Dissolving hooks?

[pike doctor]

Just wanted to hear some thoughts on cutting the line and leaving hooks in fish that are hooked deep.

Caught a 20lb Northern not to long ago and he swallowed a number 2 treble hook. We cut the line and sent him back.

Do they really disolve the hooks quickly? Can they live with hooks in their throat?

I feel pretty uneducated when it comes to this.

[thedeadsea]

I know the hooks will dissolve, but don't think they dissolve fast enough if the fish is hooked in the stomach or throat.

Steve

[TSchultz]

There has been some research done on this considering muskies. It is more or less considered a myth now that the hooks will disolve in a fish's mouth/stomach. They probably did back in the old days, but with the new and improved steels that they use today hooks are just too well made. In the case of muskies every hook that was left in the stomach of a fish resulted in almost certain delayed mortality.

[AaronM]

There have been numerous studies on this. I cannot recall the exact article (Musky Hunter if I remember correctly) but the study found that every fish with a treble ended up dying within a year of the hook being embedded. Most fish survived the first few weeks, but most were dead in the first few months and the final survivors eventually died within a year timeframe.

Here is a study on single hook mortality:

Effects of a Single-hook Live Bait Angling Technique on Muskellunge Survival

Terry L. Margenau

Use of live bait is a popular method to fish muskellunge during fall months. However, muskellunge anglers have expressed concern that certain live bait techniques may cause muskellunge mortality to be unacceptably high. This study monitored the survival of adult muskellunge (31.5 to 42.3 in) for a period up to one year after being angled using a single-hook live bait rig where muskellunge were allowed to swallow the bait prior to hook set. Over a two-year period a total of 40 muskellunge (20 fish/year) were field transferred into a 1-acre lined hatchery pond in early September. After allowing muskellunge several weeks to acclimate to the hatchery pond, angling was initiated using live suckers (approximately 12 in) with a 10/0 single hook attached to the suckers snout and suspended from a bobber. A total of 22 muskellunge were hooked with the single-hook rig. Hooked fish were landed as quickly as possible, inspected for hooking location and injury, and released after cutting the leader. Average time from a strike until hook set averaged 17 minutes. Play-time (hook set to landing) averaged less than one minute, and handling time averaged approximately 5 minutes. Immediate mortality (first 24 h after hooking) of muskellunge was zero. Short-term delayed mortality (24 h until ice formation; approximately 45 d) was 22%. Cumulative mortality (hooking until one year) was 83%. Results from this study have several implications for management agencies and anglers. First, all fish hooked appeared healthy after being caught and released, thus leading an angler to believe that the release was successful. Second, delayed and long-term mortality appeared related to the extent of internal damage suffered from the hook. Finally, while mortality to one year is unacceptable for fisheries that rely upon successful release, not all fish perished. Those fish surviving to one year maintained good relative weight values and appeared externally healthy.

[AaronM]

The above article is a tad bit long but it is well worth the read. Probably the best accepted practice for nothern/muskie fishing is to use a quick strike rig. For those that are unfamiliar, this rig uses two treble hooks (do a GOOGLE search for photos or for more information.) With this rig, it is implicit that the fisherman sets the hook as soon as the bobber goes under. Many people who use a single treble or single hook often wait for the bobber to go under, giving the fish "time" to take down the bait. This method usually leaves the fish with hooks embedded deep in the throat or in the stomach.

Some people have turned to large circle hooks and have had success wtih them, but I prefer to use the quick strike.

[flyfisher03]

The stomach acid in a fish is somewhere between ph levels of 2 and 4. Therefore you should be able to see how fast the hooks dissolve in various acids from lemon juice to a can of cola or even tomato juice.

[Jameson]

...Average time from a strike until hook set averaged 17 minutes....and handling time averaged approximately 5 minutes...

Um, yeah, how many of us wait 17 minutes to set the hook?!!!! And then handle the fish for 5 minutes before releasing it?!!!!!

Most of these fish would end up with ripped internal organs due to waiting 17 minutes to set the hook. If the hook is embedded somewhere in the mouth and you are unable to get it unhooked, the fish will likely be ok. If the hook is embedded in the throat or past it the fish is likely to die sooner than if it wasn't ever hooked.

[&JAG]

What about Walleye and swallowed hooks?

[Duffman]

I've extracted a 3/0 wormhook from a bass's bunghole, and also a a fireball jig from a walleyes bunghole. I think in time they would have made it out on their own, but I just helped speed up the process.

Neither bit of hardware was all that "dissolved", in fact they were in good shape. Maybe not so much with treble hooks, but I think single hooks can make it thru the digestive system with out too much damage.

[AaronM]

Originally Posted By: fishingfrenzy

...Average time from a strike until hook set averaged 17 minutes....and handling time averaged approximately 5 minutes...

Um, yeah, how many of us wait 17 minutes to set the hook?!!!! And then handle the fish for 5 minutes before releasing it?!!!!!

Most of these fish would end up with ripped internal organs due to waiting 17 minutes to set the hook. If the hook is embedded somewhere in the mouth and you are unable to get it unhooked, the fish will likely be ok. If the hook is embedded in the throat or past it the fish is likely to die sooner than if it wasn't ever hooked.

You're looking too far into it. Point of the study, deeply hooked fish DO NOT survive at a rate where it makes sense to cut hooks. However, I do believe that small hooks do have a better chance of passing through as mentioned above. I also believe that every effort should be made to remove hooks as much as possible before release. The muskie guys have it down with the use of Knipex, cutting hooks can definitely save fish if they are hooked in undesireable locations.

[Itsa Pole Bender]

Good Topic.......but I did have to chuckle a little bit about the original posters name given the question asked.

"Pike Doctor".

[candiru]

I know I read in In-Fisherman (8 or so years ago) that it is better to remove a hook than cut the line on deep hooked fish. This primarily dealt with walleyes. The newer hooks do not dissolve and can block the digestive track.

[Bullwinkled]

Two years ago I learned to remove deep hooks by carefully going through gills with needle nose, getting a hold of hook close to bend and rotating the hook, it generally pops right out. Works on bass, walleye, have not tried northern yet as I very seldom get a deep hook on them as I get them while jigging for walleye or bass.

Anyway it pays to learn this technique as it removes the cut the line need unless the hook is so deep you cant see it.

[My_Key]

Originally Posted By: fishingfrenzy

...Average time from a strike until hook set averaged 17 minutes....and handling time averaged approximately 5 minutes...

Um, yeah, how many of us wait 17 minutes to set the hook?!!!! And then handle the fish for 5 minutes before releasing it?!!!!!

Most of these fish would end up with ripped internal organs due to waiting 17 minutes to set the hook. If the hook is embedded somewhere in the mouth and you are unable to get it unhooked, the fish will likely be ok. If the hook is embedded in the throat or past it the fish is likely to die sooner than if it wasn't ever hooked.

I think the times are mistaken. I haven't caught a muskie, but I've caught enough fish in my life time to know "Play-time (hook set to landing) averaged less than one minute" is not likely when the fish is longer than 40". Something tells me they goofed and the hookset was within a minute of the bobber going down and the fight averaged 17 minutes. 5 minutes of handling was excessive, but I'm sure they took measurements, weighed them, tagged them, stuck a probe up the fish's anus and such.

I wonder what the mortality rate would be if they lowered the handling time to 2 minutes??

[Big-Al]

My read on this study was that they intentionally let the fish have it for 17 minutes so they knew that it would be in the belly of the fish.

[CRBass]

Bullwinkled is right, going through the gills, grasping the hook high and popping it out works great. Hook cutters work great on muskies and northerns. Can go down the mouth or through the gills. Between these two techniques, can't remember the last time I couldn't get a hook out. Don't have to buy Kwipex. Can get some for $8-10 at hardware stores. It's pretty common to fight a muskie for a minute or less with typical muskie gear.

[My_Key]

Now that I read it better, I think you're right. I still can't believe they hoisted in the fish that fast.

[NCLaker]

Good stuff .... I dont' think it mentions this but, I assume that all fish that were not hooked (control group) in this study were healthy and alive after the 1-2 year period. If not I think that would have to factor into their mortality rate calculations.

Either way, point is still clear. Thanks for the info!

[opsirc]

wish I would have see this topic a week ago. hooked a 24" eye on LOW that had the hook deep in the throat, might have been able to get the hook thru the gills. wound up just cutting the line and sending it back down the hole.