Quick survey of my own curiosity on "point restriction"

[BigJakeL]

I am not against shooting small bucks. However, I do not shoot anything smaller that an 8 myself. I believe that if a person buys a tag and pays there good hard earned money and spends the time in the woods they should be able to shoot any deer that they see fit for themselves. Big bucks are great but you can't eat the horns. We all have our own idea of a trophy animal. For me it would be any buck that i call in at any time of the year. For a kid just starting out hunting it might be a little fork or a spike. I believe that there should be no restriction on the size of the antler the animal has in order to be taken. It should be the individuals choice to take the animal or let it walk. I also have a question about this if you are not allowed to shoot anything but a big buck how do you expect the bad genetics of a five year old spike or four year old fork to get out of the area?

[bottom-bouncer]

I am not against shooting small bucks. However, I do not shoot anything smaller that an 8 myself. I believe that if a person buys a tag and pays there good hard earned money and spends the time in the woods they should be able to shoot any deer that they see fit for themselves. Big bucks are great but you can't eat the horns. We all have our own idea of a trophy animal. For me it would be any buck that i call in at any time of the year. For a kid just starting out hunting it might be a little fork or a spike. I believe that there should be no restriction on the size of the antler the animal has in order to be taken. It should be the individuals choice to take the animal or let it walk. I also have a question about this if you are not allowed to shoot anything but a big buck how do you expect the bad genetics of a five year old spike or four year old fork to get out of the area?

show me a picture of a five year old buck that is only a fork or spike and I will tell you how to cull the heard.

[matchset]

culling bucks does not improve antler quality. period.

[matchset]

i'm all for APR! i mean come on gals and guys....how many 3 point skull plates does one need in order to feel accomplished??

if you're a "meat" hunter, shoot one of the 6 does that walks by your stand prior to the 1 1/2 year old buck!

[Rippinlip]

i'm all for APR! i mean come on gals and guys....how many 3 point skull plates does one need in order to feel accomplished??

if you're a "meat" hunter, shoot one of the 6 does that walks by your stand prior to the 1 1/2 year old buck!

What about my wife who is in her second year of archery deer hunting and she this year has not had the chance to shoot a doe yet. She almost had a chance last night at a smaller buck, she thought either a fork or maybe a 6 pointer, she has never shot a deer before and I told her to take the 1st available deer within her range, now if we had APR in our area, I have to tell her absolutely not.

Is this what we are all about??????

Her to put a "3 point on a plaque on the wall could mean the world to her!!!!

[Jameson]

So...question is this... would you, or would you not, support a state wide point-restriction law for all seasons (bow, gun, muzzle) with the hopes of producing a more quality-antlered deer population across the state? Why or why not? How do you feel a point-restriction law might affect the overall populations?

How are gun and muzzy hunters supposed to do that in lottery areas? (not directed at OP, but recent replies.)

If the question is should bow hunters have APR's statewide, than we need a new thread.

[Stratosman]

Rippinlip.. I agree with you and you just detailed the fundamental failure of a state wide mandated restriction. People have to realize that not everyone wants big antlers and couldn't care less about the size of the deer they shoot. Bow hunting especially, it's difficult enought to shoot any deer with the bow, especially for a beginner, then you start taking away opportunities and making it more difficult, not sure how that would work.

I try to wait to shoot a mature deer myself and a doe or two, until this year I hadn't shot a buck with any weapon since 2006, completely by choice, pretty much every year I could punch my buck tag within the first week if I chose, but I don't because it's my CHOICE to wait it out. But Joe average with only a few days to hunt wants to pin the first deer that walks by, and that's cool. So it's not for everyone and there is no chance ever that everyone can be pleased.

Also, tell me out of all the "known" big buck states, like Iowa, Illinois, Ohio, Kentucky, Missouri ect., how many of them have APR's in place....? I think just parts of Missouri but I could be wrong. The big factor is they have thier gun season outside of the rut. And some states residents can actually shoot 2 bucks per year, one gun one bow. So what is wrong in MN.? DO we have that many more hunters, that big of a difference in gentics? I don't know the answer.

[bottom-bouncer]

match set Thats what I was aiming at! given a chance most if not all bucks will grow into more than a spike or fork. The reason most think that you will have highgrding or older bucks with poor genetics is because they have never seen a five year old buck.

[InTheNorthwoods]

Also, tell me out of all the "known" big buck states, like Iowa, Illinois, Ohio, Kentucky, Missouri ect., how many of them have APR's in place....? I think just parts of Missouri but I could be wrong. The big factor is they have thier gun season outside of the rut. And some states residents can actually shoot 2 bucks per year, one gun one bow. So what is wrong in MN.? DO we have that many more hunters, that big of a difference in gentics? I don't know the answer.

They all have some form of restriction that MN does not have. They either have a buck tag lottery, no party hunting, later/earlier firearm season, no rifles, APR's, less hunters, etc. So, no matter what, you can't compare any of those states with a "blanket". Minnesota has the genetics (look at the record books), but we don't have the overall age structure - age is the biggest factor in growing big deer. The end point is that MN has the perfect storm for killing lots of bucks (and mostly small bucks). We have very high hunter numbers, over the counter buck tags, gun season during the rut, party hunting, no restrictions on what can be shot (prior to this season), and a long standing mentality for many that it is bad to shoot does. Add that to the fact many people only view hunting as being successful if you shoot a deer (or "fill out") and you end up with a pile of young bucks compared to other states.

I still think having lottery for gun buck tags and ending party hunting is the best solution. Change the season dates = gravy on top. (this is just the simple version, I have lots of corresponding ideas and rationale for my general opinion).

[Bear55]

The reason most think that you will have highgrding or older bucks with poor genetics is because they have never seen a five year old buck.

Aint that the truth. When I was younger I remember guys shooting 2.5 year old 6 or 8 pointers and half the people thought they were an old deer on their way down. That or they thought that is as big as that buck was going to get and only the rarest of rare deer got big, they all get plenty big if you give them a few years.

[DoubleLunger]

FAVOR OF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[james_walleye]

I am not against shooting small bucks. However, I do not shoot anything smaller that an 8 myself. I believe that if a person buys a tag and pays there good hard earned money and spends the time in the woods they should be able to shoot any deer that they see fit for themselves. Big bucks are great but you can't eat the horns. We all have our own idea of a trophy animal. For me it would be any buck that i call in at any time of the year. For a kid just starting out hunting it might be a little fork or a spike. I believe that there should be no restriction on the size of the antler the animal has in order to be taken. It should be the individuals choice to take the animal or let it walk. I also have a question about this if you are not allowed to shoot anything but a big buck how do you expect the bad genetics of a five year old spike or four year old fork to get out of the area?

Under what rules are you only allowed to shoot big bucks? You do realize that under APR's that this is a legal buck:

[BigJakeL]

It is simply by choice! I let small buck grow. That deer at the end of the season i might think about putting on the ground!

[psepuncher]

counting points is dumb.

I'd rather see a slot limit outside the ears or,

one that says the belly sags and they must be gimmped up

like fester

[matchset]

Rippin! i understand your fervor and i completely respect it! we've all been there before! that first "monkey" is tough to get off the back of a beginning bowhunter.

luckily, archery season is 105 days. thats 15 full weekends!

when i started bowhunting, APR was not even a concept. nevertheless, i didn't harvest my first archery deer till my Fifth season!

bowhunting is a challenge, and i believe thats a reason why a lot of us do it!

[analyzer]

The DNR can track our individual success. How about a 2 year APR. If you haven't tagged a deer in 2 years, the 3rd year, you can shoot any buck. Then you're back on APR restrictions.

In the 300 series, they allow a 17 year old or younger to shoot whatever, but I have a 22 yr old nephew, and 41 yr old brother, who are both in just their 3rd year of hunting, and neither have shot a deer yet. I don't think they should have to pass on a 6 pointer if it walks by.

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I'll say this, I think the restrictions make it hard on the open-site shotgun hunters in low light situations. You may have to pass on a border-line qualifier because you're not certain if he has 4 or not. Thankfully I have a scope on all of my shotguns, so that shouldn't be an issue.

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Exactly what is the procedure if someone shoots a big 6 and realizes too late they don't have any brow tines? Call the DNR and report a violation on ourself? What is the fine? I could see it happening even to someone who is fairly respectful of the laws.

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I don't do drives; I think they are dangerous. However, does an antler restriction kill that kind of hunting? I personally don't agree with shooting at deer on the run, but some people have hunted that way for generations. Now they have to count points with the deer bouncing up and down on the run? I can see where deer drives may go out the window.

[Rippinlip]

Exactly what is the procedure if someone shoots a big 6 and realizes too late they don't have any brow tines? Call the DNR and report a violation on ourself? What is the fine? I could see it happening even to someone who is fairly respectful of the laws.

According to the law this would be an illegally shot deer and what you are going to do is ??????? Good Luck.

Turn yourself in and face the fine? Up to you.

Let the deer lay and move on...??? Do not say anything???

This will happen this year and what happens...?

I know people are going to say you MUST make sure, but someone WILL make a mistake, and what happens at that point I am sure we will hear about it.

[Jameson]

The DNR can track our individual success. How about a 2 year APR. If you haven't tagged a deer in 2 years, the 3rd year, you can shoot any buck. Then you're back on APR restrictions....

Very interesting concept. I would like to twist it a bit, if you shoot a buck than the following two, three years your on APR's. Maybe that is the same as what you meant, but from what I read even if you don't shoot a buck in year 3 the fourth year your back on APR's.

[psepuncher]

since we're following suit of some {not so perfect} other states regulations with APR's...

I thought I'd post one from Pennsylvania Penn PA or whatever. I can't find the consequences though...hmmm

Also I think they're a 3 point state instead of 4 point APR

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This is not MN it's PA's rules.

hunters may shoot multiple deer before tagging. Deer must be tagged immediately after they are harvested {gutted or field dressed} and before the carcass is moved. The tag must be attached to the ear and remain attached until the deer is processed for consumption or prepared for mounting.

Any hunter who by accident or mistake kills an illegal deer

is required to deliver the carcass - entrails removed - within 24 hours of the kill to any Game Commission officer in the county where the deer was killed. A written statement also must be provided to the officer explaining when, where and how the accident or mistake occurred. The deer must be tagged with the appropriate deer harvest tag.

[Sproguy]

I have done a 180 on this issue. I was 100% in, but after a long seasons of bow hunting hard and not seeing many good bucks I am starting to question. Here is my situation, I have access to 40 acres in Wabasha County. So in theory I am in a great zone to shoot a really good buck. BUT, 40 is really small when you see my valley. For guys that have access to 400 how many 40 acres sections could I carve out and you wouldn't sit in that area if your life depended on it.

So I am willing to wait and am ok with it but for the guy that begs and pleads and finally get access to a small plot of land perhaps after a long season his trophy changes. Mine hasn't yet but I hope guys can see my point.

Also on the same 40 my wife is trying for the second year to bag her first deer, she wants a buck! I am real proud of her for waiting but she wants a buck just like the guys! RippinLips was right she deserves the chance to take what ever buck/deer makes her happy. My/Her license cost the same as yours, trophies like beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

So sorry to say I have changed my mind and now am against it for the big picture. I will still practice it for my personal hunting but no longer am willing to tell another guy/gal what their dreams/trophies should be.

[Musky Buck]

Not for it not against it, but far to many little bucks are gunned down yearly, there isn't enough sanctuary areas in many places to grow decent bucks as pretty much all the land in my area is hunted heavily and driven out after that,now muzzied after that, talking to the meat locker people the deer are getting smaller and smaller and smaller to where it now is what it is in my area, maybe not yours. Guess why Fort Ripley can produce legit large bucks year after year, couple of factors, guess why an average area in the state might not have a mature buck on it for years on end, read thee above. I'd rather go deerless which happens, then to join the gun it down crowds in my area. Not trying to impose the go-grow which I encourage and many would say you want to impose your way on us, well right now the gun it down crowd is imposing their way on me with far too many resources to find extra buck tags and instead of a 2 day season they get 25. It would be nice to see a mixture of bucks in their bachelor herds in the summer like it once was, not 3 yearlings and a 2.5 year old, now that 2.5 is a trophy in our area, something should change, not saying APR is why we are where we are, pressure, heavy pressure that's why old zone 4 split was a success in my eyes.

[JeffB]

I guess the nice thing about not having enough big bucks is that we don't attract many tourist hunters. Lets say we put in the APR and have ample amounts of trophy deer and gain a reputation at a top whitetail state. Now you have large groups of hunters coming from other states to get a crack at MN white tails. Then they raise the licence prices to limit the number of hunter. Next step is to have a lottery so you can only get a buck tag once every four years or so. You also get an increase in the amount of outfitters and fee hunting. Right now its tough to get a trophy deer but you have the opportunity every year at a reasonable price. If your someone from your family wants to come hunt with you from out of state they can, and still at a reasonable price. For me its more about the tradition of MN deer hunting than getting a wall hanger every couple years. I'll be proud of my son's first 3x3 basket rack that he takes, I'll also be taking a trip to Montana in a couple weeks for a chance at a big buck. My self and 4 friends got lucky enough to win the lottery and all got buck tags for out there. For mere $373 each we will hopefull each bring home a trophy that would have meant more to us if it was shot here at home. Next year they are raising the price to over $500 for a tag. I don't know what the answers are, but I love my MN dear season and hope not to have to enter a lottery to do it.

[bottom-bouncer]

there are so many what if what if my wife wants to shoot a little buck what if my neighbors nephews neighbors son-in law who hasnt hunted before has a world record six pointer show up. Here is what my answers are for all of you. first if you wife or another person you know has never had the oppurtunity to hunt before the were a legal adult then I think you need to look further than the current deer season regulations for answers. Start with your father in-law ask him why he never took the time to take her when she was young the same can apply to a friend ask his father why everything else was more important than teaching there son or daughter the value of the outdoors. I do understand that life is not always fair but that is life some will have to wait for 4pts or better before harvesting there first buck. On another note was listening to lou on the radio this morning some intersting tid bits concerning south east minnesota( The only area effected by APR) 90% of 2 1/2 year old bucks sport a 8 pt rack or better 99.9% of 3 1/2 year old bucks sport 8 pt rack or better. Are there big 6pt racks around yes there are but there numbers are so minimal theat they can not be managed for or even considerd a factor in establishing a managment plan. Straight from lou's mouth.

[Jameson]

Currently not many 3.5 year old 6 pointers, give it 20-50 years of APR's and their will be more. With a buck lottery the low percentage of 6 pointers likely would stay the same.

[bottom-bouncer]

Currently not many 3.5 year old 6 pointers, give it 20-50 years of APR's and their will be more. With a buck lottery the low percentage of 6 pointers likely would stay the same.

Were do you come up with this information? were do you come up with this there is nothing that supports this theory none! so please tell us were you get your info. I would love to hear how you decide wich 1 1/2 year old dear will only grow to be a 6 pt when its 3 1/2. Please share this so we can all be smarter hunters. I mean what do you look at when decideing to harvest that spike or fork that is 1 1/2 yrs old. I gaurentee there are alot of other hunters here that would love to know this information.