Some pics of my 16 week old GSP working birds

[MuleShack]

I took my pup out to a hunt club last week just to get him introduced to some bird behavior and possibly a little into to guns as well. Note I was only armed with a .22 pistol and a camera.

It was definitely a fun experience watching this young guy go from not wanting to leave my side at the beginning of the hunt/walk to him finding 4 out of 5 birds by himself. I forgot to tell the guy planting the birds that I had a young pup so he planted them over half of the field and with out flags to mark them even.

Before starting the hunt I clipped a wing on a chuckar so that he would get a little birdy and hoped it would be enough that he could keep eluding the dog, but after a short chase he caught the bird and brought it back to me.

We then started to walk the field and he kept by my side as if on a regular walk. I kept changing directions hoping that he would open up a little. It didn't take long and he was sniffing weeds and smelling the ground and soon he was venturing out in front of me sniffing stuff. I let him pick the direction and it was about 15 minutes before he actually caught a scent that he inquisitively followed and he jumped the bird by pure accident. After that it got his motor running and the brain clicked and it was like he now knew what he was supposed to do. He proceeded to work the field until he found 3 more birds...so for a 16 week old pup he found 4 out of 5 planted birds with out any guidance. I was there with no expectations and to merely watch and see what he had in him and he really surprised me.

It was really fun to see the progression of this young fella and interesting to watch his thought process evolve thru out the hunt. It only lasted a little over an hour but was one of the best experiences I have had with my dogs.

Here is a pic of him with the clipped winged bird on the retrieve.

The last series is of him when he was onto the last chuckar.

The background on the series is that he caught the scent in this pic.

Being young not sure of the range of the scent he pounced but came up short of the bird.

He kept on the trail and crept forward and the bird flushed but only flew about 20 yards and landed again and started to run.

He took off after the bird and it wasnt long before the bird took off again.

Trigger was in hot pursuit of the bird the whole way.

[LatLong]

That's awesome! Just the beginning of many proud moments for you. There is nothing quite like seeing your young dog start to get the hang of things.

[Ely Lake Expert]

Awesome pictures. I love seeing a young gsp out doing its thing.

[CJH]

Looks like a great dog!!

I own a lab but love GSP's as well!!!

[gspman]

Congrats, cute pup and looks like he has some drive. I'd caution you against letting your pup catch any more planted birds. You want him to start pointing now. Put him on a checkcord so you have more control. When he scents the bird make him stop right there and point. Have a training partner go in front and flush the bird. Lots of calm praise when he does it right.

[rwwong]

Sounds awesome, I remember the feeling of elation myself. Looks like you will have plenty of great memories ahead in the field. Congrats!

[MuleShack]

Thanks for the info gspman, first time with a gsp, so any advice is welcome. How long do u wait until actually Shooting a bird over the pup? Or are dead/downed birds ok? I understand the concept with live birds, just wondering if dead/wounded ones will dilute the training.

[pointers]

you will want him to be crazy for birds and also to be staunch on point and be ok with the gun. when he is doing good with all of these things is when you can shoot a bird for him. that will be his reward for doing a good job. we know he likes birds at this time. now is the time to start working the whoa command.

[TylerS]

I don't know...my view is a tad different than some of these other guys, but take it as it is.

I picked up my pup at 9 weeks old back in July. At the time, I had asked the breeder what kind of training I should concentrate on. He said to focus on obedience training. I asked if it would be too early to bring the pup hunting this fall. He said the pup should be brought out hunting every chance he gets (in the assumption he wasn't gunshy). His theory was its better to get the dog out early with little or no expectations for him and get a season under his belt before hitting the training hard in the spring and summer.

That's exactly what I've been doing. We work on obedience stuff every day, and we have done plenty of fetch playing and woah training on the table (kind of an extra thing, but I felt he was ready for it). When we hunt, I'm out strictly for fun. I know that at his age, I want him to get to experience the sights, sounds, smells and feel of hunting. If he gets a bird, that's a bonus.

So take that as my $.02. If you are able to test for gunshyness and he passes, get him out hunting with you. Don't worry about him bumping birds or even if he just sniffs around and eats deer [PoorWordUsage] (mine does). I've had Remy out a handful of times already, and it is absolutely astonishing how much he's picked up just by going out and hunting. There are things I just can't train him to do, and the quicker you can get your dog out, the more likely it will happen on it's own.

[Acemac]

IMO use live birds to introduce the gun. every time my 6 month old french britt hears a gun shot she stops and looks right up in the air.

[gspman]

Quote:

How long do u wait until actually Shooting a bird over the pup? Or are dead/downed birds ok? I understand the concept with live birds, just wondering if dead/wounded ones will dilute the training.

Get the pup conditioned to guns first. Start with small gun at a distance and build up from there till you eventually shoot birds over. I'd work on the pup's pointing before retrieving. A pointer that doesn't point is a sad affair. Retrieving can come later.

[MuleShack]

Sounds good. I did fire the .22 pistol off once while one of the birds was jumped and he slowed slightly and looked back at me but then kept going. He was slightly timid on occasions at home so thats why I dont want to rush it with the gun.

We work on retrieving at home and he is getting pretty good with bringing the bumper back. He is a quick study, and is picking up the obedience commands real well.

Will probably hit the hunt club a few more times and work on getting him to point and hold before I take him out in the field with my chocolate lab. This way I can work in the intro to guns a little deeper.

What is the behavior supposed to be once the bird flushes(or is kicked up)? Do you want the dog to take off after the bird or are they suppose to hold position until you release them or what?

[870Express]

MuleShack - most pointer guys want a steady dog through the bird dropping and until release. Keep that dog dragging a long checkcord for now and take him into a bird with the wind blowing from side to side so the scent hits him all at once. You'll know when it hits him. Tighten up on the cord if he tries to creep in or pounce hard. Be very calm in all this as to not take the attention off the bird. If the dog sits, pick him back up and firmly put him down on all fours. If he stops for a moment, then creeps, pick him up and firmly put him back down on all fours where he first stopped. Do not scold or make a fuss, focus should be on the bird. Once in place, bend down behind him and quietly pet and calmly praise him. Have your friend go in and flush the bird and make him be steady throughout.

Once he gets the idea down that he needs to stop when comming into scent, take him hunting if you want. He doesn't need to be steady throughout right away. Only wild birds will teach him to be steady as they will flush if he creeps in or bumps them. Flush = no shot bird.

[MuleShack]

Thanks 870!!

[gspman]

Quote:

What is the behavior supposed to be once the bird flushes(or is kicked up)?

It really depends on what you want but the vast majority of hunters let their dog go with the bird. Steady to wing and shot is nice but takes a lot of training to get them there and then to keep them there. At a minimum make sure you can get in front of your dog and flush the bird yourself without your dog's help. If he moves during the flushing process stop him, pick him up and put him back where he was pointing and whoa him. Fully breaking him STWS will make him a more honest and reliable bird dog IMHO.

[Acemac]

work Whoa more. I have been doing whoa at the food dish and every day on a saw horse.

And remeber you still have a puppy! that has been the toughest thing for me just reminding myself that this is a pup.

[MuleShack]

Thanks for all the info here guys.

I took the wife along on Saturday afternoon to the hunt club to help me work on the pointing.

We flagged 3 birds for the Pup and he was an animal with finding the scent and doing the initial lock up. I tightened up on the lead and started using the whoa command as he wanted to "find it". The first one took a few minutes for him to settle but he never took focus off of the bird the whole time. He steadied and then I sent the wife in to flush the bird and fired the pistol a few times on the flush right over him with no issues.

We repeated this process on the next two birds and are making some head way. Doesn't look like the gun is going to be an issue as his "focus" or intensity is very high.

Gotta keep working each week and then get him on wild birds.

Being I will have him hunting with my lab in the future, I cant see him holding point thru the shot as the lab will be in hot pursuit of the bird and cant expect him to hold position. I'll be happy if i can get him solid on the point thru the flush and then train the lab to respect the point too

[Acemac]

make sure the lab respects a point or you will just have 2 flushers on your hands

[Harmonica Bear]

Teaching the lab to honor point would be nice, but when the dog goes on point it should be in front of the lab or to the side, can't you just command the lab to stop or stay or sit or heel? Then go in and flush?

[MuleShack]

Teaching the lab to honor point would be nice, but when the dog goes on point it should be in front of the lab or to the side, can't you just command the lab to stop or stay or sit or heel? Then go in and flush?

My lab listens pretty good, so I don't anticipate any problems there prior to the flush. She only works about 30-50' out from me side to side so If I can get him to point out front farther I can control her while I flush. Its as soon as the bird goes up that the lab will want to be in hot pursuit. Trying to control that will be a training issue, as the GSP should be the one retrieving his pointed bird.

On Saturday I also had the lab along to work 3 birds on the back side of the field after we got done with the GSP. The second bird i barely hit it and it flew and glided probably 200 yards. She was in hot pursuit of that bird from the flush. She was only a mere dot in the plowed field next to the field we were hunting and all you could see was a poof of dust and she was coming back...She got the bird. Not sure how I would stop her with out breaking that drive to retrieve. From what I have read, a long follow and retrieve like that is what you eventually want from an experienced lab. I dont want to use the Ecollar in a situation like that so she doesn't associate the zap with going after birds. Perhaps if I give her the "Stay" command before the Frenzy of the flush it will be and easier situation to control.

[caseymcq]

Great pics!

I kid you not, I grin everytime I see your avatar.

[870Express]

Doesn't look like the gun is going to be an issue as his "focus" or intensity is very high.:

This is key. Keep these sessions about the birds. When I first got my dog I was still in school in St. Paul so I tried to pack everything I could into every live bird session I had. Overwelmed the dog and he lost focus on the bird and focused more about steadying - not good. You will be able to tell when you are pushing this point as he will lose his "style" and maybe look away from the direction of the bird or put his front leg down. If this happens, back off and let him hold his birds for a bit longer without your interference. When he is on point on a training bird, your role is to keep him in one place and thats it. The focus of the training should always be between him and the bird.

Sounds like you are on track, keep us updated as I do not have a puppy right now and the highs/lows/frusterations to go along.

[CaptainMusky]

make sure the lab respects a point or you will just have 2 flushers on your hands

VERY good point. Many years ago I bought a Springer because I thought they were a neat dog. I also had a GSP. I thought this was going to be an excellent marriage. The GSP would go on point and the Springer would flush the bird, win-win scenario. WRONG!

It was a nightmare hunting with a pointing dog and a flusher. Each one individually were excellent hunters, but the Springer would mess up the GSP something fierce when working a scent. He would cut in front of him all the time and just totally mess things up.

So, you could imagine if you have a GSP that normally ranges out a bit farther than a flusher, who now is getting pushed by a flusher it led to many frustrating wild flushes out of range.

Granted, this may not be your experience, but it was not a good deal and now if I hunt with a guy who has a flusher I walk way away from them so to keep them working separate areas.

Just the look on the dog's face when they are locked up on point and some other dog comes bulldozing through was enough to see it was frustrating to them too.

[MuleShack]

I got some time work with the little man on some pointing training again. I was using 2 dogtra lauchers (thanks Setterguy) with pigeons. We had been working on the "whoa" command for about 2 weeks now in the house and outside and he was holding that pretty solid until released.

The first couple birds I placed out and then kept his lead attached and let him hunt out infront until he got the scent. I didn't place too far out because I was working on holding and not neccesarily finding. The first one he caught wind and then locked up with his right foot up in the air. I started saying whoa, had to tog the lead one time and then move him back a little and then after he was holding for 15 seconds I started to give him a little low key praise. I let this go for maybe another 15 seconds and then whoa'd him again as I walked out front and then remotely released the bird. Good or bad, I let him go at that point and he started to follow the flying bird. He seen it wasn't coming down so he returned (after I called him) and we repeated this for another 5 birds.

He was holding tight on his own with out me having to hold him on the cord or move him back in place, when he would lock up, he would hold it. The only thing that was different was his position. I never had a pointer before, but are they suppose to always be in a certain pointing position or do they just lock up in the position they are in when they catch the scent? Like said the first point was a typical straight on, head low, right foot raised lock up. He did the same thing on the second bird, but from there on he didn't raise a leg. A few of them he was crossing the scent and just turned his head sideways and locked up (at a 90' angle) and then he was straight on another time with out the foot raise but steadied.

The last 2 birds I put out probably 60 yards and by the time I got back and got he dog ready I didn't remember exactly where I had placed them. I figured he was doing good so I let the lead go and let him show me what he learned. We started walking a little and I reached for the remote and I was fiddling with it to "locate" the first launcher and by the time I pressed the button and looked up to locate the beep...I saw Trigger holding on point about 10' from the launcher. I gave him a whoa and he held, I came up to him and said good boy then walked in front of him and released the bird. He ran after it in the air again and I had to call him back. He found the last bird, but got pretty close to it so I released it as he locked up, and that was the end of our training session. We walked the WMA for a little while just to let him run free and to get some more exercise.

**All the bird placements were at different spots, never to the exact same spot**(learned that from a book once )

Didn't do any shooting this time out, want to get him set on finding and pointing first. I'm thinking this dog has some good instincts, cause I cant be that good at training. We're probably going to go out later this week again with some pigeons and if he is holding his points good, I might shoot one over him and work on the retrieve then.

[setterguy]

Sounds like he's doing great. To answer your question, no they don't always look the same when on point. I've had dogs go on point literally while trying to get under a log, or with their legs crossed in front of them. Whatever position they are in when they hit that scent is what they should do.

Glad those launchers are working out.