No more party hunting in Zone 3, SE MN

[Coach1310]

3. Why can Wisc and IA shoot the number of mature and or B.C bucks that they do while still allowing cross taging simple they dont gun hunt the rut! As for all of you who want to stop all methods of deer hunting during last two weeks of october into december. Really do you think that we bowhunters are really affecting the deer numbers? Give me a break. Those who think this way are ignorant as to how hard it is to shoot any deer with a bow let alone a mature buck. Some have complained about how hard if succesfull this could make getting onto private land. Guess what it already is Near impossible in this part of the state. Public land is already way overcrowded. Unless you live in this area I dont know if you can really understand. .

As a gun and bow hunter I understand what you are saying, BUT if we are really out to improve the amount of mature bucks AND a proposal is out there to move ALL hunting out of a three week span from late October to early November isn't it safe to say that IF no one was allowed to hunt there would be more mature bucks walking than if bowhunters were allowed to hunt. Like I said, I understand what you are saying, BUT have you ever thought of what it is like for folks on the other side? The folks who only rifle hunt and now won't have a chance to hunt that magical time... and since the public land around you is already over crowded, I'm can't imagine you want all those folks taking up bowhunting to make the woods even more crowded.....

The bottom line is, IF we are for more mature bucks, then NO pressure during the rut should be a lot better than SOME pressure... right????

[ejf76]

All I am saying is that bucks and does are viewed differently by the DNR and by most(maybe not all) hunters who pursue them. The regulations should be set up to mimic those general views. The state clearly attempts to limit the amount of bucks shot by only allowing one buck tag per hunter no matter how many seasons you hunt, yet where appropriate, they will issue management tags making it legal to shoot multiple does.

Hypothetically, lets say you rifle hunt with one other person and both of you would gladly let the other one tag a buck if the other was fortunate enough to shoot a 2nd buck. For ease, lets say a tag is $25. You two paid $50 for 2 buck tags. Now if i buy a bow license ($25) and do not shoot a buck before the firearm season, I need to buy a firearm license ($25), but still only have one buck tag. Now I will be the first to say I understand why I need to buy the two licenses to be able to hunt. But other states allow you to shoot more than one buck if you have multiple licenses. So now you or your buddy (hypothetically) get to shoot two bucks for two licenses while someone who wants to hunt with a bow and a firearm (two licenses) has just one buck tag.

Is there an inequity there? Honestly, I don't believe I should be able buy two buck tags, just like I don't believe you should be able to shoot two bucks. But if they stick with allowing party-hunting, then shouldn't that be equalized by allowing multiple buck tags for those hunting multiple seasons/weapons?

[ejf76]

I agree Coach, the best option would be to move the season out of the rut. The problem in Zone 3 is the multiple seasons we have. It would cause A LOT of problems with landowners on who to let hunt, their first season hunters or their 2nd? or if you push back both seasons, now you have a season going through mid-December which swallows up the muzzy season.

I am all for it but I understand how the DNR is stuck on this one.

[LightningBG]

EFJ76, you're stretching the limits of reason.

1. I'm pretty sure they aren't doing it for the money.

2. What if you shoot one with the bow and dont gun hunt at all? Thats only 25 for 1 buck. What if the party hunters bow and gun hunt, shot nothing with the bow and party hunt the 2 bucks in gun? Then its $100 for 2 bucks.

Does it really matter to mother nature if Bob shoots 2 and John watches or if Bob and John each shoot one?

[Getanet]

Does it really matter to mother nature if Bob shoots 2 and John watches or if Bob and John each shoot one?

Couldn't have said it better myself.

1 man = 1 buck allowed

2 men = 2 bucks allowed

Not sure why it matters to anyone else how the two men get 2 bucks provided they do it legally.

[11-87]

Does anybody see a problem with people shooting small bucks, and just leaving them?? or not tagging them and just taking it home to butcher without registration if they get one that isn't of 4 pt restrictions?

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[ejf76]

You're right Lightning, they are not doing it for the money, and I was not trying it to equate to "buying" bucks. Just trying to offer a fresh persepective and throw out a legitimate question. If 1 person is able to shoot two bucks with two buck tags from two licenses in a party hunting situation, then why can't one person get two buck tags for the two separate licenses they are able to purchase?

Its my opinion that you shouldn't be able to do either. One person, one buck tag, one buck. But...if its just about killing the bucks, then by all means let me sign up for another tag.

[mabr]

BigDave, Please note Harvey didnt say what he was killing and giving away to those who can no longer hunt. I would be willing to bet he is talking about does. He says he purchased the tags legally and they were harvested legally. I do the same thing myself as well as untold others every year. The DNR is using us a tool to control populations and I take advantage of that every year.

BUT!!!! there not bucks were giving away they are does.

Harvey goes so far as to say he paid $500+ for a does tag to hunt Iowa with family when he couldnt get a buck tag. So its obviously not just about harvesting bucks for him and I applaud him for that.

[Coach1310]

I agree Coach, the best option would be to move the season out of the rut. The problem in Zone 3 is the multiple seasons we have. It would cause A LOT of problems with landowners on who to let hunt, their first season hunters or their 2nd? or if you push back both seasons, now you have a season going through mid-December which swallows up the muzzy season.

I am all for it but I understand how the DNR is stuck on this one.

I don't necessarily think the SHOULD move the rifle season, I was just pointing out that moving it to protect the bucks, BUT still letting bowhunters hunt is a tough sell for me because as they say "they have little impact on bucks harvested"... but they still have some and if we would go this route, to me it is all or none.... if gun hunter Joe can't hunt the rut, neither should bow hunter Jim...

As far as how it will affect the landowners..... this APR will already cause a headache, because it won't take long and that landowner will be leasing out or selling to the guys with the dough or outfitters in my opinion.

[picksbigwagon]

mabr, you are confusing me and Harvey, yes we are both named Tom but I am the better looking one.......Yes I pay 500 bucks to hunt in iowa (that is doe tag and out of state small game license, something MN doesn't do). We have about 3-400 acres of farms that we have access to hunt. Great hunting land, even better people to hunt with. It is worth the day off of work to drive 4 hours down there....I could hunt around Spring Grove if I wanted to, but solo hunting for almost the whole 3b season is a little taxing on my family time as well.

[bottom-bouncer]

coach I understand what you are saying about it being fair. But in all reality there is no comparision between the gun and a bow. I personally feel good out to 50 yds with my bow rarely am I set up to shoot that far but would have no problem if the oppurtunity arose. Amost all of my bow stands require the deer to present itself at 25 yds or less for a clean shot. With the rifle I am good out to atleast 200yds and there are many people who can reach out alot further. Point being As a bow hunter your odds are already stacked against you And to harvest mature bucks you better be on your A game because they are always even during the peak of the chase phase. Were as if someone has a gun there is so much room for error in your ability. I guess I could go with the stand bye they di it in iowa and wisconsin and it works. wich is why (fingers crossed) I will be in Iowa this fall in early november

[bottom-bouncer]

Another reason to stop cross tagging bucks. Dont they (who ever DNR,experts) say that 20% of the hunters shoot 80% of the deer. Reality says some people just arent as good at hunting as others. If you stop the good hunters from shooting the bucks that others lack the ability or experience to harvest That equates to alot of bucks living to see another season.

[Big Dave2]

Its sad to think that our deer hunting has turned into who can shoot the most deer.

This is the statement I was questioning. I don't care if you are shooting Bucks, Does, or fawns he is still wacking and stacking them.

[harvey lee]

Its not how many I can shoot at all. I will eat 3 deer a season and I have two friends who cannot hunt any longer so I harvest a deer for each of them.

Its in no way a contest. What I harvest is not wasted and there is no contest.

In the past 6-8 years, North Dakota has had numerous chances in the lottery for numerous tags as they are trying to reduce the deer herd. There is no shortage in the area we hunt so we are not hurting the population.

I archery, rifle and muzzleloader about 30-35 day a fall.

You can put your spin on it any way you want Dave.

Seems to me you will continue to.

[mabr]

OOOOOPPs PBW. Here im the one who always crosses my T's and dots my I's...

Sorry about that I thought it was Harvey who said that about the Iowa hunt.

My point still stands about shooting one Buck though.

[Big Dave2]

Its not how many I can shoot at all. I will eat 3 deer a season and I have two friends who cannot hunt any longer so I harvest a deer for each of them.

Its in no way a contest. What I harvest is not wasted and there is no contest.

In the past 6-8 years, North Dakota has had numerous chances in the lottery for numerous tags as they are trying to reduce the deer herd. There is no shortage in the area we hunt so we are not hurting the population.

I archery, rifle and muzzleloader about 30-35 day a fall.

You can put your spin on it any way you want Dave.

Seems to me you will continue to.

You shoot 5 deer yourself but if someone in my party shoots 2 bucks to fill 2 tags out of 5 we are game hogs for some reason............

[harvey lee]

MABR

You are correct, they are doe tags. The ND Game and Fish for the past 6-8 seasons has been trying to reduce the deer herd.

I would love to hunt bucks in Iowa but I cannot seem to convince myself to purchase a $500.00 tag.

I also only harvest 1 buck per season maybe. I only recieve a rifle tag maybe once every 3 seasons. The remainder of my deer are by archery.

[sleben]

When you are party hunting you could have 5 guys trying to fill 1 tag. That would be like Harvey having 24 other hunters helping him fill his 5 tags. It doesn't sound like he needs the help and neither should anyone else.

[Bear55]

You bring up a good point sleben, a larger group of 10 hunters filling 2-1 tags seems to have an unfair advantage over say a small group of 2 hunters trying to fill one tag.

Everyone likes to complain about hunting regs, what can be easier then one hunter, one tag, one buck.

[LightningBG]

Does anybody see a problem with people shooting small bucks, and just leaving them?? or not tagging them and just taking it home to butcher without registration if they get one that isn't of 4 pt restrictions?

I could see it for sure. Pretend like it never happened. You'll get in trouble either way right? (not condoning).

Think anyone has ever accidentally shot a hen pheasant?

I've been a part of a hunting party that was on a special doe only hunt in another state. One of the guys (40 yr hunting veteran) accidentally shot a buck. Who knows how it happened, but it did. We called the CO immediately and he came and got the deer a couple hours latter. Said it happens all the time, thanks for calling.

[LightningBG]

If 1 person is able to shoot two bucks with two buck tags from two licenses in a party hunting situation, then why can't one person get two buck tags for the two separate licenses they are able to purchase?

I think the difference comes in on who is taking possession of the deer. In all the parties I hunt with, whosoever tag is on the deer is taking the deer home with them or all the meat is getting split evenly. Nobody is taking home more than 1 buck.

[Musky Buck]

My own view is 25 gun days is a bit lengthy with party hunting. We used to get either 2 or 4 day season. It just keeps the stands full of hunters as long as they salvage 1 tag and all the hope to muzzy hunt you use other party members tags first so they can wait for Mr. big whether there was truly a party hunt going on or not. It's amazing how much scheming and getting around the system there is going on and if you hunt in that section of land you are up against difficult odds. But, I can face the facts that the golden years of deer hunting in my area are done. Luck is defintely a bigger factor today than it was 20 years ago. Pressure Pressure pressure.

[LightningBG]

My own view is 25 gun days is a bit lengthy with party hunting.

Where is 25 days? unless you count muzzy, if so...

Although gaining steam, there aren't that many people muzzy hunting (63K lic in 2009), and of them the success rate is very low (11% total, ~4% bucks). Add that with how many are really party hunting vs. solo and your talking very small numbers IMO.

Someone mentioned drives, and I think that is where a big problem is. I've been a part of drives and we couldn't even tell you who actually shot the deer, so who is going to tag it then? Or, you've already shot a buck and so your driving towards your buddy who hasn't (posting). Deer is heading for your poster and makes a 180 and come back straight at you. I've had deer darn near run me over (within 6-8 ft). But with no party hunting, you'd have to just dive out of the way instead of dropping it. Could be out there forever waiting for a deer to get in front of the right person in the right position.

And truthfully, I dont think many are "party hunting" for 20-30 days straight, its probably more like a 4-6 day stretch or a couple weekends.

[nonteepical]

pressure?

[ejf76]

I think the difference comes in on who is taking possession of the deer. In all the parties I hunt with, whosoever tag is on the deer is taking the deer home with them or all the meat is getting split evenly. Nobody is taking home more than 1 buck.

Which is all well and good if you're there for the meat, but what happens if that buck is a "trophy", then who puts it on the wall? I am guessing the guy who shot it. So really that hunter has a chance at a trophy, whatever that may be to him, on two separate tags per season.

I know I am throwing out a lot of hypothetical situations, but just trying to make sense of the fact that the one person, one buck tag, one buck is a pretty reasonable regulation when you weigh differing view points. Especially when they will still be allowing cross-tagging of anterless deer.