Deer Idea

[picksbigwagon]

I used to be very anti-QDM and APR, and am now on the fence about it and am keeping an eye on zone 3 since they implemented Antler point restrictions. Hunting pressure and human population density are two factors in a determining the health of a deer herd that rarely get discussed in all of these topics. Northern Saskatchewan's population density has to be really low, compared to parts of minnesota. Is the entire state of WI or IA for that matter the greatest buck producing areas ever? NO, Iowa has party hunting, Wisconsin has party hunting. I have deer hunted the last couple years in Iowa, and PARTY HUNTED......The last couple years these posts pop up and it turns into a negative, name calling, and LOCKED topic.

I have only hunted in SE MN (346 and 349) and have watched that area go from lottery to intensive harvest for the past 5 or 6 years. I have no idea about the populations up north, but I am sure the DNR does and that is why we have the scattered mananagement zones that we currently have.

I am a meat hunter (whatever that means) and I also party hunt.........

[Pinusbanksiana]

Party hunting is here to stay. I hunt with my three sons, we shoot what we want. If one wants to wait for a big buck he says so, until he shoots it or decides he now wants some meat. Mostly we shoot the first legal deer that comes around so our tags are full and then we go to North Dakota and hunt pheasants the remainder of the deer season. Been doing this for years and I have never heard one of them complain that they wish they had a big buck instead of the doe or fork that was shot. Once in a while we get a nice one. We don't watch deer hunting shows about food plots, big bucks or what not. We get together, have some good times and party hunt. If some guy who is mad that we are enjoying ourselves and shooting a fork buck demands that the law is changed it will be disappointing to us and many other family groups that put time afield more important than inches of antler.

[pulleye16]

I know TONS of meat hunters who can go out and spend under $50 per deer and come out way ahead of buying beef. Some people DO rely on venison to get them through the winter. Alot of small towns thats all they eat, is what they shoot, I know 1st hand from family and friends. A box of slugs is all they need!

What they need to do is stop the statewide season and make people appy to an area again.

If you want bigger bucks, the problem starts with shooting little/fawn deer. Instead of antler restrictions, the dnr should DISCOURAGE hunters from shooting fawns and small does. EDUCATE the hunters. small fawns turn to bucks (if male of course) and DON"T put meat in the freezer.

I thought I read that buck fawns make up around 20 percent, thats alot of "bucks" that never made it!

[hockeybc69]

Pinus,

You are completely missing the point of banning party hunting.

Banning party hunting would make it so that you couldnt go shoot 4 deer, and use your sons tags on them.

Its means one for all and all for one hunting would be done. You shoot a deer, you put your tag on it. Simple as that.

Nothing says you cant hunt as a group and enjoy it like you have since you started hunting.

[Pinusbanksiana]

Oh, and as far as the cost of hunting for us, one son has shot a deer 3 years in a row. He shows up the night before season, goes out to his stand and shoots a deer. He has fired 3 shots in the last 4 or 5 years. His cost is license and fuel. Since he is in college, I buy his license. We used to sight in our rifles each year but found that with the quality scopes we have, they don't change.

I did break down and purchase two Summit Viper stands this year for us. But now we don't have to move portables around so much and it makes hunting easier. Those stands are probably the best hunting purchase I have ever made. Now we can scout an area a week before season, gps the tree we want to sit in and just show up opening morning ready to hunt. NO sweating putting up a ladder stand or hanging stand.

[Pinusbanksiana]

Hockey, we like to eat deer. The more we shoot, the more we eat. We have never purchased extra tags because 4 deer is plenty so it is not like we are whacking and stacking. But if we can shoot 4 we will.

[hockeybc69]

Again, you are missing the point. You can shoot 4 deer if party hunting is banned.

You just have to tag what you shoot. Thats the only difference.

[Pinusbanksiana]

I know that, but we party hunt our 4 deer. Sometimes one son gets all the shooting.

[reinhard1]

i dont see a problem here. four single hunters get four deer or four hunters in a group get a deer. in our group of 4 we have never gotten 4 deer. so our own tag goes on our own deer. there were years were we had no deer. good luck.

[Pinusbanksiana]

I didn't say we always get our 4 either. This year we shot 2 on the final day of season. I didn't pull the trigger once. I would have if I had a shot, but the only deer in my scope this year were does. We had no doe tag. I can muzzle load hunt now if I want to.

[TruthWalleyes]

Sorry for everyone that needs to fill a freezer, but I find it hard to believe there are that many people out there that truly NEED to fill a freezer. And for anyone that might NEED to fill a freezer, I would like to suggest they take a look at what it costs to deer hunt when its all said and done. Its not like its free meat.

I'd agree that hunting is not cheap. My first deer this year cost me over $250 in gas, and another $42 for a buck and bonus tag. (My first deer was antlerless). Granted, this doesn't even come close to the total amount spent...Food, Shells to sight in, any hunting supplies, etc...

I hunt to fill the freezer....I won't consider it a "need", but after that much money is spent...it becomes a need pretty quick! Like, I need something to show for all the money i've spent.

I hunt similar to you. I wait for trophy bucks becasue i can fill a tag with a doe, and come back to tropny deer. I am for the education of selective harvest, but not for changing the rules to cater to those who feel that they "NEED" the inches on their antlers.

[candiru]

I really wish the pro-QDM crowd would go for education and not legislation. Lead by example and practice it on your own. Give it some time and people will come around like they have on releasing large walleyes. The attitude seems to be; "I want my bick buck, and I want it now". If people move to it voluntarily, they will be happy about it. When something is shoved down their throat, it is not as well recieved. The rulebook does not need to be any thicker. I personally have some land and practice when I have the doe tags. Alot of years lately I have not even had a doe permit. There is not a large deer population in all areas of the state. There is also a part of me that wants to shoot the small buck, just because people are wanting to ram QDM down my throat. It won't happen overnight but peoples attitudes will change. I tried for over 10 years just to get my first deer in MN. Things could be alot worse. There is a whole lot more to hunting than antlers.

[Musky Buck]

Believe it or not I have no comment except our area most of us saw few if any yearling bucks, does that mean fewer survived the winter or more went down as buck fawns in our vast area or were they that nocturnal as well, either way we're a bit nervous for next year already, seemed like there were very few 2.5 year old bucks around as well, who knows, this also matched our trail cam footage this year as well.

[luckey]

After readingt this debate and numerous ones like it, it's become clear that Minnesota has a very diverse set of deer hunters employing many methods of hunting. Many feel their way is the best way and want all hunters to do as they do. Some don't care what others do just as long as they can continue to hunt as the have in the past. There is also a big difference between hunting private verses public land. It is impossible to make everyone happy when hunters range from a solo hunter going after a single trophy (don't make me define trophy), to a large group driving deer and shooting everything possible. Now, throw in bow and muzzle loader hunters with the unpredictable winters and you can see the difficult task it is to set the regulations. With that said, I might as well throw in my opinion. A group of us hunt on private land and really enjoy the flexibility alowed by party hunting. As long as one person hunting has a valid tag, anyone that wants to can continue to hunt. For us, this is the big one. I just can't see someone shooting a deer the first morning and then having to sit and twittle thumbs after that.

[HunterLee]

I am not saying that everybody needs to shoot the doe, but if the person either had a buck or doe tag, not the whatever you want tag that would help save some of the small ones.

With having harvest goals of bucks and does, gives people to shoot whatever buck they want, but that in turn doesn't give everyone a buck tag, so some won't get shot. Thus fewer taken and more reaching maturity or at least another year.

[HunterLee]

With my plan ideally in a year or two everyone will be at a point where there will be x amount of doe tags, and y amount of buck tags. That way you will either have a doe or buck tag in your pocket so if you have a buck tag shoot it, but if not thats too bad.

And if your an area with extra doe tags you could buy an extra.

There will be no managed, lottery or intensive areas, each area will be managed and harvest goals will be set. So if the DNR wants 600 bucks shot and 1500 does, thats the number of tags sold. With any extra tags being sold of first come first serve basis.

[matchset]

i couldn't agree more HunterLee

i've hunted in 6 Mn counties this year.... and i'll tell you what.... the further south i go the MORE deer i see!

maybe thats cuz we hunt over fields!

but the further north i go...even canada.... the bigger deer i see! and i'm not talking about body size.

i like the X&Y equation.... in the unit i hunt in wisconsin.... there is unlimited buck tags, but a limit of 4,984 doe tags! this give guys the opportunity to fill their freezer with a doe if they'd like. or the guy(and three buddies) that wants to manage his property wisely the ability to shoot 13 does and 1 buck in a given season.

[bigbucks]

If they wanted 600 bucks shot & 1500 does they'd have to issue a lot more than that many tags. Most hunters can't just go out & shoot whatever deer they want. Most don't have the time, or the land, or in a lot of cases the skill to just do that. It's not like going to the grocery store & picking out a 10 pound turkey instead of a 20 pounder or vice versa. Many hunters, even those that spend quite a bit of time hunting will only get one or even no chances to shoot a deer during a deer season. Many that get only one chance will miss

A lot of us on this site get many, many chances to kill deer each year & so we can be more selective, good for us. Likely most of us make the majority of the shots we take, because deer hunting is a passion for us & we spend the time to hone our skills. There are a ton of hunters, that aren't like that. That doesn't make them "slob" hunters it just makes them more casual hunters. They just want a chance to shoot at a deer most seasons. Sorry, but I just don't get what's so wrong with our deer hunting. I've hunted in WI, it's a fun place to hunt the hunting's good. I wouldn't say they have it way better than we do, I'd say it's pretty similar. People talk about all the deer in SD, look at the populations of our two states. Lot less people to shoot the deer makes their DNR look pretty good.

On a side note: Why do we get this recurring theme about the tags falling off deer? Does the DNR need to put a knot tying how to on the tags or explain how a zip tie works or what? I've personally tagged or been around when others have tagged probably a 100 deer with the current style of tags. I've never seen one come off. Are people tying them on with thread or what? Yes I'm being a little sarcastic, but I just don't get that one.

[TruthWalleyes]

Realistically each zone is a differnent environment, with a different deer population. To manage each on an individual basis would be Ideal. So, the best managment practice would be to allow only X bucks, and Y does to be harvested in that peticular zone per that specific zone's environment and deer population.

Right??

So, how does one change the legislation to match the individual zone harvests as stated above?

I think the best way is to only offer that qty of tags specified for that zone and deer population....SO, there's not enough tags for everyone....This is a big problem, how do you solve the First Come, First Serve to fill those tags....I'm Stumped On This One for the Moment!

[HunterLee]

Truth-

Thats the point of issueing only a certain amount of tags. When they are gone they are gone. Not everyone may get a tag in the area they want, unless of course there are more tags available than hunters.

So with that being said one unit may have 4000 tags availble, and now 6000 people want them, well that means 2000 won't get. So they will apply for a second and third choice and if they are unsuccessful then they would have to buy a leftover tag in a unit that has tags left or not hunt.

Bigbucks- That was just an example, we all know not everyone that hits the woods will score a deer, with that in mind the dnr would figure an certain percent of succuss. So figure 60% will kill a deer so they would then issue that many extra tags and hope they kill the amount of deer they desire.

So if they want 1000 dead deer give 2000 tags

[Vikings_59]

I agree with the original post. But unfortunately people still have the freedom to shoot any buck that comes across them and they can buy a license over the counter. Hopefully the DNR will make some changes to the current regulations. It seems like every state around us, and only a handful of hunters around MN have it figured out and will let the smaller/younger bucks walk by and hopefully survive another year.

I have stated this info in a previous post, but in 2009 an estimated 85% of bucks harvested were 1 1/2 years old. Until we let those younger deer grow, we will never see what type of genetics will come out of deer in the later years.

Pinusbanksiana- By you killing any legal deer your group see's each season it will possibly lead to more antler restrictions. Do you keep 12-13'' walleyes too?

[Pinusbanksiana]

Gatoreye, I don't know how to respond to that. How can what me and my sons do legally each year change the way the state manages a deer herd? Thats absurd. Everyone up here hunts this way, at least everyone I know. There may be a few guys who come up and look for a trophy each year, but if they do, they go home with an empty truck 4 out of 5 years. Thats why they are called trophys, if everyone shot them every year, they would just be another dead deer.

[Getanet]

But unFortunately people still have the freedom to shoot any buck that comes across them and they can buy a license over the counter.

There you go, all fixed...

[candiru]

Your x and y idea will only work with a ban on party hunting. That means I get a doe tag and a 200" buck shows up I can't shoot it. It would also mean in areas with lower deer numbers that I as a land owner (that I pay taxes on and take care of) that I would not be able to hunt my own land in some years. Forget going to another zone, there is too much pressure in MN for that too work. Public land hunters might only have a 20% succes rate. Then you want to tell them they may not hunt every year, or have a buck or doe only tag? That kind of system works in the Dakotas,(success rates are 75%, land is more accesable, and the terrain is open) but MN is a whole different ballgame. Not good for the future of hunting in general.

[HunterLee]

I think with some type of limit on tags in an area it should help loosen the pressure. Now instead of everybody who wants to hunt a zone can't that would open up more land both public and private. So now only 4000 of the 6000 people can hunt instead of everybody.