pulling permit for basement finishing?

[Bigbartguy]

hi folks

it's been 10 yrs since I finished the basement in my old house and I'm about to undertake in our newer home.

I never pulled a permit for the finish in the old house and never had a bit of trouble w/ the city (I live in Coon Rapids). Should I pull permit for the new house basement finish?

I'm not anxious to spend $1000+ for permit when I've never had problem in the past. Legal disclaimer: I wont hold anyone responsible for their answers.

thanks!

[Farmboy1]

Chances are you would never have any problems with the city. They just don't know what people are doing, or have enough time to go look in your windows.

That being said, I would pull a permit for insurance purposes. If anything were to go wrong and something were to happen to your home, most insurance companies will not cover damages that were not inspected. Example if your house bruns down from an electrical issue, and it was not inspected for code issues, you get nothing.

[jbell1981]

I believe it's state law to have any electrical work inspected which would require a permit. If you doing any electrical work, I wouldn't chance it.

[Surface Tension]

I would get all the permits that apply to the work you'll be doing. You'll sleep better.

[Bear55]

I would say at the very least get the electric permit and inspection. I know I have heard before that if you home burns down and it was from faulty wiring that wasn't inspected insurance won't cover it. Not 100% sure if that is true or not but it was enough to convince me to get a permit/inspection.

[SkunkedAgain]

I just pulled construction and electrical permits for my basement remodel. Every friend of mine has laughed or scoffed but I don't care. For the reasons stated above, I'll sleep better at night. Plus, I'm not pompous enough to believe that I know everything so a professional review is fine by me.

I listed my remodel as $500 because I'm just framing a wall (reusing the old wall panels) and adding a few new outlets. The inspections department used a formula and increased the estimate to $1800, then charged me $180 for the two permits. Oh well, that's life in the big city.

[walleyeseeker]

I am a contractor and I can definitely recommend getting the electrical inspected to be legitimate, but I wouldn't worry about the building permit if you know what you are doing. No matter what everyone tries to tell you, the main reason they want you to get a building permit is to make sure they are taxing you enough. The building inspector we have used to show up and look at everything. Now that he knows how we build, he does a "drive by" inspection. If you are confident you know the codes and proper way to build, I wouldn't hassle with the permit.

SkunkedAgain, I have never heard of an inspection department recalculating the cost of construction. I would have argued or at least had a supervisor give me a darn good explanation as to why they think they know better than me what it was going to cost. You are more forgiving person than I am. Good luck with your project.

[BRULEDRIFTER]

Also a contractor here....

Some cities are now doing their own electrical inspections instead of using state inspectors. If that's the case in your city you most likely won't be able to pull an electrical w/o the building finding out.

I've also had state electrical inspectors ask me to see the building inspection card w/ rough in's signed off on prior to signing off on their final electrical. Not really their ball game to get involved in in my book but I pull every necessary permit so I didn't care.

I believe the real estate disclosure statement now asks if any "non-permitted" work has been done to the house. If you plan on ever selling that is also something to look into.

I've also heard the insurance rumors but am unsure if they could really deny anything w/o proving that it was an electrical fire(pretty easy) AND that a code violation caused it(pretty tough in my mind).

If you do go the no permit route keep the dumpster and lumber pile out of site. Some inspectors love to check out things like that and be sure they mesh with a permit.

[Tom7227]

Seems to me that unless you really know what you're doing having an inspector give you some ideas makes sense. For isntance there's a ton of threads here on how to build interior walls in basements. Who's right? Also if you go to sell the place in a few years and the buyer's inspector finds something that's not right you may screw up the sale.

[311Hemi]

For isntance there's a ton of threads here on how to build interior walls in basements. Who's right?

Obviously a number ways to do the walls. If you have a way your interested in using call your local inspector to see if it flies with them (as with anything your looking to do)! I know ours said the usual/common way was just using batted insulation, but he was fine with the rigid insulation as well as long as proper R values were met. I will also be calling and asking about using PEX for plumbing. I know I asked about using the quick fittings once a year ago and he thought they would be fine, but I want to make sure (I don't plan on using the quick fittings though, and may still just use copper since I have a bunch already).

I chose not to get permits. It may very well bite me in the rear when I go to sell, but it's a risk I chose to take. I already knew my basement would not pass code because of ceiling height (I'm 4" too short finished). I will use the space while we live there and if need be will deal with stuff in the future when I decide to sell (which we don't plan on doing any time soon). If it needs to be considered a glorified storage space with a nice large egress window then so be it.

I am building everything to code however (including interconnected fire alarms in all rooms, etc) , and luckily my dad is an union electrician (recently retired), brothers a union carpenter (former carpet/floor installer), and father in law does home remodeling as a business.

[Back2Dakota]

We as plumbers have to be certiied in each type "brand" of PEX we use but since they sell it at home stores (along with thousands of other things that dont meet code-interstate commerce gotta love it..yaaa) I dont know what the rule is for homeowners. If you have the copper use it.We still use copper about 90 % of the time and PEX the rest.

[sparkyaber]

Coon Rapids does have their own Electrical inspector, soooooo... If you get one inspector in the house, you have to get them all. All or nothing, so to speak. What is 1000 dollars on what could be a 20,000 dollar basement? I say cheap insurance.

[Redlantern]

Get the permit and be done with it.

[chad austin]

I am a contractor and I can definitely recommend getting the electrical inspected to be legitimate, but I wouldn't worry about the building permit if you know what you are doing. No matter what everyone tries to tell you, the main reason they want you to get a building permit is to make sure they are taxing you enough. The building inspector we have used to show up and look at everything. Now that he knows how we build, he does a "drive by" inspection. If you are confident you know the codes and proper way to build, I wouldn't hassle with the permit.

SkunkedAgain, I have never heard of an inspection department recalculating the cost of construction. I would have argued or at least had a supervisor give me a darn good explanation as to why they think they know better than me what it was going to cost. You are more forgiving person than I am. Good luck with your project.

WOW!!!, there are so many things wrong with this post if you truly hold a MN Contractors Licence.WOW!!!

GET ALL APPLICABLE PERMITS. There is A LOT of liability involved even after you decide to move out.

[chad austin]

Bigbart originally posted: "I'm not anxious to spend $1000+ for permit when I've never had problem in the past."

Bigbart,

We as a company have been contacted by homeowners after buying a home with elect. problems and after inspecting them with our electrician found faulty workmanship by whoever did the wiring(used the wrong sized wire for 20 amp circuit). After a little investigating with the city and the state we found the previous homeowner never pulled a permit for the work he performed, after pulling all the Sheetrock that needed to be removed, electricians labor and material, drywall company's labor and material,painter's labor and material and all the necessary permits, he would have been better off paying for a $1,000.00 permit.

Agree?

He was also fined by the city and state for not pulling the permits.

[dewey1]

An electrical permit with the state should only cost you $70.00. Not a huge investment. Some city permits may be a little more, but not much. Usually a $.50 state surcharge. Coon Rapids is $40 + 1.75% of the value of the electrical work being done.

[frazwood]

Officially, I'd recommend getting a permit.

A couple of years ago, I did almost complete renovation of a house. I replaced 95% of the plumbing, added a dozen new electrical circuits, added a bathroom, etc. I pulled every permit possible under the sun.

I was very happy with the state electrical inspector. He was thorough and he found a few mistakes that I had made. I was not as impressed with the city's inspectors. They were incredibly helpful when I called them with questions, but they didn't exactly scrutinize my work. During my rough-in inspection, I specifically had to point out various issues that I was unsure about to make sure that I did it correctly. During my final inspection, the inspector didn't look at any of the new kitchen plumbing and the bathroom inspection was literally him popping his head in the room and saying "yep, it's a bathroom".

I look at the permits as payment so that someone can double-check your work -- there's definitely value in that.

[Redlantern]

Fraz, I agree, a drive-by inspection is a slap in the face to the contractors and not really giving the residents of the municipality what they are paying for. The residents don't always know a san tee from a wye fitting so they are counting on the inspectors to keep the contractors honest and to do the job up to code.

[WallEYES]

Fraz

What city are you in? That inspector did not do his job. I am a plumbing/mechanical contractor and a plumbing/mechanical inspector in a very large metro suburb..... The difference with some inpectors is some didn't have any practical experience in the field and just know the minimum standards in the code(out of code books). Some cities hire combination inspectors to do building, plumbing and mechanical inspections in which some know building but not plumbing or mrchanical or vise versa, which I personally think is wrong. I think cities should hire licensed personal that are specialized in their fields......For the guy on the top of the thread...get your req'd permits, if you ever sold your house you would have to deal with it then....people that are looking for homes are not being stupid anymore along with the representing realator. Most will come into the building departments and look at your addressed file, your file contains everything when that home was originally built to it's current status on work performed and it is public record.... just my thoughts.

[sparkydm]

The purpose of having permits and inspections is to protect people, property, and property values. Electrical inspectors will not hesitate to make someone remove all sheetrock or other coverings in order to see how wiring was done. The average homeowner has no idea what hazards and pitfalls are associated with electrical and plumbing and heating. Far better to follow procedure then to maybe burn your house down with your family in it.

[frazwood]

Fraz, I agree, a drive-by inspection is a slap in the face to the contractors and not really giving the residents of the municipality what they are paying for. The residents don't always know a san tee from a wye fitting so they are counting on the inspectors to keep the contractors honest and to do the job up to code.

That's what is kind of troubling. I was not a contractor; I was merely an in-over-my-head DIY'er. I needed that help (that's why I forced them to do the inspection correctly).

[frazwood]

Fraz

What city are you in? That inspector did not do his job. I am a plumbing/mechanical contractor and a plumbing/mechanical inspector in a very large metro suburb.....

I was in Blaine. This actually involved two different inspectors (i.e, the rough-in and the final inspectors were different people).

Ironically, now that I think about it, we had another inspection for a new hot water heater and for new furnace/AC units. We hired contractors to do these installations.

The inspector for these was intense (this is a compliment, not a complaint). He found 3 or 4 subtle things wrong with the contractors' work. Actually, I asked him a bunch of questions about the work that I was doing and he was very helpful.