Quick survey of my own curiosity on "point restriction"

[VMS]

Hi Everyone,

Sitting on stand this weekend in a public hunting area around Longville, I started to think about the whole point-restriction idea that is in effect for some regions and am interested in other's input....

The area I have hunted (both archery and rifle) sees a huge amount of pressure during rifle season, and it continues to increase. In our area alone, there are probably around 20 - 25 people rifle hunting in a square mile area, and definitely more than that I don't know about. The mentality in the area is essentially "if it has horns, shoot it" due to more people than deer, so few, if any bucks ever reach any sort of age where they can get a decent rack. I feel as though if one walks by I might as well take it since it will probably be taken during rifle season anyway. My experience alone has shown this multiple times over the past 10 years or so...

So...question is this... would you, or would you not, support a state wide point-restriction law for all seasons (bow, gun, muzzle) with the hopes of producing a more quality-antlered deer population across the state? Why or why not? How do you feel a point-restriction law might affect the overall populations?

Thanks everyone...

Steve

[MUSKY18]

I would definately be in favor of the point restriction, but not through out the entire state. Perhaps in select areas where it is extremely hard to get good quality bucks. The area we hunt sounds about the same as yours VMS. Almost everyone up there has the "brown is down" theory to hunting. Can't ever have the chance to shoot a mature buck when they are all shot as 2-3 year olds!

[TruthWalleyes]

Here's my point of view.

Zone 348 - Intensive Harvest, where i will be hunting this year, i support 4point antler regs....Why, because people can still fill tags with does, and all those 1-2 year old bucks will grow larger for next year.

Zone 347, Lottery, Last year was managed, year prior was intensive...I do not support the antler restrictions (I have hunted this zone a lot the last 3 years, and will not be this year)...Why, because hunters will shoot every deer that qualifies, and you will be left with a bunch of does, and yearling bucks. People will have a hard time filling tags in that zone, at least people who don't have much time to hunt.

Again,

I support the antler restrictions in managed, or intensive harvest areas.

But for lottery areas, how will it grow bigger bucks, i think you will grow more numbers of bucks, but they will not be bigger. All does, and 1-2 yr bucks will be left for next year....

[TruthWalleyes]

The area i grew up in, Fulda Mn, has VERY FEW BIG HORNS...Why, because it is a lottery area, and they're giving away 25 doe permits for the last 2 years straight...so if you want any venison weiners, you have to shoot A buck, and that means ANY buck....To this day i've never seen an alive 10 point buck, and very few 8 pointers.

How would antler mngt help that area - you just wouldn't shoot any deer. To grow the bucks in the lottery area, they need to allow people to NOT shoot bucks, by giving them a doe tag.

Give doe tags- allow antler point restrictions

Can't shoot does- no antler restrictions IMO.

[Cheetah]

So...question is this... would you, or would you not, support a state wide point-restriction law for all seasons (bow, gun, muzzle) with the hopes of producing a more quality-antlered deer population across the state? Why or why not? How do you feel a point-restriction law might affect the overall populations?

I would not. I do not hunt for horns to put on the wall to collect dust or lay on my garage floor. My goal each year is one deer for the freezer, maybe a second for sausage and jerky and to give to friends and family. Whether that is from a young buck or a doe, it doesn't matter much to me. If anything the young ones are nice and tender and better for eating.

As far as overall population, I would rather see a more accurate count of deer per area and less doe tags available in areas that have already had their populations cut by large amounts yet people still try to shoot many more deer than they really need. This is especially an issue where I hunt in WI.

[Jameson]

I do not support APR's. Give us a buck lottery like we have a doe lottery. It is better in every way except one, we are not guaranteed to have a deer license every year. I can live with that trade off to have better hunting for everyone when we do get to hunt.

I could go on and on...but this has been brought up many times in the past.

[DHost21]

If you are just hunting for meat it really shouldnt bother you that much just take a doe then!! I am for APR big time i am sick of people doing the "if its brown its down" and especially after losing hunting land and having to hunt more public land lately i would love to see bigger bucks on public land and i would love to see people hold off on certain deer.

[Getanet]

Against it state-wide.

Most years I shoot a doe anyway, but I'm not going to tell the guy in the next stand over what he can and can't shoot.

[ANYFISH2]

For myself, I am for APR's, I want to see more mature bucks. Although If it came down to a vote I would vote NO. I do not want to help restrict someone elses hunt, we all find success in different ways, mine is no better than someone elses'. There are a lot of quality bucks in MN, we just have to work harder to find them, I value things I have to work for, no one else has to sacrifice for me.

[TruthWalleyes]

If you are just hunting for meat it really shouldnt bother you that much just take a doe then!! I am for APR big time i am sick of people doing the "if its brown its down" and especially after losing hunting land and having to hunt more public land lately i would love to see bigger bucks on public land and i would love to see people hold off on certain deer.

You can only shoot a doe if it is legal in that zone...look at how many zones are lottery. Those in the lottery won't be filling their freezer.

[MUSKY18]

However, since this is posted in the Archery forums........anyone can take a doe in any location in the state with thier Archery license. Now you have a point if talking firearms only.

[DHost21]

Thank you for clearing that for me musky18 that is what i was talking about. With a bow you can take whatever. I dont see the negatives to it ive heard all the peoples reasons they dont want it and they all sound like they just dont want to get told what to do and dont want more rules which i dont understand... everyone thinks rules are to take away from them but be patient and 5 years from now everyone will be happy seeing more big bucks

[ANYFISH2]

DHost, I agree that it would improve the age structure of bucks meaning large antlers. I like the idea for myself, but i am not about to force others to do things to benifit me!

Plus, it is a dangerous area we as hunters are treading in if we start to value a deers life more by it antler size than for its table fare and/or the tradition of hunting that started it all for US!

[Rippinlip]

I really enjoy seeing bigger bucks, but I would NOT vote for any state wide law like this, I am against more laws of this coming into affect.

I have not seen many forms of government ever back off on a law, they usually go for more not less.

I believe this could be done with hunter education and not a mandated law.

I would like for someone that supports this law, answer this.

What are you looking for in a "bigger buck"? 140"-150", plus?

Seems to me SOME, not all of the supporters want bigger bucks, but then they shoot(harvest) 115-130" class bucks. Seems hiprocitical to me. I think there license should be stamped, "I support APR and I will only shoot a 145+" buck!. Of course do not charge them more..just the statement.

Ruffled feathers coming my way I know.....

[nonteepical]

do some research guys. it's proven, after the first year of point restrictions, deer harvest for bucks 2 1/2 years and older, has the same success rate as before point restrictions were in place. meaning buck success rate dosen't change but now you are taking larger antlered bucks. I'd rather the DNR did more education on the subject (in the hunting rule book for instance) too many people don't understand the theory.

[alwaysonthemove]

What are you looking for in a "bigger buck"? 140"-150", plus?

Seems to me SOME, not all of the supporters want bigger bucks, but then they shoot(harvest) 115-130" class bucks. Seems hiprocitical to me. I think there license should be stamped, "I support APR and I will only shoot a 145+" buck!. Of course do not charge them more..just the statement.

Ruffled feathers coming my way I know.....

[BRULEDRIFTER]

APR's and the obsession with score and size of bone is what will eventually destroy our hunting heritage!

Look at Texas, THAT is the future of hunting with today's mindset. FAIL!

[ANYFISH2]

nonteepical, most of us understand the positives, but why do we need more regulations JUST to have larger bucks and take opportunities away from some. The change in attitude is already starting without regulation. Maybe it is not fast enough for you, it is a changing none the less. I will always believe in the hunters choice to harvest what they want, with restrictions only based on population NEEDS (limited doe harvest) to sustain herd size at proper levels.

For those whom love antlers(myself included) restrict yourself and respectfully educate others about the benefits of letting young bucks grow. Like I have said before, through hard work we will truely reep the benifits. I will not force others to do the work for me.

[DHost21]

I would love to see more 140- 150" bucks around and thats why i dont shoot any bucks until atleast 3 1/2 years old. I know there are a lot of hypocrates out there that will shoot small ones but part of that is cause there isnt a 140 or 150 walking around by them at all. A lot of public land and stuff makes it hard to pass the young deer cause its just gonna get shot by the next guy. I would much rather take a doe than a young buck myself anyways just in the hopes it makes it but the chances are slim. If there was a APR that buck would make it and more people would take does in like metro areas or areas that need more does taken out i think would be a good start and see where it goes from there

[nonteepical]

anyfish, my point was meant to be, do some education to the public instead of regulations. that being said when harvest reports show in other states with APR's that buck harvest success stays the same after the first year, no one is out anything.

[bottom-bouncer]

anyfish, my point was meant to be, do some education to the public instead of regulations. that being said when harvest reports show in other states with APR's that buck harvest success stays the same after the first year, no one is out anything.

I think education is wishfull thinking. I wish more people could come to understand the importance of letting the little bucks walk but to many just cant let them walk away. I know several people who try to restrain themselves but come the last weekend and they shoot some little guy. Because (if I didnt shoot him I would have had to eat my tag. Its the same mentality as those people who think that spending $27 should guarantee them a deer. When in reality it gives you the right to try and shoot a deer. I support apr 100% statewide as long as there are provisions allowing youth to take what ever they choose.

[Dark Cloud]

It's a touchy subject but im against QDM and AR's. I dont want my state or any state telling Joe Regular who can only hunt 3 weekends a year and wants to shoot a spiker or 4 pt that he cant. I commend folks who hold out and limit themselfs to a bigger buck. But it's not for everyone.

I like seeing big bucks and have been lucky enough to harvest a few but I think folks get pie-eyed from watching shows and reading mags with all these huge bucks. And think AR's and QDM's will produce that...

Fine, go purchase a few hundred acres or more and give it a whirl. Just dont force it on the masses.

Im lucky, I can hunt alot if I want and have acces to good land. Plus we are allowed to harvest 2 bucks(one bow, one gun) and 1-3 doe depending on where you live. That being said any deer is a trophy especially with archery gear. Im just as proud of smaller deer as I am with "trophys". The hunting experience means many differnt things to many differnt people...

[psepuncher]

apr's can ruin a genetic structure,

ask me how I know........

[Jack Stasney]

When I think about this subject and why I'd want to have something like an APR put into place I find myself jealous. I want to shoot a big buck just like that other guy. So basically I'll do anything to get what I want. Where does it stop? Feeders? Fences? At this point I am not really hunting anymore IMO. I'm not saying anybody is right or wrong here, but just because I want to shoot a big buck I shouldn't be able to force someone else into a situation where they can't take the deer they want. If there is a reason where leaving bucks get bigger will help the overall population of deer and therefore make everyone a more successful hunter by all means do it. You know kind of like doe permits or walleye slots, we do it because the population is low and that means nobody gets a deer/fish if we don't do it. I don't feel APR is this kind of thing and because of this am not for it. I mean if I said nobody should harvest a walleye under 28 inches because I can't catch any big walleyes, well I'm sure you get my point.

[Jameson]

Some are posting that the only reason not to shoot the young bucks is to grow big antlers. Their is more to it than that. I have read a study somewhere that 15-20% of MN deer die annually from something other than hunting. It may be vehicles or succumbing to the vigors of winter, or disease. We can do something to help more young bucks survive winter. That would be have more older bucks around. Older bucks are bigger animals and will be better situated to survive winter after the rut. Older bucks will dominate an area and not let the young bucks overdue themselves during the rut. Sure some young bucks will still do some breeding, but not as much. This will lead them to be in better condition to survive the winter.

Still I will not support APR's as their are too many potential negatives attached to them. Some include the negative effects of high-grading, and the increase in illegal deer left to lay after being mis-identified as a legal animal. Please give us a buck lottery.