school in the world taught people to sweat copper, how many taught about PEX/ProPress until recently?

[Redlantern]

Steve, I'm not talking about little tricks of the trade, I'm talking about specific warnings and requirements for installing Uponor (or any other crosslink polyethylene). Go to the HSOforum and read the installation guidelines.

[311Hemi]

Is there any place in the cities a DIY can buy the Wirsbo product or rent the tool?

Any thoughts on any of the crimp style PEX systems (vs the Wirsbo expansion) like the ones in the big box stores?

I am remodeling the basement and will have to move a majority of the plumbing around. Copper is still an option, but I would like to use pex due to the amount of changes that need to be made.

[WallEYES]

As a plumbing contractor what ever pex product I use (I use viega) you need to get certified for installation of that particular pex product by the manufacturer....you actually get a competency card for that product. Personally I rather install copper above all else, but the last few years it got to be WAY to expensive to compete in the trades. The reason there is installation instructions there are different methods of making connections with various materials, but remember you can never intermix fittings with a different manufacturers tubing. Getting back to Steve Fosses question if it were my cabin I would install copper...even thou expensive it might be well worth it...maybe go with a thicker walled type copper type L instead of Type M and maybe drain points in non concealed areas to drain back/blow out system when cabin is not used....just a thought.