Who would be in favor or APR in Managed or IH areas? Why?

[John478]

I would not be in favor of ARs or APRs. I lot of my reasons why have already been stated so I will not repeat them.

In another thread on this subject someone said in some survey that about 50% of the hunters where in favor of APRs. If that’s the case and they practice what they preach then I would think the number of mature bucks would grow with out it being mandatory.

I’ve let a number of small bucks walk but there’s been years when the only think that has given me a shoot is a small buck and I’ve taken it. I want it to be my choice. I think it even makes me feel better when it’s my choice to let him walk and not forced on me.

I’ll never forget the first deer my son shot after 3 or 4 years of hunting. It was a small fork horn. You couldn’t smack the smile off his face for about 3 days. And now 10 years later he’s letting the small ones walk.

[BRULEDRIFTER]

Hunting as a means to feed your family is all but a thing of the past.

Only because you choose it to be! How come we are the only people that are so quick to forget about our herritage?

[InTheNorthwoods]

Originally Posted By: InTheNorthwoods

Hunting as a means to feed your family is all but a thing of the past.

Only because you choose it to be! How come we are the only people that are so quick to forget about our herritage?

I am not forgetting about my heritage or the states heritage. But for all but a very small number of hunters it is not financially prudent to use hunting as a sustainable means of feeding ones family.

I eat lots of wildgame annually, and I use it as a part of my families regular diet, but the cost of my hunting for that wildgame is far greater than if I were to go to the grocery store and buy meat.

Obviously there are exceptions to everything, but for people who has very limited resources, hunting is not usually the prudent economical choice.

Try adding up your direct hunting costs and determine the cost per pound of the meat. I am guessing you can buy meat much cheaper per pound than by hunting for it (and that you will forget many expenses that went into the hunt).

Whether this is a good thing or bad, I don't care to debate, its just a sign of the changing times.

[BRULEDRIFTER]

Well, considering all one NEEDS to hunt deer is a firearm of legal caliber, shells for said firearm, some warm clothes (which any and every Minnesotan needs anyway), a blaze orange vest and hat, a $27 dollar license, and possibly some money for gas (depending on where you live).

I'd say if one were to harvest any deer at all and did their own processing, they'd come out ahead after a couple of deer, tops!

[Bear55]

Brule that is easy to say but how many people only spend that much? I would guess very few. The fact is we all spend a lot of $$$ on our outdoor activities.

[InTheNorthwoods]

Well, considering all one NEEDS to hunt deer is a firearm of legal caliber, shells for said firearm, some warm clothes (which any and every Minnesotan needs anyway), a blaze orange vest and hat, a $27 dollar license, and possibly some money for gas (depending on where you live).

I'd say if one were to harvest any deer at all and did their own processing, they'd come out ahead after a couple of deer, tops!

Again, with the bare essentials and with everything in your favor, you might be able to make it work. That is the bare bones in the best of circumstances...

Then start to add in the value of your time.

All I am saying is that hunting is a recreational and management activity first and foremost in today's world.

[BLACKJACK]

Quote:

I've been on both sides of this one, I'll be a reader and not a typer.

Yeah right

Hey this site is for posting and debating opinions, contrary to some who think you should shut up if your opinion is different than theres!!! Keep on typing!!! I do!!!

Have a good weekend all!!! I'm off to go pheasant hunting tomorrow!!!

[BRULEDRIFTER]

Time in the woods hunting with family and friends = PRICELESS!

Enough with this, I was only trying to make the point you don't need all the latest and greatest gear to hunt deer. Sure we all spend more then we should, but it's because we can. For me, I make up some of that cost by not having to buy beef most of the year. If I have to pass on a deer because it doesn't have enough points, suddenly I cut back on other expenses because I have bigger grocery bills to deal with.

Back to APR's........

[ntrider]

I am not forgetting about my heritage or the states heritage. But for all but a very small number of hunters it is not financially prudent to use hunting as a sustainable means of feeding ones family.

I eat lots of wildgame annually, and I use it as a part of my families regular diet, but the cost of my hunting for that wildgame is far greater than if I were to go to the grocery store and buy meat.

Obviously there are exceptions to everything, but for people who has very limited resources, hunting is not usually the prudent economical choice.

Try adding up your direct hunting costs and determine the cost per pound of the meat. I am guessing you can buy meat much cheaper per pound than by hunting for it (and that you will forget many expenses that went into the hunt).

Whether this is a good thing or bad, I don't care to debate, its just a sign of the changing times.

[John478]

2010 Minnesota imposes APRs

2020 Minnesota #1 in big bucks

All the big outfitters buy as much of the best hunting land they can

All the farmers realize they can make good money leasing there land to hunters

Careful what you wish for

Texas for example: Know for its big bucks (big racks the deer are actually pretty small)

My bother in law who’s lived in Texas for the past 25+ year says that most the land there is privately owned very little public land. If you want to hunt deer there you better be willing to pay big bucks (pardon the pun) He pays 2k a year to hunt about a 1000 acres of land that he shares with 25 other hunters

Oh he cant bring is brother in law to hunt there with him either

[TimR]

All I am saying is that hunting is a recreational and management activity first and foremost in today's world.

I question your assertion.

In many rural areas of this state, and neighboring ones, that venison is an appreciated and needed addition to the table. The cost of a 30-30 shell is minimal, and the time-depreciated cost of blaze is low. Pa's 30-30 knocks'em down as well as it did 30 years ago.

Certainly, the cross section of individuals that participate on this forum is not being assumed to be representative of the deer hunters of this state, is it?

Deer and Deer Hunting sells an idea, an image. That image might reflect the most vocal deer hunters, but it certainly is missing the mark for many lower-income and older hunters.

Tim

[Getanet]

I don't hunt managed or IH areas, so I don't have an informed opinion one way or the other on the specific topic of this thread.

I would definitely be opposed to state-wide APR. I'm able to make my own choice about what I will and won't shoot. It's particularly frustrating when private land hunters call for these rule changes. In terms of quality of the hunt, they already have what most public land hunters can only dream of.

[ntrider]

I don't hunt managed or IH areas, so I don't have an informed opinion one way or the other on the specific topic of this thread.

I would definitely be opposed to state-wide APR. I'm able to make my own choice about what I will and won't shoot. It's particularly frustrating when private land hunters call for these rule changes. In terms of quality of the hunt, they already have what most public land hunters can only dream of.

and then get upset when we hunt public land and get too close to their fence line...

[Bear55]

after licenses and paying someone to process i came in at $1.48 lb...don't know where you buy grocery but i know i can't get steaks, roasts and ground for that price at a store???

If it were only that simple, you are leaving out a great many things.

[ntrider]

Originally Posted By: ntrider

after licenses and paying someone to process i came in at $1.48 lb...don't know where you buy grocery but i know i can't get steaks, roasts and ground for that price at a store???

If it were only that simple, you are leaving out a great many things.

not for me i'm not...i don't buy new clothes every year and all the gadgets...my buddies rip on me because my pants and jacket have been ripped so many times by fences and what not...now my a couple of my buddies, lets just say at this point in the game it would be cheaper to buy a cattle farm...they have every gadget in the book...

[vister]

I'm game for APR! however, i have no kids of my own, and i know by looking at pictures on here and outdoor news of proud dads with their even prouder son/daughter latched on to the first set of horns they've ever shot, makes me think we shouldn't have apr. man, some of those kids look happy. i can only imagine how excited dad would be having junior with his/her first kill! i was real excited when my fiance shot her 9 pointer this year, almost more excited than her!

i would hate to someday take my kid hunting for the first time, only to have a fork step out 30 yards away, and tell junior he cant shoot it. how could someone deny a youngster their first buck?

but hopefully, someday i'll have kids, and maybe they'll have been hunting with mom and dad enough to know that we're big buck hunters!! and thats what we shoot!!

Whatever happens, today, or tomorrow, i will do my part on APR simply by letting that spike, fork, or basket walk by. and thats an easy decision i've made.

[ntrider]

like what vister said...i have kids...not hunting age but cant wait for them to get their first deer...i am not opposed to apr as long as the opportunity is there for does for us that really enjoy venison...wish there could be some easy fix for youth hunters that r trying for their first deer...have ideas but like all could easily be abused without one knowing...

[Arctic]

I would NOT be in favor. I hunt in a once intensive gone mgmt area (180) and there is still ZERO guarentee that you will even see A deer, let alone be able to pick and choose from a herd.

Being the area I hunt is so large and the are so many thick deep swamps for deer to hide and never been shot at, I know there are no shortages of trophy bucks. HUNTING them and getting one the "old fashioned" way are the way it should ALWAYS be done.

I live and hunt in Area 180 and tend to agree that APRs would not be all that effective in this area, or any other area where it is often miles between roads, access is tough, and deer numbers fluctuate wildly, mainly due to winter-kill.

APRs would be very effective in those areas where few bucks live beyond 1 1/2 or 2 1/2 years due to high hunter numbers, easy access, but with good habitat to grow big bucks. Far NW Minnesota east of the Red River Valley, and the SE bluff country could produce a lot of massive racks, if given the chance.

[96trigger]

Every youngster that I have seen with a deer is happy, regardless of horns or not. Yes its great to see kids with deer, but they need to learn their are guidelines to follow also. Remember that we are talking about areas where the deer population is pretty high. Seeing multiple deer on a day is not uncommon. I have stated before. These young kids, are often the ones that are leading the way in QDM. They will also be the ones that will be pushing to make it regulated.

I will ask this question again. Of the people that are pushing for this, how many of you think that they are over 30? I am going to bet that most are not, or are right around that age.

If you think that leased land isn't already happening, you are wrong. Let me ask you this, why are all these lands getting leased up. Not just small chunks, but multiple farms? Do you know why, because the outfitters want to control as much land as possible to manage it for big bucks. Did you ever think that maybe if there was more progress being made in developing older bucks, that maybe they wouldn'f feel the need to lease so much land?

Our reputation for big deer is already there. The triangle of land east of I35 and west of the Missippi river is already known for big bucks. Last year a 200 inch buck was arrowed, this year a possible world record 8. What we are talking about is giving the young bucks a chance to live past 1.5 years.

The DNR already tells us how many ducks to shoot, they tell us that in the spring we can only shoot tom turkeys and that we can't shoot hen pheasants in the fall. Where is the outrage over that? As humans it is natural for us to fear change. I say change it, and lets see what happens. Nothing lasts forever, if its [PoorWordUsage], it will go back.

[deerminator]

Not to get off track but there are still meat hunters who hunt for subsistence and cost effectiveness. Consider that someone in an intensive harvest area took three deer, a mature buck and two yearling does. Say you get about 65 pounds of boneless meat off that buck. Then you get 42 pounds off each mature doe for a total of 149 pounds. If your license and bonus tags are $27 and $14 times two, your total cost minus the bullets or arrows is $55, or $.37 cents a pound. That's if you process yourself and don't include the basic hunting clothes, gun, bow, etc., which are sunken costs. Even if you did pay a processor, in my case, spending $60 per deer, you'd be at $1.57 a pound, which is about a buck a pound cheaper than ground beef much of the year.

[buckhunter21]

Im all for APR's but would prefer if there was another way to go about increasing the number of mature bucks. I do get where the people who just want the venison regardless of the sex would be upset by this but I would be willing to bet that if a majority of these hunters had a doe and small buck walk out at the same time they are going to take the buck, not saying everyone will. Why not take the doe and give the buck another chance? If APRs were in effect they would have to take the doe and let the buck run off, in a couple years down the road if the same scenario happened theres alot better chance it would be a doe and a mature buck stepping out.

Another thing that really works me up is when I here about people shooting 2, 3, even 4 bucks in a year and most or all of them are yearlings. Yes you have every right to take the first buck but why do you need to shoot one for your wife, daughter, son, whoevers tags they can get ahold of? Use your own tags and let the people in your party get a chance to fill their own tag, if you want more venison then hold off for a doe with a bonus tag.

I can see where both sides are coming from on this and unfortunately one side is going to be dissapointed either way it goes. As far as I know every state that has imposed APRs has had an opposition to it at first but as a few years past it always gains approval once people start to see how big of a difference it makes. I just dont understand why somebody wouldnt want to shoot a mature buck every couple years instead of maybe once or twice in a lifetime, with APRs yea maybe those "strictly meat hunters" will have to sacrafice pulling the trigger on that small buck for a year or two but once it starts taking effect the small bucks that would have been shot will be replaced by more mature bucks, and a new crop will replace them every year after that and the cycle will continue.

[mabr]

Vister im glad you said what Ive been thinking and typed at least 2 times today but ended up deleting.

Dont people see the potentialwe could all have? Look at where the good bucks are coming from THE SE part of the state. Yeah i know there a few that come from all over BUT like Vister said look at the 2 deer he mentioned. This is because of QDM being implemented in certain areas by the people hunting there. They still have deer imagine that! I dont hunt in zone 3, But i do hunt 2 seperate intensive harvest areas and if you cant kill a Doe in one of these, your doing something wrong, even if on GM property!!!

Vister, or whoever would be intrested. What would you think of starting a deer hunting Club and leasing the land like the outfitters are doing? I know another guy mentioned Texas. Well Ive been in these types of hunt clubs many times down south and they work. Im not rich by any means but i can justify this cost because of my passion for deer hunting. I'm sure it gonna pi-- some off that I dare bring up leasing land to hunt on. But with the oposition to change what choice do we have if we would like the chance to harvest that once in a life time buck!!

I hunt family owned private land, even then the little bucks dont make it. The neighbors, the drivers, the road hunters whoever it is, these deer are not making it through till the next year. Its brown its down mentality!!Even in lottery areas its happening. The question goes out to the party HOW MANY DOES TAGS WE HAVE? Ok shoot it and we'll figure out who needs to tag what after the fact!!!

Sorry for the rant but im tired of the way things have always been. Im gonna say or ask what I know alot on here have already said to themselves in reading some of these posts learn how to hunt!!!! If you want to go to deer camp to party, do the family thing or whatever then fine do it, But dont blame anyone but yourself when you dont fill your tag!!!The deer are there!!! Mybe not like 3-5 years ago but they are there. Maybe im wrong but going into your stand the day before opener and checking it to make sure its safe is not all there is to deer hunting.

Ill stop now im sure ive pi--ed alot of people off already. Im gonna be like MuskyBuck and read for awhile after I get home from hunting tomorrow and the rest of the remaining open season.

[HNTNBUX]

I am not in favor of antler point restrictions at all. I consider myself a trophy hunter and most times I just look at a deer and know if I want it. I don't count the points very often or even have time in some cases, I see the deer make my decision and shoot or pass. For someone less experienced hunters I see way to much potential for problems.

I don't like the idea of "young" hunters, not new hunters, having to pass on small bucks. I don't want to see all the year and a half old eight and ten point bucks being shot, they have way to much potential. I don't want to see six point bucks laying in the woods unclaimed.

What I would like to see and probobly never will in MN is limited buck and doe tags broken down by permit area and eliminate party hunting for bucks. If you are a meat hunter and don't "eat the horns" you and your party can deer hunt and fill some doe tags. When you draw a buck tag and want to shoot that spike go ahead, but Uncle Bob does not get to do it for you.

[Red Miller]

The idea gets a thumbs down from me as well. It might be a good concept for private land and hunting preserves but not the general public especially on public land. There are too many regs already. Too much potential for problems and wanton waste. Last I checked, we call it deer hunting - not rack hunting. Why do some think its their right to take a natural resource that belongs to all and alter it for their own personal preference. Trophies are trophies because they are uncommon and rare. Lets keep it that way.

[Getanet]

"But with the oposition to change what choice do we have if we would like the chance to harvest that once in a life time buck!!"

I guess that might be one of the biggest philosophical gaps between between those that are for and against this issue. Those of us against probably feel that you already have the chance to harvest a once in a life time buck. But that's just it, once or twice in a lifetime. Those wanting these rules would like that opportunity every few years. Then the question becomes at what point hunters will be satisfied? And I think we all know the answer is probably never.