Food Plot Question

[tearin' lips]

Hey folks, I have a question about what to plant in my food plots for next year. Here's my situation.

We have a little over 300 acres of private land along the Rainy River, 86 acres are agricultural land. We have 50 acres in 2-year old alfalfa, and 36 will be in oats next fall. On the wooded portion of the land we have 3 or 4 locations, about 1/2-3/4 acre each, that are open and are potential locations for food plots. We are looking to plant at least two of these next summer.

My goal is to create late season forage options for the deer, mainly for bucks after the rut to regain body mass. I have done some research and I have determine that I am leaning towards planting brassica, ladino clovers, and in one location soybeans.

What blends have you guys found effective in your food plots? I am open for suggestions on what else to plant. Ideally I would like a perennial blend that we would only have to plant every 3-4 years.

Also is anyone aware of any "no-disk" seed mixes, or mixes that require minimal prep-work? We have another 120 acres near by and there is an area where I might not be able to take the measures needed for a thorough "working" of the area.

Thanks!

[Sportland_Bait]

If you can get a four wheeler in the area it would help a lot. Sounds like you are good to go with the oats and alfalfa. Beans are great but are a little more work. For late season some good choices are brassicas/rape or winter rye. Many of the no till mixes are a blend of oats, clovers, wheat, etc. They will work to a degree. Competition from weeds is always a limiting factor. We had great luck with a variety of oats blends. This year i am going to put in some beans and more rape/brassicas.

Jason Erlandson

[Jameson]

You already have alfalfa. If the deer are going to dig through the snow, alfalfa is about as good as anything.

When it snows those lazy deer don't seem to like to dig through the snow if they don't have to. That is why I would suggest RR corn and RR soybeans for your plots. If you are only planting 2 of your plots I would do both in corn this year. The following year do both in early germinating soybeans, than as the leafs are turning yellow on the beans broadcast clover and rye grain. Come the following spring clip the rye grain a couple of time. Let the clover grow for a couple of years, than start over with the corn. Maybe you will want to just alternate corn/soybeans?

If you are dead set on brassicas, plant the soybeans in the spring, and when the leafs are yellowing broadcast in your brassicas.

Their is a reasoning to this chaos. A lot of it has to do with available nitrogen in the soil, and getting away with as little fertilizer and herbicides as possible. Most will say the first thing you should is get a soil test.

Personally I do: Corn in the spring of year one, in the fall I look for open spots and broadcast brassicas. My deer don't eat the brassicas much, but I've read too many good things about them not to try. Soybeans in the spring of year two. As the leafs yellow I broadcast in alfalfa, clover, and rye grain. Year three and until grasses start to take over I just mow it. Than start over with corn. It helps to have several plots so that you have a variety each year. If you are working with a larger plot, divide it into sections.

For "no-disk" your options are small seeds- clover, alfalfa, brassica, and also rye grain. For all the plots, no-disked especially I suggest packing in the seed some way. For my small plots I just run back and forth over them with my ATV. A cultipacker is another good tool.

I strongly suggest only plant RR (round-up ready) crops in the spring. Otherwise plant in late summer. Weed control will be much easier.

The QDMA HSOforum is awesome for this kind of information.

[fishermatt]

If you have pretty good deer density, the deer will wipe out your soybeans unless you plant 3-4 acres, or have some alfalfa or other greens nearby.

If you can get a good stand of soybeans, you will have deer late season.

I planted 2 - 1/2 acre plots of beans this year at our hunting land, and none of them ever got a pod on them because the deer ate off every single leaf. At home I planted about 1.5 acres, but have less deer around during summer, and I got a good stand there. Right now there's 8-12 deer in my plots most every night. You can see the beans disappearing, starting from the edges. Like was said above, Roundup crops (corn and beans) are good to plant in the beginning, beause it allows you to get the weeds (grass mainly) under control.

[jeffreyd]

The one thing that you dont want to do is seed alfalfa into alfalfa. When you do this you run the risk of the stand crop putting off a toxic chemical that will kill the new stand and damage the old. The term is called allelopathy. If you want to put in legume you could plant oats into the alfalfa as they will handle the chemical. if you have other fields of corn or beans near you, you should concern yourself with pollination from the bt crop into those fields. The last thing you need is someone coming down on you for cross pollenating into their fields. the issue with planting beans into your corn is the shade issue and the fact that the corn requires far more N than the beans do. So either you will be adding too much or not enough and each will suffer. You could double crop the beans so you have a denser crop, the yield will go down a bit but you are not after that much as you are the stand and overall health of the beans. good luck.

[Jameson]

I'll add...what works in my area may not work in your area. If you can get advice from a successful plotter in your area it likely will be the best advice you can get.

[NWBuck]

For a late season food plot attractant I'd list these as my top 3 based on food plot experience:

1. Roundup ready soybeans.

2. Clover and/or alfalfa.

3. Brassicas.

If you can mix these up over a period of years, it seems like it keeps their interest. If you can have 2 or more of the above in the same area, deer really seem to thrive on the "smorgasboard" approach. Good luck...planning and taking care of food plots is almost as much fun as hunting

[jeffreyd]

I will agree with jameson however the information i provided is factual from most universities in the us. doing your own research will always yield the information that you are looking for.

[tunrevir]

We have planted a few smaller plots with a combination of clover, rye and brassicas and then on the bigger plots put in a few 5-6 rows of corn to break up the opening and give deer the security cover of standing corn late in the fall. It is interesting to note that the deer typically will travel into the corn when on the plot, scent check the area and feed a bit and then work through the corn to see what is on each side of it. I also love the turnip mixes and have had great luck with planting small patches of these into the plots. Once the hard frosts come they knock off the tops and as the fall progresses they will come in and actually root around for the turnips in light snow cover. We have planted the roundup ready soybeans up to 5 acres and the deer eat them up before they ever really make it to beans. We did a small test plot last year that we fenced off and it was eye opening as to how much more lush those plants got versus the ones ther deer were free to browse all summer so that might be an option to fence off portions of the beans to let them become mature but with bear around you might be fighting and uphill battle. Take ph readings and make sure your soil is at the right ph for the crops you plant as they will grow thicker and hardier when the soil is balanced.

Tunrevir~

[B. Amish]

You already have alfalfa. If the deer are going to dig through the snow, alfalfa is about as good as anything.

i agree. you already have 50 acres of the best late season food plot in alfalfa. don't waste your time and money growing weeds.

[BLACKJACK]

Good info so far. You're awfully far north for corn so I'd stick with soybeans if you're going to go with a grain crop. As others have said, rye, clovers, and brassicas are all good fall plots with brassicas lasting the latest into fall/early winter. You may need to check into electric fencing if you want to preserve some of this for late fall. Most years my clover and rye is gone by Nov. 1.

Fertilizer is your friend. It may be expensive but it will give some crops that boost you need to out compete the weeds and deer browse. If you're going to spend the time, spend the money to do it right.

You mentioned no-till. Yes you can go that way but then you need to plan on spraying roundup and killing off the competition/weeds or your plot won't amount to much.

Check out the QDMA site, those guys will have all the info you need.

[sticknstring]

Like someone mentioned, deer will hit one crop (brassicas) hard in one area of the state and completely avoid it in another. Trial & error is the key to the foodplotting game. It's a lot of work but it's very rewarding.

[tearin' lips]

Thanks for the input guys. We have sprayers for the tractors and just bought one for the 4-wheeler. As soon as I can I was planning on spraying round-up. We also have "flame" for the roundup to increase effectiveness and rate of how it works.

I will probably end up trying come brassica and clover mixes, and then another in beans. We do have a fairly high deer density so I will probably try fencing the areas off to ensure they have late season forage.

Thanks again for the input!

[hockeybc69]

Whats flame?

Ammonium Sulfate is a must to mix in with Gly too. It will help the effectiveness of the chemical to kill stuff off even better.

Or is Flame a name brand of Ammonium Sulfate???

[Archerysniper]

You can't beat standing soybeans for late season there is a patch that I drive by on the way home from work that was missed or left behind and the deer have been in there everynight around 4 430 since firearms season closed

[pike doctor]

Being as far north as you are I would try to plant my soybeans around the end of May. You can kill the weeds and stuff earlier to get the seed bed ready. You shouldnt need any fertilizer with the beans. Timely rain will be more important. I would plant a group 1 bean or less. Something like a .5 or .8 would even be better. That will get them to maturity before the first freeze up there. The growing window is quite short. When you are spraying the roundup you will need to get some surfactin (sp) which helps the weeds absorb the roundup. Fifty lbs. of soybeans will plant you nearly an acre. I would try to get them thick enough to eventually canopy the weeds, but not so thick that they smoother each other and abort pods or get mold.

If you want to do corn I would think You could get it in by the 20th of May. You will need to plant something with a RM under 90 days for sure. You are going to need some fertilizer to do corn. You will need Urea (dry N), and some potash and phosphorus. I wouldnt worry about AMS or Zinc. You will need to put down a couple hundred lbs. of fert per acre.

Corn and beans really need sun. If you dont get much sun to the crop you wont be very impressed. Good luck.

[nonteepical]

you'll do more good getting out the chainsaw and getting to work with that than two half acre food plots would do. forest management is year round food and cover. if you do plant beans, plant forage beans.

[Pinusbanksiana]

you'll do more good getting out the chainsaw and getting to work with that than two half acre food plots would do. forest management is year round food and cover. if you do plant beans, plant forage beans.

I second this. The food plot craze is a waste of money. Around the Rainy, the limiting factor is deep snow and cold weather, not food. Actually that is the limiting factor period for deer in MN.

[Jameson]

you'll do more good getting out the chainsaw and getting to work with that than two half acre food plots would do. forest management is year round food and cover. if you do plant beans, plant forage beans.

Yep, the chainsaw and forest management are most important, but the question was about food plots. Also he was looking for post rut foods. Forage beans are developed to produce a lot of tonnage during the summer. They won't have the bean production of ag beans.

[Pinusbanksiana]

Food plots artificially and temporarily inflate the carrying capacity of an area, which then puts more pressure on the surrounding natural vegetation and in turn lowers the carrying capacity to an extent.

[ARROW 1]

My bear guides from Northhome swear by turnips. They get pounded hard after the first frost and well into the winter.

[InTheNorthwoods]

I second this. The food plot craze is a waste of money. Around the Rainy, the limiting factor is deep snow and cold weather, not food. Actually that is the limiting factor period for deer in MN.

Which both contribute to a lack of food, lead to starvation, and in some cases, eventually death.

Food is but one factor in the needs of the whitetail deer. However, in much of the state, for example outside of farm country/the northern portions, food is the biggest hole in the whitetails needs. Food plots can be a great tool to provide high quality forage for deer in the winter months when they need it most (as can selective harvest of timber, hinge cutting, etc. which creates new buds and understory growth - i.e. food).

In the end, its neither the weather nor the snow that kills the deer, its the weather and snows impact on the availability of food that causes deer to perish. Simply put, the lack of quality feed and the ability to take in the necessary calories - and subsequently the added stress of trying to find food and general weakening of the body when under nurished, can lead to death. Food plots and habitat improvement can and is a great "preventative medicine" in localized areas for those impacts on the deer herd.

[InTheNorthwoods]

Food plots artificially and temporarily inflate the carrying capacity of an area, which then puts more pressure on the surrounding natural vegetation and in turn lowers the carrying capacity to an extent.

How so? Do you feel the same about a good acorn year? Apple or fruit tree production? It is no different than if an area has an inordinate amount of rain, a localized burn, logging, selective timber removal, etc. The habitat is going to respond to those events by either being improved, or worsened, and the deer will respond accordingly. Food plots are habitat improvement, which in some cases may lead to increased deer numbers. At the same time, if the habitat begins to worsen, the deer numbers may go down, but that is no different than any other event that has an impact on the habitat. But its not like a food plot creates a flash in the pan that can raise deer numbers in an instance, artifically inflate numbers overnight, and then be gone the next day and deer starve - at least not in a sense that is different than any of the examples I already brought up (acorn production, apple production, etc.). Its not like a food plot is bait pile of corn where every single benefit that existed at one time is gone when the last kernel is consumed. Food plots are a living, growing plant, many of which perennially produce high quality forage.

[Pinusbanksiana]

Do you sell food plot seed or something?

[hockeybc69]

I sell food plot seed.