Safe release time??

[dudeness]

Hopefully nobody is pointing their finger saying "how would you feel, uh?"

I think that analogy is just used to make people think a little. I tend to agree with dtro, each fish is a little different just as people are. Long story short, if you respect the fish, other anglers, and the great musky program we have going in MN you ought to do your part to ensure safety of the fish.

I commend anybody that asks questions to improve their fish handling skills. We are all learning. No matter how many fish you've caught. That's why this sport is so great.

[DHanson]

Time out of the water is crucial. How many muskies have you handled, dtro?

[DTro]

DH, you are missing my whole point. It's not about Muskies.

But since you asked, I was catching Muskies on Vermilion when nobody even knew where Vermilion was That was before the digital age, so I don't even have any pictures nor did we rarely take one.

[Musky Buck]

I agree DH, we're fishing often times in the heat of the year, how long with aeration do your walleyes stay alive in your well during July ? Mine turn color almost immediately and generally are dead in short order no matter what I try to do to prevent that. I usually forgo the well with a cooler and ice. 4 months from tomorrow and it's go time.

[DHanson]

I understand your point, but you can't compare a muskie to a carp, or a muskie to a catfish. Just like it would be unfair to compare a rainbow trout to a catfish. If you have ever trout fished, you would know those fish can die just from touching one out of the water. The fact of the matter is, some species of fish are more fragile than others.

It's not about putting a fish on a pedestal and ranking a certain specie of fish higher than the other. It's about maximizing percentage of successful releases. A muskie might seem as a big tough fish to some, but they actually are a pretty weak fish when it comes to the amount of stress they can handle. The rainbow trout is the only other fish that I frequently catch that is more fragile than a muskie when it comes to successful catch and release.

Nobody here is saying that a muskie is better than any other fish. When I go out and catch other fish, I treat them with the same respect.

[muskydeceiver]

DH, you are missing my whole point. It's not about Muskies.

But since you asked, I was catching Muskies on Vermilion when nobody even knew where Vermilion was That was before the digital age, so I don't even have any pictures nor did we rarely take one.

Dtro,

If comparing a human to a fish doesn't make sense, why does it make sense to compare crappies in the winter to muskies in the summer? Different fish entirely and different temperature entirely. Also, just because there is some movement doesn't mean these fish are "alive" or would survive if put back in the water. If you plan on releasing a fish, why not do everything to make sure that fish survives. It only makes sense. I am all for getting a good picture or 2 and quick measurements, but sometimes you reach a point where you are putting the fish in danger. Is it a fish.... yep, but there is no point in releasing a fish if it isn't going to survive is there????

[scsavre]

I think most of us get the point of doing everything they can to do a timely release, no matter what the fish is. Muskies are fragile, it doesn't seem possible, but we have all seen it now.

I always hate the whole "compare an animal or fish to a human analogy", it just reminds me too much of PETA and other crazy activists getting ready to throw blood on a fur coat or something...

By the way i can hold my breath for almost 5 minutes....

[Shack]

I think most of us get the point of doing everything they can to do a timely release, no matter what the fish is. Muskies are fragile, it doesn't seem possible, but we have all seen it now.

I always hate the whole "compare an animal or fish to a human analogy", it just reminds me too much of PETA and other crazy activists getting ready to throw blood on a fur coat or something...

By the way i can hold my breath for almost 5 minutes....

scsavre, my exact thoughts as well. I had them posted yesterday, but did not want to seem like I was being a smarty pants. Plus dc followed up with another post.

Originally Posted By: muskydeceiver

I am all for getting a good picture or 2 and quick measurements, but sometimes you reach a point where you are putting the fish in danger. Is it a fish....

I believe that is what Dtro is trying to say.

I am sure even some of the best muskie fisherman have the catch and release down to seconds, with-out the fish even leaving the water. It maybe takes a 100 or 300 muskies to achieve this. But on the other hand, anyone catching a 100-300 muskies is also subject to a higher mortality rate even under the best landing and release conditions.

In other words, I am not going to say a fisherman catching even a 1000 muskies is putting a muskie population at rick, just like it is not my place to say anyone who takes extra steps during the release is causing harm to a muskie population. They are a fish, they are meant to be caught (Why would Muskies Inc. put in the dedication), and a release is still a release in my book. Preferably alive though.

[Musky Buck]

Hopefully some reading all of this get some pointers with releasing any fish they plan to release whatever the specie. Wouldn't it be great if everyone treated all of our natural resources with the respect they and it deserves ? Never going to happen so my plan is to educate as many young anglers as I can until my time is up and hopefully that will stick with them as they get older, tough to teach an old dog new tricks, however it isn't like anyone should give up trying.

[cjac]

Muskie = Ferrari: Imported/(stocked), flashy, fast, fragile (no bumpers), not durable, every wants one but few have the means, high maintenance & costly, seen as arrogant

Flathead/Sturgeon = F350 Dual Axle Crew Cab: Few have, durable (big grill gaurds), pull and pull an pull, not flashy, run forever with maintenance, appreciated by those that get it, seen as Redneck

Rainbow Trout = 1973 MG Ragtop Coupe: Unique, rare, high maintenance, "yuppie" crowd, associated with the Caribou Coffee crowd and seen as Elitist

Walleye/Bass = Chevy Trucks: Different sizes, overall dependable, still need scheduled maintenance, everybody has one or knows someone that does, seen as the "suburbs"

Panfish = Escort: Everyone has had one growing up, cheap, dime a dozen, always see them, general populus ownership

There's my non-PETA, non-human head dunking sensory analogy...... Each still requires a specific set of care and maintenance. Would you tow with the Ferrari? Would you drag race with the F350? Would you drive the MG in the winter? Would you pick up a hot date in the '86 Escort?

Point being this: All are DIFFERENT and require DIFFERENT handling in DIFFERENT situations.

Yikes, that group hug suggestion earlier isn't that bad of an idea..... We are all in a similar pool of being above the novice angler. Energies spent on internal debate should be channeled towards external influence and education.

[guideman]

Come on Dtro, it only been 20 years since there was a fishable population of muskie in Vermilion, they did have cameras back then.

Point is Muskie are not the same as cats or carp or any other fish. There are only a handful of lakes and rivers in the state that have naturaly sustainable populations. Even with stocking there are only slightly over 100 lakes that have Muskies, whereas almost every river, stream and mudhole in the state has some kind of catfish in it.

So lets not compare apples and oranges, all fish are not the same and some fish need some extra TLC. Muskie populations can crash in a very short time if they aren't protected. Just ask the people of Wisconsin, the former Muskie capital of the world.

"Ace"

[Sherpa]

I have noticed musky waters are posted at the landings to inform people that musky are present in that body of water. Why not post musky handling tips next to these signs to help inform more people on how to properly handle a musky?

Would it be going to far to require people to have the proper tools to release a musky while fishing musky waters?

[DTro]

Ace- I was only 15-16 at the time so my money was spent on maintaining my Cutlass and Mullet, not pictures

You are all still missing my point. I know the differences between fish species, my only beef was comparing fish and human feelings.

I'm on your side, I agree with everything else. I just hate the, "how would you feel?" response.

I'm heading up to my parents this weekend, I'll see if I can dig up some old Kodak 110 musky pictures

[mainbutter]

Getting at the root question, here's my take on it:

Musky aren't exactly the most durable of fish.

Safe release time is definitely under 5 minutes in my opinion. 2 minutes is probably just fine assuming ideal conditions for water temp, fight time, water oxygen levels, and the general health of the fish you caught. Many hardier fish species have a substantial safe release time, but I certainly am more gentle with musky than I am common carp or catfish, which are notoriously hardy out of water.

I've caught a few pike that required very careful unhooking for a successful release that went past the 2 minute mark. They were released swimming in shallow water. To the best of my knowledge, they weren't found floating the next day. This leads me to believe that they can survive longer than I give them credit for, and probably applies to musky as well.

I think it's probably to the benefit of both the fish and the fisherman to keep out-of-water time under a minute. That's pretty easy with a large net, unhook in the net, and a quick lift for a few out-of-water pictures. If it's a real trophy, a bump board for measuring is a very nice thing to have and only takes an extra 10-15 seconds to get a length.

It's kind of silly bickering over all of this though when we can pretty much all agree that the best release time is as short as you can get it, and that practice makes perfect. Fish prepared, and experience is key for successful releases.

[Nick Kuhn]

I have noticed musky waters are posted at the landings to inform people that musky are present in that body of water. Why not post musky handling tips next to these signs to help inform more people on how to properly handle a musky?

Would it be going to far to require people to have the proper tools to release a musky while fishing musky waters?

Requiring release tools would be going too far. However posting release info at the launch seems like a good idea. I see a lot of launches that have "practicing CPR is encouraged" but I don't think I've ever seen one that had instructions for a good CPR.

[john skarie]

So I guess the important thing here is to not sound like Peta??

Maybe we should all start walking around kicking cats and dogs to show how beneath us animals are??

Again talking about the physical limitations of fish is not putting human emotions on them. If you think about that for a minute that should be obvious.

JS

[Comit 2]

Well I didn't read all of this so If someone said; It all depends on how cool or hot the water it was taken from. Well I agree with them. Never longer then nessary.

[eyehead]

We have some of the best Musky waters in the country right here in Minnesota......So, lets all do are part to make sure that continues....Enough said

[jonesen]

I see a lot of guides on the saturday morning shows useing Boga grips, mostly when releasing fish that have flashaboo in there chops.

How do you feel about the use of boga's for releasing fish.

good, bad or just another tool.

[Shawn Kellett]

I'm not a fan of boga's for muskies. I've heard of many muskies and pike having broken jaw bones after anglers use them. They were designed for saltwater fish that have a much shorter length per size of jaw bone.

[dcmusky]

It has nothing to do with feelings or compairing human emotions to fishes emotions(I don't think fish have them). Its a biological comparison and commonsense, If any animal does any stressful excersize in order for them to fuel their muscles and get O2 to their blood to oxigenate the body ALL animals need the extra O2. Hence increased heart rate, fish get their O2 from water so it would seem that time out of the water would be worse for a stressed out fish that has fought for a couple of minutes. Just like if you ran around the block and the put your head under water. No emotions just a biological fact, you could say the samething for anything in the animal kingdom.

[scsavre]

Someone should just reach out to someone who knows the make up and biology of a muskie. See how much oxygen a fish needs and how long they can on average hold there breath.

THis is just dragging on, i think everyone is agreeing to release a fish as fast as possible.

[dcmusky]

It's the PETA comparisons that are really ticking me off that's all. I think their an extreamist group and I'm sick of the comparisons to people that CHOOSE to C&R, as Peta accually thinks less of the C&R crowd than they do of the catch and keepers. If I ever start refering to muskies as "sea kittens" start to worry.

[Jameson]

WOW, as a hunter, and former 100% catch and release guy, I find it hard to believe that I sorta agree with the PETA folks. My thinking now is that I should only be fishing if I intend to keep SOME fish. Weather that be looking to keep only a trophy, or looking to keep certain eater size fish, I won't go fishing anymore without looking to keep something. Often I still end up not keeping anything, but that is no longer my intent when I start.

Now as far as a safe release time...if I am at all concerned about the fish making it I won't take a picture, so that means I rarely take a fish picture anymore unless it is swimming through the spear-hole. Not taking a pic certainly decreases release time and I encourage others to do the same. Of course those pics of fish as they are being released IN THE WATER are pretty sweet!

[DTro]

Asking someone "how would you feel" is 100 percent based on emotions. Reread this thread and you will see where the emotional factor came into play.