Good Middle of the road or a great deal on a muzzle loader

[picksbigwagon]

I have a buddy in Iowa and we were talking about getting his dad started in Muzzleloader hunting. I know absolutely nothing about them and neither does my friend but he wants to get one for his dad for his birthday. WHat is a good middle of the road brand? I noticed Cabela's had some deals going, you can use a scope in Iowa so I am sure he would look at package deals.

Pat is a crack shot so he would be taking shots at over 100 yards, especially with a scope. What models could he look at that use smokeless powder? Is that even legal in Iowa?

Thanks for the help

[Jim916]

I have a T/C Triumph. They go around 450-500 for the gun. A friend has the same gun and he shot a buck @ 200 yards last year with his and a scope.

[96trigger]

Any T/C will be good, I think for the most part, you get what you pay for. I bought the Remington genesis two years ago, they don't sell them anymore but they were basically made by traditions. I really like that gun, very accurate. I don't know what you are going to get if you buy the scope that comes with it. I am never sold on those package deals. I think they charge you more and you get less. I would spend the money on a nicer rifle and then look for a scope later or try and borrow one for this year.

I saw that cabelas had their brand rifle for sale for like $89, it was either made by traditions or CVA, can't remember. I thought that one looked pretty good for the price.

[Bear55]

I picked up a TC Triumph last year, I haven't hunted with it yet but it shoots great even with open sights and is very easy to clean.

[picksbigwagon]

That is what we are looking for, something easy to clean....I should have mentioned that as well. That removable plug thing looks pretty slick.....

Pat might not want a scope, I just saw the ad for Cabelas and they had package deals....Keep the names a rolling

[vister]

for a lot less than a T/C, you can get a CVA optima pro. fluted barrels, thumbhole stock, and the bergarra barrel, probably the most accurate muzzy barrel made!

t/c fans believe the managed recoil system is the cats meow. well, any muzzy loaded with 100 grains of powder is going to kick less than most deer calibered rifles. so i think the managed recoils, or whatever they call it is an uneccessary inovation, but hey, thats just me. and the speed breech on t/c's, would be nice to have, but i only remove the breech plug when i'm cleaning my gun, which takes a while the way it is. plus, i'm in no hurry to clean them either, if ya know what i mean! theres nothing exciting about it

[Swap Buck]

I second the CVA Optima Pro. I think I paid right around 300 and it has been a great gun. I can hit a 6in paper plate at a 100yds 3 out of 3 shots with open sights (now when a deer of a lifetime is 75yds broadside standing still, I missed. But not the guns fault). Anyways, GREAT gun for the money. I also have a entry level Knight Smokepole that has also been a good learning gun for less the 200.

[Dave S]

Picks,

I noticed you mentioned smokless powder also. I'm not really up on muzzleloader details, but I think Savage Arms was the first to release a ML for use with smokeless powder.

Like I said, I don't kow for sure. Others can comment more about the smokeless vs. black powder.

I was seriously considering the T/C Triumph as well, but I have one of those bosses who seems to think I need to get rid of a couple other guns before I plan to purchase a ML. Now that fur season (Fox Season) is upon us, I can't part with the Contender.

[TrophyEyes]

Don't buy anything but a T/C. First of all, T/C are by far the most reliable gun out there. In a group of 11 guys that have been muzzleloading for over 15 years we have tried everything and by now everyone of us has a T/C (or 3). I would also comment on T/C's customer service. If you ever have any issues (fiberoptic sights breaking, your breach plug is stuck, or other opperater error issues) T/C will not only fix the problem for you, but it won't cost you a dime. They do right by their customers and that is rare these days. If you buy a T/C you will have it for years and years. We all shoot the Encores, but now a days they are getting a bit pricy. I did see a T/C BoneCollector model with a scope for around $550. I have seen the Omegas for around $275. Bot guns are great. I actually think the Bonecollector version is a Triumph spin off. My Encore is accurate out to 200 yards, and I have even dropped a deer at 150 yards open sights with that. I shoot a .45cal, but I would suggest a .50cal.

Note: the quickest way to ruin any muzzleloader is to not clean it correctly. That you cannot fix very easily.

[ChrisT]

I have a traditions pursuit II with a speed breach and I love it. Very easy to clean and take apart and vert accurate. I purchased this gun after shooting an Omega for a couple years. To me, it is much easier to maintain. Personally, get your hands on as many guns as possible and find one that shoulders nicely and is easy to clean(anyone will tell you easy cleaning is very important). Good luck, and enjoy.

[Archerysniper]

Well today I brought out my uncles .300 whetherby mag out to the range to sight in for him for elk hunting he is handicaped and it's to hard for him with two prosthetic legs so I got it dialed in for him at 150 meters and we had some time I pulled out the omega and I have only shot it at 50 yards and was told by my friend too be 3" high at 50 so that is where it been since I bought it 6 years ago so with 150 grains of triple 7 pellets and a 250 grain hornady ballistic tip at 150 yards open sights it was three shots in a 3" group 1" high so I was going to put a scope on it but think I'll just stick to open sights. I also shot one round with 100 grains of powder to see the differance and that one was 3" low at 150 meters.

[92python]

I have a Thompson Omega and have no complaints. Not sure if that is middle of the road. If I were to look for a more inexpensive ML I would research an NEF product.

Make sure whatever you choose shoots Blackhorn 209 well. All the muzzy geeks say that is the bomb. Have a can but haven't tried it yet.

[vister]

i bought the blackhorn 209 as well, but haven't tried it yet. however, u can only shoot 120 grains of that stuff. its NOT blackpowder! its a substitute. its kinda like watered down smokeless powder. it pushes my bullets out past 2000 feet per second, or at least thats what they claim. kinda excited to shoot it, see how the stuff works. i've heard 100 grains of that bucks more than 150 grains blackpowder. we'll see

[cementhead21]

I would 2nd the idea of shouldering up as many of the ML as he can. I was dead set on the TC , with the speed breach, but every time i picked it up it just didnt feel right. I found a CVA optima pro with a thumbhole stock in 45.cal and it just fits me right.the shop where i bought it at had a sales person arguew with me that i wanted to have a 50. cal not the 45.cal.. untill i pulled out the balstic chart in a power belt package. he then told me that the chart cant be right... do some home work and buy what is the best fit ,,thats what i did and am very happy with it . It was less that half the price of thwe TC to boot.