A huge disappointment!!

[Acemac]

how is a party of 20 hunters taking 20 deer a bad thing?

they buy the tag just like you when it is full its done.......?

[96trigger]

Wow, you completely lost me with that rant. But I have been in these discussions before, I am completely convinced that no amount of discussion will ever convert polar opposites from one side to the other or vice versa. Its really why I don't contribute to them much anymore. I do continue to follow them though.

Once again, psepuncher, you say that ALL qdmers complain about not seeing mature bucks. I am an advocate of QDM, I have NEVER said that we don't have big, mature bucks, because we do. I have only ever advocated passing on forks and baskets, to give them another year to grow, mature, and try and figure things out. They are by far, the easiest deer to kill in the woods during the rut. I think many of the QDMers share that view point. I have also only advocated any type of mandated QDM in areas where there is a healthy deer population, i.e.. managed or intensive harvest.

[mabr]

PSE, good post and me being a QDM'r I have to agree with you. I'm guilty of it myself giving the thumbs up to take SAID deer.

For me I've done it to not sound arrogant to other hunters. Whats a shooter to me Isn't to others. In here (HSO) we have a WIDE range of experience between all of us and for me to tell someone who has never shot a 2.5-3.5 yo 130 class deer not to shoot it is absurd. Do I know it has the potential to reach 150 next year, Yeah you bet I do. And hopefully they will next year after they reflect on that deer mounted on their wall. BUT, and I mean a BIG BUT, if your neighbors aren't practicing the same management he's not going to survive either way.

Its funny to me. My other thread on mounting or not is so related to this its not funny. I find myself changing my beliefs on QDM with age. I have no problem passing that 130. But its taken me almost 50 years to get there. Not because of regulation, but experience. I am also starting to see education being a huge factor. My middle son who has only taken 1 deer passed on 3 bucks opening morning at less than 40 yards. He had the go ahead on any deer as hes still a rookie to me. But he CHOSE to pass on his own free will.

[Musky Buck]

All I know is the overall age of the deer that are left to hunt in my area for this muzzy season is very young once again compared to the 80's and 90's and that areas that used to hold a wintering herd no longer have 1. I started being selective on bucks when I turned 23, realize then there was a 2 day deer season in those days, by then I had taken 6 immature bucks and knew as much as I liked to eat venison, I always hoped for a bigger buck, grandpa in the dairy barn and a non-hunter because of his WW2 experiences, simply said in his Finish accent " ya can't have a good chance at a bigger buck if you guys continue to shoot those baby bucks " since then I've let them go last day of season or not and not filling your tag one year or two or more makes you appreciate the 1's you do get all the more, but there's many of us the deer are on our minds year round and to us we just don't want to plaster the first buck we see each year, we don't ramp up ourselves in hope we can bag a Y buck next fall, we've already done that a time or two already, we would take an antlerless b4 a small buck. The next challenge is spending countless hours at times in areas that might not have a mature buck for miles, but you don't know unless you go. There was a thread about the stages deer hunters go through we're all in one stage or another, good luck hunting guys!

[Musky Buck]

Here's an angle I forgot all about, I think our area 15 years ago had almost better sorta like QDM or should I say go grow, when the state came in and shut down our 3 local big buck contests, people back then used to let more small bucks walk hoping for that money winner, call it what you want but guys were or seemed quite a bit more selective and people passing on small bucks opening weekend were still helping educate those young ones somewhat making it easier for them to become a 2.5 year old and no one was barely muzzy hunting in those days, and you had either a 2 or 4 day season until multi zone came into play which is still 3 days less than now, I bet the 10,000 die hard original muzzy guys were spittin a little when the anyone can muzzy hunt came into play, I know my dad still is.

[HNTNBUX]

I find it very confusing that people that call themselves meat hunters or non QDMers are so upset with those of us that don't want to shoot every deer that walks by. As long as the laws are what they are you can shoot your baby deer and I will not. You can shoot one deer per year if that makes you happy and I will shoot more. You can hunt one weekend per year and I will hunt all year. As long as you can find satisfaction in what you want to do that should be enough. I find satisfaction in the way I hunt and the deer I shoot. I do not own land, I do not plant food plots or any of the other QDM practices that help in growing large deer. I simply hunt hard, hunt often and hope to shoot something bigger than a year and a half old buck. That is what makes me happy and I will continue to do that until such time as I want to change my hunting. My daughter and anyone else I hunt with can choose to shoot what they want, I don't care. Shoot what and how many you want as long as it is legal and quit trying to tell me that I am immoral for wanting to shoot more or bigger deer when it is legal. Enjoy your hunt for what it is and be happy.

[leech~~]

Jeeez J let everyone know how you really feel!

[Getanet]

I can't recall any discussion where the "meat hunters" call QDM guys immoral for what they choose to shoot. What we rally against are those that want new rules/regulations/laws put into place that would enforce QDM practices such as antler point restrictions on the hunting public.

People can shoot the first deer that walks by their stand, they can choose to only shoot a monster buck, or they can just sit in a stand with a camera and take pictures of deer for all I care. As long as people don't try to impose their view of what constitutes an acceptable animal through law, most meat hunters could care less how you hunt.

[Musky Buck]

LOL bux, agree and no doubt so many think we all want this monster which we likely do in a way but realistically I'd like to see a few mature bucks running around even in velvet, won't happen in 2 of my 4 areas I hunt and I'm talking a 2.5 year old or older, the facts are in the field each summer in velvet, plenty of 1.5 year olds meaning 5-6 of them and lately 1 2.5year old, but is that plenty when there's 15 deer stands in the area trying to get those 7 bucks, few if any older specimens, not so many years back 10-15 years ago we'd have roughly 3 big ones, 3 mediums and 5-6 smalls, before the last wave of deer stands flooded the area the area has not recovered to those buck numbers and can't and many of the guys that downed 1 small buck by rifle were putting in there heaters for muzzleloader the other day, now remaining yearling bucks and buck fawns will get shot if the chance presents itself, wounded or whatever and these are deer that should in my view have survived the hunting season except for what used to be the true muzzy season. They may only get 1 or 2 or 3 but that's 3 less with racks next summer and over the course of a few years it adds up realize reading this some of these guys already have taken a buck or 2, it's never enough for some guys and makes me wonder how they saved their own tag.

[jeffreyd]

I dont think that QDM is any different than throwing that 50 inch muskie back. I have seen posts on the fishing side that people complain about having to throw back slot size fish when they think they should be able to keep them. So maybe some fisherman feel that QDM in the water is different than on land, to me i dont see the difference. All wildlife need to be maintained regardless of size, sex, age, mass, it will depend on the habitat. If there is no food, there will not be any wildlife, if population takes over then you have issues with disease and starving. I think that hunters need to be held to a tighter method of getting that tag, and before you jump on me about the fish vs the hunter, it is again about population. Clearly we know that it is easier to grow fish than a 7 yr old buck.

[HNTNBUX]

Is this really an issue of QDM or an issue of people simply shooting because they can? 13 deer yields a lot of meat. Look into to Farmers and Hunters feeding the hungry. I donated an elk one year because my buddy shot his cow and it was just too much between the two of us.

Eventually one can expect that when word gets out about such parties and events, game and fish and the rule makers may start stopping all such events. I am not a trophy hunter, only for the meat. I do not agree with guys each year going for a buck to put in a room where they only gather dust. If a person is able to watch an animal walk around you, not knowing you are there, is that more of a reward knowing you outdid mother nature and the deers ability to smell you than shooting just to do so?

Peoples morals are being lost with the governments willingness to control animal thru hunting. I agree it is a great method but it does not make sense to allow people to shoot this many animals without some consumptive regulation.

Maybe MN needs to go to an all lottery type system where you may or may not draw a tag depending on how the ball bounces?

Quote:

All I am trying to say is you do what you want to do and I will do what I want to do as long as it is legal. I would like to see some changes to the hunting regulations that is for sure. This is a big diverse state that needs to have different rules for different zones or areas. Musky Buck is always talking about how few deer are in his area. Trigger is always talking about how many deer are in his area. Matchset is telling and showing us the big deer in his area. Depending on what part of the state and what property you have to hunt your opinion of what deer hunting is like or should be like in MN is different. I have my opinions on what I would like to shoot and what I would like to see happen to the deer hunting based on my experience only. Many true QDM guys would laugh at the deer I shoot and many others would say they are nice deer. Thanks for your opinion but in the end I will make the decision when and if to take a deer. I will not say someone is immoral because they choose to do something that is different than how I want to do it, it is just that different. I can get off the soap box now for a few minutes.

[HNTNBUX]

I guess I don't know how to quote properly. Who knew.

[Musky Buck]

I wouldn't say there's few deer in my area, just that 90% seem to be 1.5 years or younger and that's what the meat poles tend to show compared to the 80's, 90's and early thousands. It wasn't all that many years back when if you didn't shoot a buck that dressed 230+ you were not taking home the gold,silver or bronze in our areas big buck contests and maybe some were more patient if you bought a ticket for the contest. Wonder today what the top 3 places would be like, thanks MN for shutting those down as well as the big doe contest, it used to bring so many of us together to share stories etc. talk hunting, the contest really took a back seat to the comradery, I liked this 1 guy that said I'm going to win it when he drove in, dressed 202 and he was in like 29th place lol and this was in the old 2 day season or 4. He was like 272 pound dressed is leading? Tid bit the next year it was a 268 by the same hunter. Following year the state said no more unless we get a big % or something to that effect.

[trophychaser]

how is a party of 20 hunters taking 20 deer a bad thing?

they buy the tag just like you when it is full its done.......?

I have no problem with a hunting party taking 20 deer if they all need or want the meat. I do have a problem with 20 hunters taking 20 deer with only 5 of the hunters wanting a deer. To me there is no difference between that and 20 Ice fishermen catching and keeping thier limit of walleys to only clean a couple and feed the rest to the cats

[trophychaser]

This topic turned from talking about unethical hunters shooting more deer than they need to a QDMA topic. So let me ask you this.

What is QDMA? I think the perception of QDMA to lots of people is passing on every buck under 130". In my opinion that's not what QDMA is. We practice QDMA in our hunting party. To us Quality Deer Management is more about planting food plots. It's more about improving cover on our property for the deer herd. It's more about lowering the coyote population. We had a very nice doe this year with triplets. They were still pretty small for fall. We decided not to fill our doe tag with that particle deer because we want the young to have the best chance of staying healthy through the winter. Shed Hunting, mineral sites, and putting out trail cameras. We were brought up with the brown its down way of hunting. Now were are bringing our children up with a different philosophy. If 4 deer fits our needs we will only shoot 4 deer even if we have 13 tags.

I think all these practices in the certain situations might lead to letting the 130" buck walk, but its very rare and I'll be the first to say our hunting party is no way letting a 130" buck walk!

In my opinion there are probably lots of "Non-QDMA" hunters that are practicing qdma.

So what does QDMA mean to you?

[hockeybc69]

People think QDM is all about big bucks. Thats incorrect. Its about all things related to deer.

QDM is a solid practice. A by-product of QDM is larger bucks. But by no means the primary objective.

TDM is about big bucks. Trophy Deer Management. Thats it.

[Todd Caswell]

I enjoy reading these QDM threads and rants on bordering land owners NOT following the QDM plan. I hear it at work from two different groups every year " We spend all this money on food plots, minerals Yada yada yada and then the neibor has the balls to shoot a spike that WE raised" I have voiced my opinion so they don't ask any more. These same guys complain that they fill ALL there tags and don't use the meat, in reality they probably don't know if they use all the meat or not, most likely speculation based on assumtions and anger. MY responce is " Buy out your neibore , put up a fence what ever it takes to grow big bucks but please don't tell them what they can and can not shoot.

I would call my self a MEAT hunter , this year we were in a lottery area, public land ( no doe permits) so you guessed it first legal buck that comes by I'm not going to pass it up, according to alot of people on here i should feel bad about it, let em grow. Now if the state was a either sex state Yah Id'e pass on a small buck to shoot a doe, and I have in the past.

Iv'e shot two nice bucks 8 and a tall 10 that weighed 239 dressed and have never put a tape on either one, not important to me, would I rather shoot a 10 over a fork sure who wouldn't but it's not my main objective..

[HNTNBUX]

Tropheychaser what you said about QDMA sounds about right to me. I also understand your frustration with your neighbors however as long as they or others benefit from your labor things will not change. They may get to shoot alot of deer or some big deer as a result of your work and practices and use that fact against you. See we have plenty of big bucks around here why can't I shoot any deer I want. Most people oppose change for the sake of opposing change.

As long as those that make the rules allow for the liberal harvest of bucks I am going to support their decesion to do so. I might not agree with it but I wont condemn them for shooting a small buck, unless I know them pretty well. I have even told people that they had a really nice six pointer or fork horn and made them smile of course they were kids and I meant it. I will not however tell a forty year old man "nice forkhorn" with a straight face. Good luck in your management I hope it works out for you.

[Todd Caswell]

I will not however tell a forty year old man "nice forkhorn"

Alright now you hit a nerve I just turned 40 and have shot ALOT of nice forkhorns Why won't you shake my hand on harvesting a legal deer that I plan on enjoying for the next few monthes?? This is my problem with QDM and the people that endorse it.

[HNTNBUX]

I would not be rude about it. I would hope I could say "nice shot" or "way to stick it out" but I will not tell you that you shot a nice one. Don't make me lie.

[Coach1310]

The Pro-QDM vs. Non-QDM debate will never end, but I guess that is part of the fun. I understand that many QDM folks really care about the health of the deer herd, but it is REALLY a stretch to say that it is about QDM and all the factors that go with it, not just about big racked bucks..... really???? So, if both male and female deer did not have antlers QDM guys would be concerned about how OLD this deer or that deer is?? In my opinion... It's about the antlers first and foremost, about the challenge of killing a mature animal #2 and about the overall health of the deer herd 3rd if you ask me and thats okay... I just wish folks would admit it.... no one will think less of you ....

I'm for whatever you choose to do as a hunter as long as you are ethical and follow the regulations. If I was fortunate enough to own a piece of land, I think I would attempt to let the small bucks walk in hopes are creating more opportunities at a trophy deer, but I'm not naive enough to think the only reason I am doing it is for the benefit of the entire deer herd, it is to increase my chances at taking a trophy buck... let the debates continue!!

[Todd Caswell]

The Pro-QDM vs. Non-QDM debate will never end, but I guess that is part of the fun. I understand that many QDM folks really care about the health of the deer herd, but it is REALLY a stretch to say that it is about QDM and all the factors that go with it, not just about big racked bucks..... really???? So, if both male and female deer did not have antlers QDM guys would be concerned about how OLD this deer or that deer is?? In my opinion... It's about the antlers first and foremost, about the challenge of killing a mature animal #2 and about the overall health of the deer herd 3rd if you ask me and thats okay... I just wish folks would admit it.... no one will think less of you ....

I'm for whatever you choose to do as a hunter as long as you are ethical and follow the regulations. If I was fortunate enough to own a piece of land, I think I would attempt to let the small bucks walk in hopes are creating more opportunities at a trophy deer, but I'm not naive enough to think the only reason I am doing it is for the benefit of the entire deer herd, it is to increase my chances at taking a trophy buck... let the debates continue!!

Very good post I like

[Todd Caswell]

I would not be rude about it. I would hope I could say "nice shot" or "way to stick it out" but I will not tell you that you shot a nice one. Don't make me lie.

What if I belly crawled 300 yards, the impossible stalk with the wind at my back and still outsmarted that 4 pointer? Shot him at 5 yards when he stood up from his bed with my long bow, is he then a trophy? Or is a real trophy a 160 class buck that was shot at 100 yards over a food plot with a 06, a shot that anyone could make, put the crosshairs on the shoulder and pull the trigger. Been there done that and it all Tastes the same to me.

I have never shot a deer with a ML or from a ground blind so any DOE this weekend will be a trophy for me.........

[leech~~]

Trophies are just that. At the end of a tournament many teams have played but only one gets to walk away with the trophy for all the time and hard work they put in to win it. If everyone got one at the end of the game would it really be a trophy worth the effort then? I understand everyone wants a trophy, but just having more trophies available only makes it easier for those that don't want to put in the time or work as hard to earn it.

[nonteepical]

[quote name='Todd Caswell

What if I belly crawled 300 yards' date=' the impossible stalk with the wind at my back and still outsmarted that 4 pointer? Shot him at 5 yards when he stood up from his bed with my long bow, is he then a trophy? Or is a real trophy a 160 class buck that was shot at 100 yards over a food plot with a 06, a shot that anyone could make, put the crosshairs on the shoulder and pull the trigger. Been there done that and it all Tastes the same to me.[/quote']

well, do your fellow hunters a favor and keep shooting all the 160" 10 pointers you want we'd be happy for you, just don't shoot the forkhorn, let him grow up... if it all tastes the same to you.